The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Pundits and talking heads keep focusing on the Tea Party's likely reaction to a tax increase, forgetting that fiscally there is another, more deeply embedded, subtler but infinitely more mercenary influence on Republican politics: Big Money. Big Money -- Wall Street, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the myriad networks of individual donors and independent campaign ad funders and potential post-Congressional-career employers that are the G.O.P.'s (and, to be fair, half of the Democratic Party's) true constituents -- calmly allows its minions to showcase and speechify and engage in tiny, irrelevant acts of political theater to meet the needs of the political moment, but the ground of Big Money's existence is the integrity of the financial system. Are big banks about to go under? D.C. is mobilized overnight, ideology is set aside, and supposed free marketeers like John Boehner tearfully beg Congress to intervene in the free market to bail them out.

If Big Money can make conservative congresscritters scramble to serve its will when a few banks are on the bubble, what do you think it can accomplish when the integrity of the U.S. government -- the ground of the U.S. financial system's being, the issuer of public tender and surety of U.S. businesses' credibility in world markets -- is in jeopardy? Answer: anything it wants. Big Money can tell Boehner to step down and retire, and he will. It can tell Paul Ryan to jettison his budget, and he will. It can tell Eric Cantor to back down from his hardcore rhetoric, and Ron Paul to silently brook a larger federal government, and they will.

The pressure's already building -- the normally pro-Republican U.S. Chamber and other business leaders, carefully prepped and cultivated by the Administration well in advance of this crisis (!), already have started leaning on Republicans to take a deal, and Moody's is threatening to downgrade U.S. securities. If Obama can sustain his bluff to the bitter end, the G.O.P. will do whatever it takes to prevent a default, because their masters are telling them to do so. (And don't believe Cantor's assertion that passing a bill raising taxes is impossible: the unofficial "Wall Street Caucus" has always been larger than the Tea Party Caucus, and combined with House Democrats, who outnumber Tea Party Caucus members three-to-one, can easily pass whatever is needed.)

The process of persuading the G.O.P. to accept the inevitable has already begun; it's precisely the slowly-dawning realization that Republican control of the House is at stake that's making G.O.P. leaders look so shaky lately. It's why Mitch McConnell has, remarkably, proposed an alternative bill that would actually increase the power of a Democratic president -- and why Obama has rejected the offer. It's why the White House adamantly refuses to accept any short-term, pressure-relieving solutions.

Link

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Ya, battle lines have been drawn. As priceless' post alludes...business opposes debt ceiling...no spending...cold turkey. They will be against the GOP on this matter.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'd maybe make the point a little more delicately than the author or Priceless' post but its a solid point. Of the 3 wings of the Republican party (Social cons, military, corporations) - its the corporate wing shelling out the bucks to finance the party, and its them who stands to lose the most out of this. That's why the reactions of the stock market are so important. Its the most visable and one of the quickest leading indicators that the public can relate to if this goes on too long.

Having said that, I don't see a face saving way out of this (not to say that there isn't one, but I can't imagine what). Obama has repeatedly stated no short term fix. He may go along with the 1.5T baseline cuts that the Biden group came up with, but the House GOP has already repeatedly said no. Would the House leadership allow a bill to pass that required half to 2/3rds of the Dems to vote for it? Does Obama offer up entitlement cuts with no tax increases? Just seems to me that somebody's going to lose, and lose big, when this is all over (aside from the public of course).

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

This part is absurd for people that have any knowledge of the fundraising records of the last election:

he myriad networks of individual donors and independent campaign ad funders and potential post-Congressional-career employers that are the G.O.P.'s (and, to be fair, half of the Democratic Party's) true constituents

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

(aside from the public of course).

I'm pretty certain they could care less about that.

Saw some blurb on the news that projected revenue for August is 175 billion, but they need 200 and something billion to meet obligations. Is there ever going to be a time when revenue meets demand? or should they just abolish the debt ceiling as it seems to be a joke anyway

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm pretty certain they could care less about that.

Saw some blurb on the news that projected revenue for August is 175 billion, but they need 200 and something billion to meet obligations. Is there ever going to be a time when revenue meets demand? or should they just abolish the debt ceiling as it seems to be a joke anyway

There was a time. Then Bush II took office and threw the whole thing out the window.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm pretty certain they could care less about that.

