The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Les (and others)

Have we abdicated our moral obligation to help those who are less fortunate than us to the government? If the Federal and State stepped out of the picture, I would hope that the neighbors would step in.

An interesting debate, but if government does step out, will we, as individual citizens, step up??

Whether we do or whether we don't I think we need to give the Republicans what they want. Did anyone notice that Kasich has backtracked on the labor union bill in Ohio?? Seems he passed the anti-collective bargaining legislation in Ohio like Wisconsin did but Ohioans have managed to get that very low on the ballot for a referendum and the people are OVERWHELMINGLY in support of appeal.

Quite frankly I'm shocked. Republicans were voted in, they passed a budget, fair and square. Now the people want it repealed? Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...y-off-in-ohio/2011/08/18/gIQAcZmgNJ_blog.html

I would think the people who voted the Republicans in office would want want the Republicans want.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

HAHAHA...no.

A sad commentary on our times.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Les (and others)

Have we abdicated our moral obligation to help those who are less fortunate than us to the government? If the Federal and State stepped out of the picture, I would hope that the neighbors would step in.

An interesting debate, but if government does step out, will we, as individual citizens, step up??

A lot of people have been conditioned that government will do it, rather than individuals. It's tough to dial back that conditioning.

 

[duper]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

A lot of people have been conditioned that government will do it, rather than individuals. It's tough to dial back that conditioning.

I think that we have also heard enough propaganda about the abuses of the social welfare system that a lot of people truly believe that the poor (en masse) don't try to get out of poverty because living on welfare is easier. I suspect that a lot of people, if they had more money because those programs were eliminated, would donate only to their favorite charity; themselves.

Also, I have no faith in Congress. I would almost bet money that every dollar that is taken out of social programs would end up in parts of the government that republicans approve of.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Are you prepared to deal with the labor unions going batsh*t crazy over the prospect of the truly needy doing the menial labor jobs on these infrastructure projects? Not to mention the public sector unions crying foul over the loss of thousands of cushy desk jobs issuing the no-longer-existent social welfare handouts?

Congress would probably give them prevailing wage

 

[Plante26]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

HAHAHA...no.

Because you hate people?

Congress would probably give them prevailing wage

Fine. It'd still be cheaper than paying for free housing, free utilities, free food, free health care and free cash.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Because you hate people?



Fine. It'd still be cheaper than paying for free housing, free utilities, free food, free health care and free cash.

Yeah I like the work program idea. seems like 10-30% of buildings in lot of states were built under the 1930s work program.

And why do Republicans hate children? especially pro-life conservatives.

http://www.anitra.net/homelessness/columns/anitra/eightmyths.html

The largest single group "on welfare" is children -- about one in every four children under the age of 18 receives welfare benefits. America has the greatest level of child poverty anywhere in the industrialized world:

The average monthly number of TANF families was 3,176,000 in fiscal year (FY) 1998. The estimated total number of TANF recipients was 2,631,000 adults and 6,273,000 children. The average number of persons in TANF families was 2.8 persons. The TANF families averaged 2 recipient children, which remained unchange

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Les (and others)

Have we abdicated our moral obligation to help those who are less fortunate than us to the government? If the Federal and State stepped out of the picture, I would hope that the neighbors would step in.

An interesting debate, but if government does step out, will we, as individual citizens, step up??

In my experience where the gov't has stepped out there is no net- private or otherwise. (see previous post. It is hard to help people in a society isolated from each other. Would you know your neighbors were short of food , heat or electricity. In my neighborhood it would be difficult to tell. People are not involved as a community like they used to be in many areas. If you aren't part of a community it is pretty hard to have them support you.

A lot of people have been conditioned that government will do it, rather than individuals. It's tough to dial back that conditioning.

I think that we have also heard enough propaganda about the abuses of the social welfare system that a lot of people truly believe that the poor (en masse) don't try to get out of poverty because living on welfare is easier. I suspect that a lot of people, if they had more money because those programs were eliminated, would donate only to their favorite charity; themselves.Also, I have no faith in Congress. I would almost bet money that every dollar that is taken out of social programs would end up in parts of the government that republicans approve of.

I think there are some people that take advantage of the system. I know it. I also know that I have learned the hard way there just are not enough resources to fill all the gaps.

Yeah I like the work program idea. seems like 10-30% of buildings in lot of states were built under the 1930s work program.

