The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Interesting that so few people approve but they are acting the way they are because they are afraid of challenges in the primary. My first thought after reading the percentages from Fox is how are they spinning that one with the majority being the GOP?

?

They aren't as far as I can tell: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/10/fox-news-poll-record-low-10-percent-approve-congress/

You might as well have said "Gee, I wonder how MSNBC is spinning the news that Obama is getting hammered in the polls and now has record low numbers. And he's a democrat!"

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

?

They aren't as far as I can tell: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/10/fox-news-poll-record-low-10-percent-approve-congress/

You might as well have said "Gee, I wonder how MSNBC is spinning the news that Obama is getting hammered in the polls and now has record low numbers. And he's a democrat!"

Well, thier pole seemed to be even more dire than the others. Any of the extreme, non-journal stations always try to spin the thing, no matter which side you are looking at.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well in the end, poll numbers are irrelevant. It's the trends that are important. The actual numbers can be skewed relatively easily. Trends on the other hand are a bit more difficult to skew.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well in the end, poll numbers are irrelevant. It's the trends that are important. The actual numbers can be skewed relatively easily. Trends on the other hand are a bit more difficult to skew.

Not really, pick your start and end points (accentuate with specific examples you want to bring up) and you can show anything. (Can also pick only polls that further your desired outcome. Which Fox would never do)

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

They'll (red states) be too busy staffing the booming agriculture and energy sectors to give two ****s about your pools.

Frankly its just the oil industry. And if alternatives take off, that could lead to a (red state) hammering equal to that felt by Detroit.

No assurances that the center alternative energy production will be located where the center of petroleum production (AK, TX and the gulf coast) is today. Which is how this whole line of discussion started: any shift towards alternative fuels will hurt the economies of the current oil producers the same way that the increase in sales of import cars hurt Detroit's economy while helping areas in the south the built assembly plants for Toyota and Honda (and others).

Almington largely agree after I made point? Check.

...................

True, but significantly curtailing the demand for petroleum based fuels for transportation would significantly reduce the size of the industry. Plus, if the alternative energies are liquid fuels, the chemical industry will devise a way to use the cheapest feedstock available.

The oil industry wouldn't go away but the scope and size of the industry will be reduced.

Almington largely agree after I made point? Check.

................

I think that we can all agree that 5MM has no idea what he is talking about.

Almington looks like an idiot after agreeing with me a handful of times? Check.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I didn't even see that post. HAHAHAHA!

After awhile you get programmed to skip over his drivel

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No assurances that the center alternative energy production will be located where the center of petroleum production (AK, TX and the gulf coast) is today. Which is how this whole line of discussion started: any shift towards alternative fuels will hurt the economies of the current oil producers the same way that the increase in sales of import cars hurt Detroit's economy while helping areas in the south the built assembly plants for Toyota and Honda (and others).

I agree, so long as when you say "the economies of the current oil producers" you mean "the economies of the regions which currently produce oil" and are not talking about the bottom lines of the oil companies themselves. I'm pretty sure that's what you mean - just clarifying.

I understand better than most that the oil industry isn't going anywhere and that as large, established multinational corporations that they are in an excellent positions to adapt to any changes and prosper even as the supply of oil decreases and the push towards alternatives grows.

Absolutely - for example, Heathrow airport is absolutely plastered with BP ads touting their chops in wind, gas, solar, tidal, etc. They will do absolutely everything they can to remain viable, profitable companies - even if it means giving up on energy altogether and going into manufacturing buggy whips once we're all using horses again.

I think that we can all agree that 5MM has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

14%? How on earth does ANY incumbent get reelected? Anyone who votes for an incumbent should have their vote taken away. I'm kidding! I think...

It's always the other guy who sucks -- people still approve of their guy. Which makes sense in an environment where selfishness is a virtue and compromise is decried as weakness. These polls are saying: I want it all my way, and if I don't get it, then the system is "broken." How else would people feel sealed in their bubbles where only people who agree with them are allowed to speak?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Got no interest in seeking out approval from the board's conservatives. If I did, I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do pointing out the movements' endless list of hypocrisies.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's always the other guy who sucks -- people still approve of their guy. Which makes sense in an environment where selfishness is a virtue and compromise is decried as weakness. These polls are saying: I want it all my way, and if I don't get it, then the system is "broken." How else would people feel sealed in their bubbles where only people who agree with them are allowed to speak?

This.

