Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
This grinds my gears. I clearly remember ads in the past recessions, esp when I was younger, for food stamps/ WIC. It was the only reason I knew food stamps/WIC exsisted. The push is to make sure the folks with kids get their kids fed. Malnourished/hungry kids are stupid kids. Stupid kids don't do any of us any good if they are in schools or if they flunk out.
In a simplistic world it would be lovely to shame those who could be working. Do people game the system? absolutely. Are those people embarrassed? Absolutely not. They get a jazz everytime they get something for free and they are usually in a group of people who think the shame is a joke.
In the real world there are families with kids who need assistance to eat. Parents who are working, sometimes 2 jobs each , still can't afford to take care of the kids. Not the folks with the manicured nails, nice cars, big TVs. Real people who can't make it. Should they be held up to ridicule or shame? How about we just figure out how to catch the folks who are committing fraud instead of trying to shame people who are already trying. The shame thing isn't going to deter those you want to deter.
Anyone remember the big push to root out the fraudulent folks for welfare/food stamps? What ever happened to that. Where I was it was a huge campaign with a drop a dime kind of thing. They made big news with it but haven't heard that is years.
When you remove the stigma from social welfare programs, you create an environment of acceptance of a certain standard of living. I'm not sayin' "Don't feed the kiddies." I'm sayin' "Make sure that people don't like being on the government dole." As for rooting out fraudulent activity: Make it a priority.
Oh boy, here we go!! You cold hearted, no sympathy havin, no empathy possessin, racist, ageist, sexist, anti-immigrant, billionaire lovin, corporate welfare mongerin, poor hatin, child starvin, pro-frozen granny, dog food as a staple, back in the day, slave ownin bistard.
Nobody can succeed in this country unless they were born into a billionaire family, any lack of success is first to be blamed on the rich and then on the lack of a government program or law. Be it a C- on a 3rd grade test or the failing of a small business, there is somebody to blame, some law that needs to be introduced and somebody that needs to pay for it.
Motivation? You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Yeah, I'm an arsehole for having higher expectations of others than they have for themselves. Maybe there should be a law prohibiting the giving of something in exchange for nothing.......
I have been behind someone using food stamps in line at the grocery store many, many times. Every time, and I seriously mean every time, they bought **** food with them, just like was discussed earlier in this thread. No vegis, juice, milk, bread, etc., it was pop, potato chips, candy and TV dinners at best, sometimes they didn't even buy food with them, which I didn't think was possible.
I worked as a cashier at a supermarket in West Duluth my freshman year in college. While it wasn't as bad as you have experienced, it wasn't much better. I'd put the percentage of food stamp recipients that actually buy "good food" at about 10-15%. This number went down when said food stamp recipient had more than one kid with them.
Then you have a very selective memory. I remember food stamp commercials from the 80's during saturday morning cartoons.
Or maybe it was because I wasn't big on Saturday morning cartoons. That seems to be a poor use of advertising dollars, considering kids can't sign up for food stamps. Obviously the person behind said ad campaign wasn't a marketing major.
I can remember TONS of government ad drives in the 70's and 80's for all sorts of "do gooder" programs: food stamps, "hire a vet," that crying Indian, etc. Some of them may have been NYC ads and not federal.
There was a time when there were civic virtues
other than "I'm alright Jack keep your hands offa my stack."
But of course we can't have that, because gummint is bad, m'okay?
A nice history of the food stamp program, put together by the fanatically liberal Bush administration:
Political theory is a wonderful thing, but sometimes it must be tempered by actual realities... frankly, some of you guys are talking out of your rears.
I don't care WHO instituted WHAT. All I know is that welfare programs in general--and the food stamp programs specifically--are broken, and the solution has been to throw more and more money at them. Instead of paying for poorly-placed advertising, perhaps that money should be directed to its original purpose, you know.......FEEDING PEOPLE. I'm not concerned about "my stack". I'm more interested in seeing the less fortunate create their own "stack", something that won't happen by giving them everything they need and not asking for any effort in return.
As for the "crying Indian" commercial: The tribe up here in the Duluth-Superior area doesn't give a **** about the environment unless they can build their "stack". Example: They railed against a proposed golf course at Spirit Mountain because of, in particular order: its "sacred place" in their culture, its status as a "burial ground", "old growth forests" and a "trout stream". After several years of lawsuits, the developers walked away. Success!
A year later, construction started on a golf course 10 miles down I-35 in the middle of a wetland behind Black Bear Casino. Coincidence? Probably not.
Also see: Enbridge pipeline settlement
If I didn't know better, I'd swear Kepler was implying that people's opposition to government welfare programs somehow implies that these heretics lack civic virtue.
While I cannot speak for all of them, I can certainly speak for myself when I say that programs such as the food stamps one are horrible as they currently exist. Subsidizing meals for the poor is one thing, but subsidizing junk food consumption is quite another - and is insulting to the taxpayers funding these programs. A simple idea: allow food stamps to be redeemed ONLY for certain types of food, and cut some sort of bulk discount deal with the stores via the guaranteed sales they'd get for this more limited assortment of goods that food stamps can buy.
If local food shelves can get discounted food for buying in bulk, surely the food stamp program can secure a similar deal on a national scale.
Which brings me to my solution to food stamp abuse and misuse: Create government food distribution programs. No more food stamps. Bring back government cheese and powdered milk. Distribute fresh fruits and veggies in lieu of EBT cards that can be used at ATMs to withdraw cash. Chicken is dirt cheap, as are eggs. Bread products are always rotated through supermarkets quickly, so there's no shortage in the "grains" sector of the food pyramid. Hell, maybe the government could create a mass-produced food-type solution that tastes like crap, yet provides all of the essential vitamins, minerals and calories. Of course, some would scream bloody murder, but it's worth the hassle.
Another way to weed out the grifters: Make it illegal to possess cigarettes, alcohol or narcotics while enrolled in a welfare program. Make it illegal to have cable TV or satellite while on welfare. Make it illegal to have anything beyond a standard trac phone while on welfare.
Bottom line: If welfare were less comfortable, fewer people would abuse it--thus freeing up additional resources for the truly needy and reducing the cost of the programs overall.
