The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

just so they can get primaried in 2012 because they didn't vote for a Constitutional Amendment to make Evangelical Christianity the national religion.

Guess I missed that angle on the budget situation.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You have way more faith than I do. Boehner and Obama had the deal done and Cantor stepped in and nuked it. There is no way in hell moderate Republicans are going to vote against Cantor and McConnell.

Cantor is a very ambitious politician. He knows that in the long run, the hard screws of Reality always wear down the adolescent fantasies of Populism. He's using the tiger, but he's lining up zebras, too.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well. 50/50.

It would just be too depressing for me if the politicians were deliberately "depressing wages and stoking racial and ethnic tensions" for voter turnout. But politically, I'm in a depressed mood so I half believe it too.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It would just be too depressing for me if the politicians were deliberately "depressing wages and stoking racial and ethnic tensions" for voter turnout. But politically, I'm in a depressed mood so I half believe it too.

Their order of preferred outcomes is:

1. Recovery, conservatives are credited
2. Depression, liberals are blamed
3. Recovery, liberals are credited
4. Depression, conservatives are blamed

If they had the country's best interests at heart, they would invert 2 and 3.

A few of the real wingnuts invert 3 and 4. Those are the ones who are dangerous.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The most thoughtful political blog on the interwebs quantifies the partisanship of the Class of 2010. Executive briefing: wave elections beget vulnerable incumbents who are significantly off their district's beam. Either those incumbents evolve to match their districts, or they die. The Class of 2010 has lots of these guys -- in this case, doctrinaire righties perched atop moderate seats. That doesn't bode well for them (unless, like so many of their predecessors, they fade into their district's mean).

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Politico

Trying to get out of the political box which they have helped to create, Senate Republicans are actively discussing a new plan under which the debt ceiling would grow in three increments over the remainder of this Congress unless lawmakers approve a veto proof resolution of disapproval.

In effect lawmakers would be surrendering the very power of approval that the GOP has used to force the crisis now. But by taking the disapproval route, Republicans can shift the onus more onto the White House and Democrats since a two-thirds majority will be needed to stop any increase that President Barack Obama requests.

How the new approach will sit with House Republicans is unclear. But at this stage it offers an escape valve for those in the GOP who fear that if the current crisis persists they will be forced to accept some tax revenue increases as part of any settlement.

An internal Senate GOP memo describes the plan as modeled on the Congressional Review Act of the 90’s under which Congress may block or over-turn an agency’s rules by adopting a joint resolution of disapproval –subject to a presidential veto.

In this case the presumption is that Obama’s Treasury Department would ask for an increase in its borrowing authority and the president would be required be required to propose offsetting savings. Three votes are anticipated between now and the 2012 elections, the first for $700 billion later this month, the second later this year and another for $900 billion in the summer of 2012.

Together that would add up to $2.5 trillion or the rough equivalent of the $2.4 trillion debt increase that has been commonly discussed in talks with the White House.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Wow. What a bunch of *******.

Politically, the new debt process is a McConnell classic in that it seeks to shift all of the blame for any debt increase on to the president and Democrats. Republicans would be free to vote in opposition without the consequences of risking default.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58801.html#ixzz1RuokcdX4

 

[Rover]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You have way more faith than I do. Boehner and Obama had the deal done and Cantor stepped in and nuked it. There is no way in hell moderate Republicans are going to vote against Cantor and McConnell.

Gotta agree with Scoobs on this one. I don't at this point see a way out of default. Simply put the GOP (and myself, frankly) didn't expect Obama to top them with the $4T amount, and now they're stuck. The only, and I mean only, way either side gets cover now is when the stock market tanks on Aug 3rd and angry seniors start calling up screaming about where are there social security checks. A similar precedent is the bank bailout bill, which initially failed the House because the GOP minority at the time voted wholesale against it, and Pelosi refused to have the Dems pass it by themselves. Stock market tanked and the next time it passed with bipartisan support.