Saw some blurb on the news that projected revenue for August is 175 billion, but they need 200 and something billion to meet obligations. Is there ever going to be a time when revenue meets demand? or should they just abolish the debt ceiling as it seems to be a joke anyway

It would be as if someone with a credit card and a mortgage suddenly lost their job. Not that that would ever happen because we gave HUGE tax breaks to the job creators 10 years ago to ensure economic security. That worked out well, right?

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

My takeaway was that even the left winger that wrote this piece knows both sides are to blame, ergo we are to blame. And then you think the Republicans are being "brutally embarrassed for their demagoguery" after reading this piece. Did we read the same thing?

How about the presidents demagoguery when he told Cantor Don't call my Bluff If he is not embarrassed by it, it only proves how stupid he is.

If that's true, then the Politico editor is dead wrong. Both parties have contributed mightily to the national debt. The debt ceiling vote is all Congress.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

If that's true, then the Politico editor is dead wrong. Both parties have contributed mightily to the national debt. The debt ceiling vote is all Congress.

How much of it is:

1. Two wars.
2. Bush Tax Cuts.
3. NCLB.
4. Medicare Prescription "D".

????

Seems to me one President signed all that into law. Truman said, "the buck stops here" remember. That also doesn't even take into account that the shenanigans on Wall Street that took the entire world economy down happened on his watch. Last time I checked the President is the top law enforcement officer in the United States.

But, you tell me again all about the Democrats culpability.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

McConnell said his first choice was to reach a good compromise with Obama.

Short of that, "my second obligation is to my party ... to prevent them from being sucked into a horrible position politically that would allow the president probably to get re-elected because we didn't handle this difficult situation correctly."

Where does his obligation to his constituents and the country as a whole rank?

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How much of it is:

1. Two wars.
2. Bush Tax Cuts.
3. NCLB.
4. Medicare Prescription "D".

????

Seems to me one President signed all that into law. Truman said, "the buck stops here" remember. That also doesn't even take into account that the shenanigans on Wall Street that took the entire world economy down happened on his watch. Last time I checked the President is the top law enforcement officer in the United States.

But, you tell me again all about the Democrats culpability.

They rolled over for Bush like trained dogs.

eta: By your definition, maybe that makes them more complicit than guilty. I dunno . . . to me, that sort of hair-splitting reflects the same crappy attitude that the GOP has taken to Washington. "Eff it, don't look at us . . . You're the President. "

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Where does his obligation to his constituents and the country as a whole rank?

Dead Last.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's been an agreement reached at the budget talks!

Both sides have agreed that there will be no meeting tomorrow.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's been an agreement reached at the budget talks!

Both sides have agreed that there will be no meeting tomorrow.

Wow. Finally a reason to vote incumbent next year.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Where does his obligation to his constituents and the country as a whole rank?

Certainly not very high. The whole thing is a game and we're the pawns

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

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[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How much of it is:

1. Two wars.
2. Bush Tax Cuts.
3. NCLB.
4. Medicare Prescription "D".

????

Seems to me one President signed all that into law. Truman said, "the buck stops here" remember. That also doesn't even take into account that the shenanigans on Wall Street that took the entire world economy down happened on his watch. Last time I checked the President is the top law enforcement officer in the United States.

But, you tell me again all about the Democrats culpability.

Admittedly the current administration has played its own role in spending. Having said that, the govt has been trying to keep the country from sailing down the drain as to an extent corporations have opted out of the recovery.

This compared to the prior govt which spent because it wanted to.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

"Anyone who votes not to raise the debt ceiling is gay!"

Think that would work?

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

To steal a meme from Fark:
Both sides are bad. So vote Republican.

Got it.

When people like geezer, when conservative editorial boards like the Economist, and when most of the general American public think the blame lies with the GOP, maybe, just maybe, the blame actually does in fact lie with the GOP.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about the debt ceiling, and all you read was 'yada yada yada'. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. I do know the latest Gallup Poll says that Americans favor almost 2 to 1 the GOP plan of NOT raising the Debt ceiling. I'm not sure how most of the general American public can blame the GOP for the impass, and prefer their method. Possible I suppose!?!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I was talking about the debt ceiling, and all you read was 'yada yada yada'. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. I do know the latest Gallup Poll says that Americans favor almost 2 to 1 the GOP plan of NOT raising the Debt ceiling. I'm not sure how most of the general American public can blame the GOP for the impass, and prefer their method. Possible I suppose!?!

I imagine 2 to 1 Americans favor not defaulting on our debt...or having credit agencies downgrade the US. That number probably rises to 80% with organizations that actually pay the nation's workers.