The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How much income will their be letting the bush tax cuts expire?(a t least how much are they projecting). And did Obama ever say the word cut in his little speech today? All I hear is shared sacrifice, does that mean cuts?

They should cut things by decade.


55 and up no cuts.
45 and up some cuts.
35 and up some more cuts.
25 and up some more cuts.
15 and up even more cuts.
0 and up, medicare, medicaid, and social security no longer exist.

Once the debt/benefits are finished and paid out then the payroll taxes can be abolished. Until then we collect the full 12%.

There, I just took care of entitlements and everything else.

And yes, I want them gone. I'm sick of trying to justify their existence to tea party folks.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'll take that one further. I wish I had never gotten sucked into investing into the stock market. Period. I'd rather have taken the safe investment route. I'd be better off today then I am now. They dangle 10% at you and never deliver.

People like to quote the 11% historical average for the last 100 or so years, but the truth is that the market has been flat since the tech bubble burst. The problem is with rates as low as they are currently, the risk premium is so skewed with people chasing returns that they are taking on more risk with stocks than they should given the rates of return. I've held off on making my IRA contribution for 2011 because I'm just not sure where to put it (siting on cash right now isn't the end of the world).

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

They should cut things by decade.


55 and up no cuts.
45 and up some cuts.
35 and up some more cuts.
25 and up some more cuts.
15 and up even more cuts.
0 and up, medicare, medicaid, and social security no longer exist.

Once the debt/benefits are finished and paid out then the payroll taxes can be abolished. Until then we collect the full 12%.

There, I just took care of entitlements and everything else.

And yes, I want them gone. I'm sick of trying to justify their existence to tea party folks.

one of the big problems is that a lot of this stuff is paid for by the current workers to pay for it for past generations of workers. so the more you cut stuff down the road, the more it really shafts future generations, who will be paying a social security tax most of their lives to pay for past generations' benefits, but then get little or nothing themselves. Of course us Gen Xers have come to accept this fate given that we always knew the Boomers would pillage anything previous generations hadn't.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

one of the big problems is that a lot of this stuff is paid for by the current workers to pay for it for past generations of workers. so the more you cut stuff down the road, the more it really shafts future generations, who will be paying a social security tax most of their lives to pay for past generations' benefits, but then get little or nothing themselves. Of course us Gen Xers have come to accept this fate given that we always knew the Boomers would pillage anything previous generations hadn't.

Yeah, I covered that. But it's a poor tax because the 12% that is being taken is taken from the class that the tea party wants to tax. People making less than 250,000 dollars per year. The beauty of my plan is that it doesn't increase job creator taxes, and it eliminates the debt and the deficit. Should be a slam dunk.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

How much income will their be letting the bush tax cuts expire?(a t least how much are they projecting). And did Obama ever say the word cut in his little speech today? All I hear is shared sacrifice, does that mean cuts?

People are so PC and knee jerk reat to the wrong 'words' that no one is saying anything with real meaning except the ones who have no concept of what the consequences of their plans are. The extreme folks blather on and the reactionaries react to the people who are more reasonable. I give up.

They should cut things by decade.


55 and up no cuts.
45 and up some cuts.
35 and up some more cuts.
25 and up some more cuts.
15 and up even more cuts.
0 and up, medicare, medicaid, and social security no longer exist.

Once the debt/benefits are finished and paid out then the payroll taxes can be abolished. Until then we collect the full 12%.

There, I just took care of entitlements and everything else.

And yes, I want them gone. I'm sick of trying to justify their existence to tea party folks.

Great plan except then the hospitals go belly up cos there are so many kids that have parents who can't afford their healthcare.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

one of the big problems is that a lot of this stuff is paid for by the current workers to pay for it for past generations of workers. so the more you cut stuff down the road, the more it really shafts future generations, who will be paying a social security tax most of their lives to pay for past generations' benefits, but then get little or nothing themselves. Of course us Gen Xers have come to accept this fate given that we always knew the Boomers would pillage anything previous generations hadn't.

To be fair, even those boomers who didn't/don't make about 75 didn't/won't get out what they paid in to SS, but they will most likely make that up with Medicare.
But those of use who are under 30 should be planning on having neither SS or Medicare when we retire and save accordingly. Some people think that I'm shortchanging myself now by saving 25% of my income for retirement, but given medical costs and the fact that Medicare (if it even exists) is going to be much more expensive when I retire it seems like the only prudent choice.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Great plan except then the hospitals go belly up cos there are so many kids that have parents who can't afford their healthcare.

Because those under 15 won't have Medicare or social security when they retire the hospitals will go belly up? I don't understand.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Because those under 15 won't have Medicare or social security when they retire the hospitals will go belly up? I don't understand.

Medicaid was included. That is a boatload of kids that would lose coverage. I still want to move to Switzerland where they have a brilliant non-profit plan that isn't gov't run. I am also trying to figure out how to get out of healthcare. Unless you work in a specialty the reimbursement is getting to be so poor and laden with so many witholds that it is hard to keep solvent never mind do what needs to be done. We get penalized for non-compliant patients even if we have documentation they have been told what they need and won't go. You can't fire em and if you are unlucky enough to have a bunch of them then you are screwed. (mini rant!)

