The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

But then we would probably have to allow scurvy to run wild...and that just sounds wrong

Looks fairly TP to me:

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I can't tell, is the prevailing theme that all people of any wealth are ultra-conservatives and therefore hate kids, the poor etc? If so, who is it that donates all the money to charity? Who donates money to schools?

Clearly not, there are lot of generous people (including wealthy). But since all they care about is making money for themselves they don't care who they hurt (including children). Far as I can tell most of the super wealthy are ruthless (has to be) and turn to philanthropy when they are over the hill and looking at deaths gate beckoning them and at their legacy.

So who (I wonder) is pushing for child labor. Some of the quotes are identical from politicians (and businessmen) from the 1920's. Not enough illegal and J1 visa workers for business? minimum wage too high?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2075859,00.html?xid=huffpo-direct

Dirty Work: The Creeping Rollback of Child-Labor Laws

Maine grabbed headlines in late May when it enacted a law rolling back restrictions on the employment of minors. Children under the age of 18 can now work 24 hours a week � up from 20 � and as late as 10:15 on school nights, up from 10 p.m.

But the legislature considered going further. Another bill would have allowed employers to pay workers under 20 a "training wage" of $5.25, instead of the standard Maine state minimum wage of $7.50. It would also have eliminated the limit on how many hours a minor over 16 can work on a school night.

Earlier this year, Missouri considered a more Dickensian proposal. A bill there would have removed state restrictions on employing children under the age of 14, along with limits on how many hours children could work per day. It would also have ended routine state inspections of companies employing children.

The sponsor, state senator Jane Cunningham, insisted that she was just trying to "put back some common sense" in the law, and that, "We're not doing students any favor by telling them, 'You cannot work.'

 

[pirate]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I assume we're not talking about making kids work against their will? If a 14 year old kid wants to sell lobster rolls at Red's Eats what are we concerned about? Kids who live on farms or have a family with a business 'work' before they are 14...is that a bad thing?

With all the concerns about kids these days, the last of my worries would be that they are being forced into sweatshops to make buggywhips.

If the concern is that the mighty 14 year old workforce is going to displace a large part of the existing workforce, I'm just a bit skeptical.

Is there a federal limit on how much internet kids can surf per day, how much MTV they can watch, how many zombies they kill? No, but let's make sure none of them work...we can't have that...after all, it is for their own good, we can all see how it has resulted in healthier kids with more appreciation for a dollar.

If you can get a 14 year old kid to put their dishes in the sink it is an accomplishment, I doubt we have to worry about too many of them flooding the job market.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

For as bad as being poor supposedly is, I find it rather amusing that even that demographic has a high obesity rate.

Once upon a time, being poor meant famine and starving to death.

Why can't we go back to the good old days when the people who failed to provide for themselves died en masse or had to become indentured servants on ships for 7 years to go somewhere else?

Except the reason they are all so obese is the foods that are cheapest are the super high fat, low nutrition foods. THey are morbidly obese but malnourished.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Except the reason they are all so obese is the foods that are cheapest are the super high fat, low nutrition foods. THey are morbidly obese but malnourished.

The reason they are obese is because they are ignorant of the fact you can eat healthy on a budget, and their parents are too lazy to spend 30 minutes prepping an actual meal and would rather hit the drive through for dollar menu items.

In any case, it's better to be poor and fat than poor and dead - which is what happens to you if you live in most developing countries in the world.

 

[Hammer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Are they aware that water is cheaper than Coke?

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The reason they are obese is because they are ignorant of the fact you can eat healthy on a budget, and their parents are too lazy to spend 30 minutes prepping an actual meal and would rather hit the drive through for dollar menu items.

In any case, it's better to be poor and fat than poor and dead - which is what happens to you if you live in most developing countries in the world.

Actually there have been several colleges that assign their nutrition students to work out a plan and then stick within a budget that is at poverty level. Even tho the kids plan before they get to the implementation it is close to impossible for them. One of the kids interviewed said getting the best deals is frequently very time consuming and that even if they worked it out theoretically they weren't able to get everything and keep up with their work/school obligations never mind be someone working 2 jobs. One of the colleges was a Lutheran one- can't remember which one but it was in the Lutheran mag a few yrs ago. One stat was to eat the recommended dietary allowances in one part of Calif would take 70% of a person's budget at the poverty level. Many places do not have fresh food, even damaged stuff at a cost that is affordable. It would be nice if it was just ignorance but unfortunately it is not always the cause.

Way too lazy to look up the articles but it was eye opening.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's not as simple as "trying to buy healthy with a budget at the poverty level" - you are ignoring the fact that many of these people get subsidized food via the food stamp program. The point remains the same: these people can eat far healthier than they do but choose not to do so, and it's not solely because of their budget (for proof: look at how people with much larger food budgets eat - it's not healthy, either).

