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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
No. We'd have more of them that we wouldn't bother maintaining.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Which is why they still took 2 seats from GOP-heavy districts, amirite?
In hindsight, this was a bad knee-jerk reaction of a tactic. The 1-year limitation meant they couldn't target the weak Republicans from moderate districts who got elected in the wave of 2010, but had to target those who were elected previously in non-wave elections (and thus were more likely to be stronger representatives of their districts).
It's a win for the GOP to the extent it takes the wind out of the sails of the Walker recall and they hang onto control of the entire Wisconsin government for another year. But a -2 night surely doesn't validate the entire breadth of their platform. Of course since they blew their entire wad in the weeks leading up to last night for fear that they would lose more, they really have nowhere else to go but towards the middle for the next year.
Which is why they still took 2 seats from GOP-heavy districts, amirite?
In hindsight, this was a bad knee-jerk reaction of a tactic. The 1-year limitation meant they couldn't target the weak Republicans from moderate districts who got elected in the wave of 2010, but had to target those who were elected previously in non-wave elections (and thus were more likely to be stronger representatives of their districts).
It's a win for the GOP to the extent it takes the wind out of the sails of the Walker recall and they hang onto control of the entire Wisconsin government for another year. But a -2 night surely doesn't validate the entire breadth of their platform. Of course since they blew their entire wad in the weeks leading up to last night for fear that they would lose more, they really have nowhere else to go but towards the middle for the next year.
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Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Kepler -- good post
Only thing missing was the cliffhanger music.
Kepler -- good post
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
OK, I'm going to ask a serious question: We know the system is broken. The majority of American say some form of compromise on cuts and spending is needed. But how do we as individuals fix it? And I really can't come up with an answer.
Clearly the existing politicians have neither the ability or desire to find a solution other than what gets them elected the next time. Every change to the election mechanism that is enacted by those politicians only solidifies their position and makes it more difficult to change them. Every attempt to generate an alternate to them is crushed by corporate largesse and a compliant judicial system. The primary system is rigged to give us only extremist candidates and nothing in the center, which is where the American people classify themselves. So if you say "At the voting booth" you're denying how rigged the political system is against change. So what other mechanism is there?
Answers welcome.
OK, I'm going to ask a serious question: We know the system is broken. The majority of American say some form of compromise on cuts and spending is needed. But how do we as individuals fix it? And I really can't come up with an answer.
Clearly the existing politicians have neither the ability or desire to find a solution other than what gets them elected the next time. Every change to the election mechanism that is enacted by those politicians only solidifies their position and makes it more difficult to change them. Every attempt to generate an alternate to them is crushed by corporate largesse and a compliant judicial system. The primary system is rigged to give us only extremist candidates and nothing in the center, which is where the American people classify themselves. So if you say "At the voting booth" you're denying how rigged the political system is against change. So what other mechanism is there?
Answers welcome.
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The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Term limits?
Hey, if they know they won't face de-election (<-- spelled as intended) maybe we'll have some statesmen, instead of politicians, serving again.
Other than that, I say name me "Supreme Benevolent Dictator". I'll fix all the problems. I promise.
Term limits?
Hey, if they know they won't face de-election (<-- spelled as intended) maybe we'll have some statesmen, instead of politicians, serving again.
Other than that, I say name me "Supreme Benevolent Dictator". I'll fix all the problems. I promise.
busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Priceless had a NY Times budget calculator link that allowed all of us to balance the budget on our own. We all did it with no problem whether we were Democrat or Republican. The reason it's not getting done on Capital Hill is there all a bunch of spineless, gutless, special interest, cowards. No one exemplifies that more than Barack Obama. In other words, we're forked. There is no fix.
Priceless had a NY Times budget calculator link that allowed all of us to balance the budget on our own. We all did it with no problem whether we were Democrat or Republican. The reason it's not getting done on Capital Hill is there all a bunch of spineless, gutless, special interest, cowards. No one exemplifies that more than Barack Obama. In other words, we're forked. There is no fix.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
The truth is there may not be an a way to fix it. Once these people are elected they stop representing us and our interests and care only about their interests and the interests of their party. It doesnt matter who it is, sooner or later they will be corrupted. And term limits dont help.
George Carlin said it best: (NSFW!!)
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xIraCchPDhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The truth is there may not be an a way to fix it. Once these people are elected they stop representing us and our interests and care only about their interests and the interests of their party. It doesnt matter who it is, sooner or later they will be corrupted. And term limits dont help.
George Carlin said it best: (NSFW!!)
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xIraCchPDhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Part of the problem is that lobbyist have the most influence over inexperienced legislators.
My argument would be to increase term lengths so that they were not facing re-election every 2 years in the house. Move it to 4 years in the house and 8 years in the Senate, only hold federal elections every 4 years.