Putting my normal Dem leanings aside, I don't see what's so unreasonable about Obama's offer. Everybody has to give a little, and when will there ever be the political will to tinker with Medicare by means testing it ever again? $2T over 10 years is a drop in the bucket. Its 200Bn a year when the country's facing a 1.4T a year deficit. Logic would dictate the higher you can go the better, essentually offsetting GOP favored cuts to domestic programs and Medicare with Dem favored military cuts and tax revenues.

EDIT: A for effort from McConnell but how does he expect that to pass the Dem Senate?

EDIT 2: And if it did, what's to stop Obama from unilaterly decimating any "red" state's federal contributions? If its left up to him to decide what gets cut, subject to a veto proof override, couldn't he basically axe all fed monies to Kentucky, Arizona, etc etc ? Reallly surprised the GOP would go for that, and I also question the plan's constitutionality given that Congress has power over the budget.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Are you this big a tool in real life, or do you just play one on TV?

I'm speculating he's suffering from a combination of joblessness, living with his parents as he approaches age 30, and not getting laid since Shrub's first term.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Saying that offshore tax havens deprive the United States Treasury of tens of billions of dollars of revenue a year, two senior Democratic senators are pushing to help reduce the federal deficit by tightening rules that allow hedge funds, derivatives traders and corporations to skirt federal taxes.

A bill unveiled Tuesday by Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the permanent subcommittee on investigations, would change Internal Revenue Service regulations that allow American traders of credit-default swaps to avoid paying federal taxes on many transactions that begin in the United States. It would also tighten rules that enable some hedge funds and corporations based in the United States to reduce their federal tax liabilities by declaring themselves foreign companies and moving a small part of their operations overseas.

In an effort to discourage companies from using bookkeeping maneuvers to shift their profits to tax havens, the measure would also require American corporations to provide the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the public, with a country-by-country breakdown of their sales, employment and operations.

Senator Levin, a Michigan Democrat who has spent years investigating tax avoidance schemes, estimates that abuse of offshore havens costs the Treasury more than $100 billion a year and said his proposal could provide a breakthrough in the stalled deficit-reduction negotiations between President Obama and Congress. Mr. Obama has refused to approve a deal that does not include increased revenues, and Republicans have said they will oppose any measure that increases taxes. Mr. Levin said his plan offers a compromise by closing loopholes used by corporations and investors, many of whom have continued to reap profits during the economic downturn while minimizing tax liability.

Tweet from Boehner:

House GOP united against job-crushing tax hikes

They prefer job-crushing tax cuts.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I don't see what's so unreasonable about Obama's offer.

Obama's offer was the Dems sacrifice 83% and the Repubs sacrifice 17%. The Repubs insist they will only approve an offer where the Dems sacrifice 100%. That's their idea of a "compromise."

Imagine the tantrum they'd throw if Obama had the stones to propose a dollar-for-dollar match, with each side giving 50%. Or for that matter, with the Dems controlling the Senate and the White House, if he had insisted on a 33-67 split on the theory that elections have consequences.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Obama's offer was the Dems sacrifice 83% and the Repubs sacrifice 17%. The Repubs insist they will only approve an offer where the Dems sacrifice 100%. That's their idea of a "compromise."

Imagine the tantrum they'd throw if Obama had the stones to propose a dollar-for-dollar match, with each side giving 50%. Or for that matter, with the Dems controlling the Senate and the White House, if he had insisted on a 33-67 split on the theory that elections have consequences.

Obama's problem is that he's negotiating with economic terrorists who are perfectly willing to destroy the national and world economies if it gives them a 5% better chance of shoving Michelle Bachmann in to the White House.

I say good luck to all the incumbants when August 10th rolls around and a whole bunch of 65+ people want to know where the hell their social security checks are. Whoever gets the blame can kiss their *** goodbye in 2012.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Obama's offer was the Dems sacrifice 83% and the Repubs sacrifice 17%.

Socialist! Muslin!

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

At least the GOP is focusing on the important issues.