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's not as simple as "trying to buy healthy with a budget at the poverty level" - you are ignoring the fact that many of these people get subsidized food via the food stamp program. The point remains the same: these people can eat far healthier than they do but choose not to do so, and it's not solely because of their budget (for proof: look at how people with much larger food budgets eat - it's not healthy, either).

Not disagreeing that people eat awful diets. Subsidised food doesn't cover a lot where I am. You can also get stuff from certain agencies but frequently it is surpluss of cheese, higher fat stuff.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Except the reason they are all so obese is the foods that are cheapest are the super high fat, low nutrition foods. THey are morbidly obese but malnourished.

Processed food may be fat but staples are staples. There was time when all you could buy is staples with food stamps, now you can buy crap so if you are going to blame their obesity on what they buy maybe we should go back to a day when they can't buy processed crap.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Processed food may be fat but staples are staples. There was time when all you could buy is staples with food stamps, now you can buy crap so if you are going to blame their obesity on what they buy maybe we should go back to a day when they can't buy processed crap.

Not disagreeing but it is also cheaper to buy 3-4 boxes of store brand mac and cheese than to buy even the cheapest meat and a fresh or frozen vegetable. Soda is cheaper than milk by far when on sale and kids love it. It puts food in the belly. Also in many of the cities it is hard to find a supermarket. In the city local to me some areas the person would have to take 2 buses just to get to a big market and then 2 home- carrying groceries and sometimes toting along the kid(s) Not saying everyone has an excuse to eat poorly or to be obese but there are some where it would be a full time job to do it right.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You are supposed to reproduce and then believe real hard that there will be food? Now this is an interesting debate to have. There are those that believe that children are a gift from God that should not be prevented yet... there is the school of thought that says do not have kids if you can't afford them and will be using the gov't to support them. If you do it is your fault. Kind of this weird mix of judgement against those who reproduce yet strong opposition to any sort of program that provides prevention or info regarding the aqctivity that will produce the child you can't support. It makes my head spin.

After some thought, it actually makes sense.
1. pro-life - more children.
2. anti-welfare (education) - forces more children to work.
3. pro business (pro child labor) - cheap child labor for corporations.

http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_history.html

children were often preferred, because factory owners viewed them as more manageable, cheaper, and less likely to strike.

Most child labor occurs because children and families are poor and lack options for education or income.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It is our duty to make the world a better place for our children. We can do that if we want. But if we abdicate that responsibility to others.......

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It is our duty to make the world a better place for our children. We can do that if we want. But if we abdicate that responsibility to others.......

Yeah that is why people dont make the world a better place...it isnt because we are greedy and selfish the government just interfered with our ability to do the right thing.

Btw are you in the market for a bridge...I have this sweet one in Minneapolis you can buy for pennies on the dollar...

 

[duper]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

the government just interfered with our ability to do the right thing.

Really?

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Really?

I think your sarcasm detector needs repair

 

[duper]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I think your sarcasm detector needs repair

It's been a long day.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Not disagreeing but it is also cheaper to buy 3-4 boxes of store brand mac and cheese than to buy even the cheapest meat and a fresh or frozen vegetable. Soda is cheaper than milk by far when on sale and kids love it. It puts food in the belly. Also in many of the cities it is hard to find a supermarket. In the city local to me some areas the person would have to take 2 buses just to get to a big market and then 2 home- carrying groceries and sometimes toting along the kid(s) Not saying everyone has an excuse to eat poorly or to be obese but there are some where it would be a full time job to do it right.

Soda puts food in the belly? Not any soda I've ever seen. One of the best decisions I ever made was to stop drinking soda in college. A huge waste of money and not only no health value, but significant negative health impacts. The amount of junk/filler that's in a lot of the foods in the supermarket is scandalous, and it's no surprise that obesity, diabetis, etc. are skyrocketing.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Soda puts food in the belly? Not any soda I've ever seen. One of the best decisions I ever made was to stop drinking soda in college. A huge waste of money and not only no health value, but significant negative health impacts. The amount of junk/filler that's in a lot of the foods in the supermarket is scandalous, and it's no surprise that obesity, diabetis, etc. are skyrocketing.

Soda has sugar and caffiene. When you are hungry it meets the need. It is poison. NY just tried to make it so you couldn't buy it with food stamps- were blocked by the govt because it would cause too many problems. soda lobby 1- kids health 0. You would be shocked at how many people are clueless to what that stuff contains. Largest cause of (hidden) increased calories in kids is soda and gatorade.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And diet pop actually empties the stomach it does not fill it. That is why any alcoholic drink with diet coke will get you drunk faster than regular. (this is 5 years of alcohol training talking) Diet pop causes your stomach to release its contents instead of continuing to digest them.