I'd be willing to consider a cap on combined time in the House and Senate to 24 years (after 24 years of service, you'd be ineligible to be re-elected to either body but could still run for president)
Part of the problem is that lobbyist have the most influence over inexperienced legislators.
My argument would be to increase term lengths so that they were not facing re-election every 2 years in the house. Move it to 4 years in the house and 8 years in the Senate, only hold federal elections every 4 years.
I'd be willing to consider a cap on combined time in the House and Senate to 24 years (after 24 years of service, you'd be ineligible to be re-elected to either body but could still run for president)
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bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Money is speech and money is power. There is no way to fix it now. It would have to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt anew.
Money is speech and money is power. There is no way to fix it now. It would have to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt anew.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
I don't think the primaries are "rigged," and I don't think they've produced extreme nominees. The party system will definitely give us nominees who pass broad party litmus tests and there are pros and cons with that. I can't imagine an independent president ever getting anything difficult accomplished, for example, since he would have no base within Congress to appeal to.
Insofar as there is a magic bullet, it's campaign finance reform. We'll never take bribery out of the system entirely, but right now the system actively encourages it.
One thing that always comes up as a solution is term limits, and I am here to tell you that is a terrible, terrible idea. In politics, process expertise is a vital source of power, and neophyte members and staffers cannot compete with the permanent presence of lobbyists in DC. Term limits will simply give the moneyed interests that much more power.
Use all the democratic institutional and cultural methods available: vote, proselytize, organize, GOTV. If all else fails, there's always peaceful civil disobedience.
I don't think the primaries are "rigged," and I don't think they've produced extreme nominees. The party system will definitely give us nominees who pass broad party litmus tests and there are pros and cons with that. I can't imagine an independent president ever getting anything difficult accomplished, for example, since he would have no base within Congress to appeal to.
Insofar as there is a magic bullet, it's campaign finance reform. We'll never take bribery out of the system entirely, but right now the system actively encourages it.
One thing that always comes up as a solution is term limits, and I am here to tell you that is a terrible, terrible idea. In politics, process expertise is a vital source of power, and neophyte members and staffers cannot compete with the permanent presence of lobbyists in DC. Term limits will simply give the moneyed interests that much more power.
Use all the democratic institutional and cultural methods available: vote, proselytize, organize, GOTV. If all else fails, there's always peaceful civil disobedience.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Too bad your magic bullet requires a constitutional amendment now, Kepler. We only have to convince a few thousand legislators that are already bought and paid for to vote against their personal interest and the interests of those who own them.
Too bad your magic bullet requires a constitutional amendment now, Kepler. We only have to convince a few thousand legislators that are already bought and paid for to vote against their personal interest and the interests of those who own them.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Of course, the other possibility is the GOP actually becoming a party representing Americans rather than the dollars of multinational corporations, but the Republicans have been a lost cause for a generation and I doubt they are going to be a force for anything but plutocracy any time soon.
The other magic bullet would be some sort of impersonal, algorithmic redistricting that completely removed that power from the state legislatures. The whole gerrymandering system is an obscenity perpetrated by both parties.
If you mean because of Citizens United, all you need is a well-timed Democratic president for when the reactionary wall of the Court crumbles. Scalia aint gonna live forever. The Slaughterhouse Cases, Plessy vs Ferguson and Lochner vs New York didn't require a constitutional amendment to fix them -- just an intelligent reading of the Constitution whereby the Court repudiated its mistake.
Of course, the other possibility is the GOP actually becoming a party representing Americans rather than the dollars of multinational corporations, but the Republicans have been a lost cause for a generation and I doubt they are going to be a force for anything but plutocracy any time soon.
The other magic bullet would be some sort of impersonal, algorithmic redistricting that completely removed that power from the state legislatures. The whole gerrymandering system is an obscenity perpetrated by both parties.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
It happens. We have a system which, despite its constant perversion by big money, still occasionally serves the interests of actual humans. Cynicism is a big part of the problem. Don't be that guy:
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
Couple of questions:
If you argue that corporations shouldn't have the right to contribute political money, do you also hold that labor unions shouldn't be able to make monetary contributions as well?
What would you do about the vast amounts of money being poured into the Democratic Party by multinational corporations (ie., Apple, Google, etc.)?
Couple of questions:
If you argue that corporations shouldn't have the right to contribute political money, do you also hold that labor unions shouldn't be able to make monetary contributions as well?
What would you do about the vast amounts of money being poured into the Democratic Party by multinational corporations (ie., Apple, Google, etc.)?
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition
No corporation should be allowed to donate to ANY political campaign or PAC, period. Corporations are business entities, not people.
Unions and trade associations and business associations (such as the Chamber of Commerce) should be allowed provided that they have the majority support (based on a vote) of their members.
No corporation should be allowed to donate to ANY political campaign or PAC, period. Corporations are business entities, not people.
Unions and trade associations and business associations (such as the Chamber of Commerce) should be allowed provided that they have the majority support (based on a vote) of their members.
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