House GOP fails to repeal light bulb efficiency requirement

Opponents of the federal phase-out of old-style incandescent light bulbs failed in the House on Tuesday to repeal the requirement for more efficient lighting but are expected to try again soon.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Obama's offer was the Dems sacrifice 83% and the Repubs sacrifice 17%. The Repubs insist they will only approve an offer where the Dems sacrifice 100%. That's their idea of a "compromise."

Imagine the tantrum they'd throw if Obama had the stones to propose a dollar-for-dollar match, with each side giving 50%. Or for that matter, with the Dems controlling the Senate and the White House, if he had insisted on a 33-67 split on the theory that elections have consequences.

You just don't get it. The Republicans get budget cuts and the Dems get to increase the debt limit. That's the compromise. Never mind that the Republicans had no problem raising the debt limit back when Bush was in office blowing America's wad on land wars in Asia, kids who hate school, and drugs for grandma and grandpa.

Obama better get his ****ing priorities straight.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

From those Muslin Communists over at US News & World Report

The data suggests that those who identify as Republicans who are supportive of the tea party not only view themselves as far more educated than the average person on the current debt debate, but are also far more worried about the impact if the debt limit is increased.

More than eight in 10 tea party supporters (81 percent) said they understand “what would happen if the government does not raise the federal debt limit” — far more than the 55 percent of all respondents who said the same thing.

Three quarters of tea party supporters said that they were more concerned that raising the debt ceiling would “lead to higher government spending and make the national debt bigger,” while just 19 percent said they were more worried that “not raising the debt limit would force the government into default and hurt the nation’s economy.”

…

The message from the numbers? Tea party backers simply don’t believe that not raising the debt limit by Aug. 2 is all that big a deal — and they feel that way because they believe they understand the issue inside and out.

…

If a significant chunk of his House members don’t fear the consequences of a default, it’s very difficult for Boehner to make the case for the fierce urgency of now in the debt debate.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

They "know" they know better than those pointy-head experts who wasted decades getting PhD's and doing research. "You got soft hands; city hands. You've been countin' money all your life."

See also: evolution, climate change, Terry Shiavo, stem cells, etc...

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

From those Muslin Communists over at US News & World Report

From what I can tell, the incentives on the Dems (Obama) side are quite clear: to address the deficit there must be both a spending and revenue solution and if we don't get the revenue side addressed now while we're at the negotiating table, we never will. Dems really need a solution and do not want the govt shut down.

The GOPs goals are much more complicated. You have Boehner who doesn't want spending and yet as the majority leader, he's on the spot to also find a solution.

Then you have those like Cantor...he doesn't want spending, but he's not on the hook for the whole country and is more likely keeping an eye on his political future. So he's interested if it represents what he wants...a win for him.

Then you have the tea party constituants...they're stuck on a mantra of cut spending but no increase in revenue just on principle...the details of what happens to the country is secondary. In fact, it appears they largely believe that shutting down the government is only good as then it can't spend.

Just as a murder case looks for motivations to evaluate the liklihood of innocence or guilt...the various motivations show clearly how this thing is going down.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Aaaah, leadership.

However, McConnell said, Mr. Obama's interest in including revenue increases in the deal has left Republicans with two bad choices: "either sign onto a bad deal that raises taxes or go into default and allow us to have co-ownership of a bad economy."


McConnell acknowledged that the "back-up" plan he unveiled yesterday comes down largely to a political move. The plan would allow Mr. Obama to raise the debt limit without any Republican support.


"I refuse to help Barack Obama get re-elected by marching Republicans into a position where we have co-ownership of a bad economy," he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20079228-503544.html

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

They "know" they know better than those pointy-head experts who wasted decades getting PhD's and doing research. "You got soft hands; city hands. You've been countin' money all your life."

See also: evolution, climate change, Terry Shiavo, stem cells, etc...

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

Somebody has to stand up to these experts.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pzrUt9CHtpY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BTW he is talking out of context.. more than once.. on everything.