And why do Republicans hate children? especially pro-life conservatives.

http://www.anitra.net/homelessness/columns/anitra/eightmyths.html

You are supposed to reproduce and then believe real hard that there will be food? Now this is an interesting debate to have. There are those that believe that children are a gift from God that should not be prevented yet... there is the school of thought that says do not have kids if you can't afford them and will be using the gov't to support them. If you do it is your fault. Kind of this weird mix of judgement against those who reproduce yet strong opposition to any sort of program that provides prevention or info regarding the aqctivity that will produce the child you can't support. It makes my head spin.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And why do Democrats hate America. by bankrupting us -- with welfare (for children, old folks and corporations), Obama care(s) HealthScare Federal power grab, and communist redistribution of wealth.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I must be a liberal Democrat. since I agree with this left wing commie blog.

http://leftoflegal.com/2011/07/31/this-old-republican-ignorant-bigoted-and-greedy/

Despite having run on the promise of “Read my lips: No new taxes,” when the deficit started spiraling to dangerous levels under his presidency, Bush agreed to a compromise with Democrats to raise several taxes, along with spending cuts,

George H.W. Bush also believed that to be a conservative was to act with “prudence,” one of his favorite words

I find it hard to look at today’s G.O.P. without thinking how far it has drifted from the kind of balanced conservatism the elder Bush brought to politics

Looks like you need government intervention when things go really bad. At least we don't have millions dying from starvation here (in recent history).

http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/from_war_to_war/thegreatdepression.html

In 1933 Utah's unemployment rate was 35.8 percent, the fourth highest in the nation, and for the decade as a whole it averaged 26 percent. By 1932 the wage level for those who had not lost their jobs had declined by 45 percen

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Because you hate people?

No I just dont trust them to help out their fellow man because greed rules.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No I just dont trust them to help out their fellow man because greed rules.

And if you don't believe that watch The Daily Show from tonight.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And if you don't believe that watch The Daily Show from tonight.

Opening portion about class warfare was painful to watch.

Srsly, **** conservatives.

 

[pirate]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I can't tell, is the prevailing theme that all people of any wealth are ultra-conservatives and therefore hate kids, the poor etc? If so, who is it that donates all the money to charity? Who donates money to schools? Who sits on boards of charities? Who starts the charities in the first place? Who builds a wing on the children's hospital? Certainly people of all means do some of those things, however, it often takes people with money and connections to produce results and sustain the effort.

The notion that fortunate people do nothing for others is so completely false that it suprises me to see so many of you spouting it out of bitterness or whatever other emotion may drive it.

There are cold, heartless people at all levels of the wealth spectrum.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I can't tell, is the prevailing theme that all people of any wealth are ultra-conservatives and therefore hate kids, the poor etc? If so, who is it that donates all the money to charity? Who donates money to schools? Who sits on boards of charities? Who starts the charities in the first place? Who builds a wing on the children's hospital? Certainly people of all means do some of those things, however, it often takes people with money and connections to produce results and sustain the effort.

The notion that fortunate people do nothing for others is so completely false that it suprises me to see so many of you spouting it out of bitterness or whatever other emotion may drive it.

There are cold, heartless people at all levels of the wealth spectrum.

Maybe this will explain it. I wouldn't want to be a poor child in Texas. You get it now??

 

[BassAle]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Fine. It'd still be cheaper than paying for free housing, free utilities, free food, free health care and free cash.

you would be displacing millions of contractors and government workers, who would probably need to go on welfare.

 

[duper]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I can't tell, is the prevailing theme that all people of any wealth are ultra-conservatives and therefore hate kids, the poor etc? If so, who is it that donates all the money to charity? Who donates money to schools? Who sits on boards of charities? Who starts the charities in the first place? Who builds a wing on the children's hospital? Certainly people of all means do some of those things, however, it often takes people with money and connections to produce results and sustain the effort.

The notion that fortunate people do nothing for others is so completely false that it suprises me to see so many of you spouting it out of bitterness or whatever other emotion may drive it.

There are cold, heartless people at all levels of the wealth spectrum.

You are of course right. There are people at all levels of the wealth spectrum who are generous, and people who are stingy. I don't believe that anyone in this thread has indicated in any way that ALL rich people are stingy. For Pete's sake we've been discussing Warren Buffet, who, along with Bill Gates are examples 1 and 2 of generous rich people. What I believe, and I believe it strongly, is that the generous people are notably in the minority. And let's face it, not all of the people who are building hospital wings and whatnot are being truly generous. Think of that rich guy in your city that every third building is named after. It's a different guy in each city, but you know who I'm talking about. Pretty darn good advertising, if you ask me.

Anyway, back to the point, yes there are a lot of very generous people out there, but I tend to believe that there are a lot more stingy (I don't necessarily think greedy is the right word) people than generous.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

you would be displacing millions of contractors and government workers, who would probably need to go on welfare.

So you think unskilled labor could replace all those folks, maybe they should be unemployed and on welfare

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I wouldn't want to be a poor child in Texas. You get it now??

For as bad as being poor supposedly is, I find it rather amusing that even that demographic has a high obesity rate.

Once upon a time, being poor meant famine and starving to death.

Why can't we go back to the good old days when the people who failed to provide for themselves died en masse or had to become indentured servants on ships for 7 years to go somewhere else?

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

But then we would probably have to allow scurvy to run wild...and that just sounds wrong