Was at a party with a bunch of Lutherans (this is hard to do in my part of the country) and the first topic brought up was politics (also kind of weird- usually you hear that but not directly after being introduced.) They were all freaking that Michelle Bachmann won the Straw pole. They think she is scary and worse they found out she was a Lutheran. One lady said she had heard she was Lutheran and thought OMG!! I laughed. I had the same reaction

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Got no interest in seeking out approval from the board's conservatives. If I did, I wouldn't spend the amount of time I do pointing out the movements' endless list of hypocrisies.

Since when is the availability of a substance which will give up energy as freely as petroleum a conservative or liberal issue?

Nice (attempt at) deflection.


edit:

I would rate as equally stupid:

A) Conservatives who insist that peak oil is a myth and that new discoveries and new techniques (e.g. fracking) will allow us to keep using fossil fuels forever
B) Liberals who think that if we put up a few windmills and solar panels while singing Kum-Bay-Ya fervently enough, then we won't need petroleum any more

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

This.

Was at a party with a bunch of Lutherans (this is hard to do in my part of the country) and the first topic brought up was politics (also kind of weird- usually you hear that but not directly after being introduced.) They were all freaking that Michelle Bachmann won the Straw pole. They think she is scary and worse they found out she was a Lutheran. One lady said she had heard she was Lutheran and thought OMG!! I laughed. I had the same reaction

Are they not aware that there is two factions in the Lutheran Church? ELCA and and LCMS. Looking it up the Lutheran Church that she attended is under the WELS banner which is neither. Evidently that denomination believes that the Pope is the Anti-Christ. She now apparently attends Eagle Brook Church which is one of those huge Evangelical Mega Churches. Puts her in lock step with the Republican Party by doing that. Pawlenty was a long time member of Wooddale Church which is the same sort of thing.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I agree, so long as when you say "the economies of the current oil producers" you mean "the economies of the regions which currently produce oil" and are not talking about the bottom lines of the oil companies themselves. I'm pretty sure that's what you mean - just clarifying.

Yes, that is what I mean. Although, odds are that not all the current oil companies will be winners as they transition to more broad energy companies.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How Australia got its AAA rating back

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Are they not aware that there is two factions in the Lutheran Church? ELCA and and LCMS. Looking it up the Lutheran Church that she attended is under the WELS banner which is neither. Evidently that denomination believes that the Pope is the Anti-Christ. She now apparently attends Eagle Brook Church which is one of those huge Evangelical Mega Churches. Puts her in lock step with the Republican Party by doing that. Pawlenty was a long time member of Wooddale Church which is the same sort of thing.

Just her name and Lutheran in the same sentence was the freak out. I belong to an ELCA church and the people at the party were all ELCA. THose of us that are more active know there are different factions. Some of the not so active ones were not as aware. It was just funny that everyone was so horrified.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How Australia got its AAA rating back

Let me guess without even watching the video. They slashed spending and taxes.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Liberals who think that if we put up a few windmills and solar panels while singing Kum-Bay-Ya fervently enough, then we won't need petroleum any more

I'm sure there are people like that, but the real "post-petroleum" argument is that the more we invest in alternatives, the more those alternatives will be ready when oil prices do rise, and we'll be able to transition at an overall lower energy cost. Waiting won't stop the transition -- it will mean the lines cross at a higher level. Since the oil companies are also going to be the post-petroleum energy companies, it's in their interest to wait.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Let me guess without even watching the video. They slashed spending and taxes.

Not copying New Zealand.
http://youtu.be/eI82rfLop48 (Excerpts from a 2002 documentary embed disabled and comments on what Australia did at 6 min mark.)

Odd how that fox video is basically "balance budget" without going into any details on what was cut, what revenue increases were made, or any explanation on what they did. I'm amused by the coincidence of seeing that just after I finished watching a video on dishonorable journalism techniques.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Just her name and Lutheran in the same sentence was the freak out. I belong to an ELCA church and the people at the party were all ELCA. THose of us that are more active know there are different factions. Some of the not so active ones were not as aware. It was just funny that everyone was so horrified.

To be fair, Lutherans scare the crap out of me too

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

To be fair, Lutherans scare the crap out of me too

The Lutheran Church in our town has a marquee reading "Be still. And know that I am Lord." I always get the image of everybody sitting on their hands in the pews uncomfortably.

Whatever Bachmann calls herself, she's about as Christian as Al Qaeda is Muslim. Ship all the fundies to Mars and let them duke it out.