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Medicaid was included. That is a boatload of kids that would lose coverage. I still want to move to Switzerland where they have a brilliant non-profit plan that isn't gov't run. I am also trying to figure out how to get out of healthcare. Unless you work in a specialty the reimbursement is getting to be so poor and laden with so many witholds that it is hard to keep solvent never mind do what needs to be done. We get penalized for non-compliant patients even if we have documentation they have been told what they need and won't go. You can't fire em and if you are unlucky enough to have a bunch of them then you are screwed. (mini rant!)

I understand your rant completely. Could not agree more. i was fortunate enough to at least have 1/2 the years of my practice during the 'golden years' when things were far better both for physicians and patients. Personally I think that things have gotten so far out of whack that it cannot be solved or saved.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Medicaid was included. That is a boatload of kids that would lose coverage. I still want to move to Switzerland where they have a brilliant non-profit plan that isn't gov't run. I am also trying to figure out how to get out of healthcare. Unless you work in a specialty the reimbursement is getting to be so poor and laden with so many witholds that it is hard to keep solvent never mind do what needs to be done. We get penalized for non-compliant patients even if we have documentation they have been told what they need and won't go. You can't fire em and if you are unlucky enough to have a bunch of them then you are screwed. (mini rant!)

France is not bad either. Their health care system could work here, but that would mean IIRC getting tort reform and docs on salaries.

The WaPo was less than enthused about El Presidente's speech this afternoon.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No new taxes for job creators.
Trickle down.
Problem solved.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I do wonder just how vast the impact of the right wing media is in terms of the state of the country. The message is really negative, hate, blame. Conservatives right wrong or indifferent...have preferences towards solutions. On right wing radio, its very rare there is a solution proposed.

One could make a case that 'most' of the media is liberal. Even if it were, its not a right wing confrontational.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I do wonder just how vast the impact of the right wing media is in terms of the state of the country. The message is really negative, hate, blame. Conservatives right wrong or indifferent...have preferences towards solutions. On right wing radio, its very rare there is a solution proposed.

One could make a case that 'most' of the media is liberal. Even if it were, its not a right wing confrontational.

No no, the right wing media is just trying to balance out the mainstream media. Even though if you hear Fox tell it they are the most watched and popular. Somehow they are still that little guy on the outside looking in.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

What FOX and right wing media has done is moved the entire discussion to the right with the willing or unwilling help of the rest of the media. I can't count the number of times that some idiot on any of the channels is arguing with a scientist over what should be an obvious fact but is given equal credence and time instead of being rightfully shut up. The extreme right realizes this and just says stupider **** year after year. We were giving legitimate air time to morons who thought someone who made it through a primary against a Clinton was able to forge documents about his birth, hide the proof and convince everyone else not to say anything.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No no, the right wing media is just trying to balance out the mainstream media. Even though if you hear Fox tell it they are the most watched and popular. Somehow they are still that little guy on the outside looking in.

They are the most watched/popular on cable. However, if you add the viewership of CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and the three networks, it's probably about 10-1 in their favor over Fox. Eventually, it won't matter very much because everybody will get their crap of the interwebs.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

They are the most watched/popular on cable. However, if you add the viewership of CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and the three networks, it's probably about 10-1 in their favor over Fox. Eventually, it won't matter very much because everybody will get their crap of the interwebs.

See thats the point. Even if that's true, the vast majority of those 'liberal' networks just give news. How often does CNN or a network come out and directly criticize the right. Very rarely...skipping MSNBC which is a reaction to Fox, I'd love to compare notes on the nature of the attacks by Fox vs. CNN, ABC, etc.

Although the deficit is critically important (giving the tea party a voice at all)...the balance of what the right wing news advocates everything as an attack on the morality of society...and the directly point the finger at Dems and liberals as the source.

IMO rightwing media almost singlehandedly has turned this from a discussion of idea and problem solving to a supposed attack on morality and the creation of an American enemy. In my mind, they are creating an atmosphere where joint problem solving is impossible because 'you don't negotiate with the enemy'. And indeed the Tea Party (and more and more the GOP) doesn't negotiate which results in the Dems being weak or the whole Democratic process collapsing.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

As repugnant as the media arm of the right wing can be, I have to admit that they're pretty funny. Not intentionally, of course, but I am personally amazed at their levels of "screw it, we're just not even going to bother trying to hide it":

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/actual-news-headlines-vs-fox-news-headlines
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/more-fox-news-headlines-vs-actual-news-headlines
Or this one, from when Obama had the gall to have a birthday party.

At a certain point, you just have to see the humor in it. Especially on the cable network, where they often follow up on stuff like this with some sort of whining about the liberal media, or liberal bias in [insert institution here].

No doubt that there are elements of this in the liberal media, where you end up going several steps beyond merely biased reporting. But aside from the Olbermanns of the world, how often is it from a news source mainstream as Fox News? And this says nothing about the pathetic self-pitying victim card that Fox News likes to play regarding how hard it is to be a conservative in a country where roughly half of the voting population identifies as conservative.

Edit: In other words, it's only fair to say that Fox News isn't alone in how shameless they are. It's just that they're the most out there of anyone in the mainstream, and its depressingly funny.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Was out of country until yesterday so missed the last part of the debacle. Have a serious question- before I left every economist I saw, read or heard/read quoted said that to just cut the deficit would have adverse effect on the economy, that there needed to be revenue influx to keep the economy afloat. I try to avoid the extreme stations like fox and msnbc. Are there any economists that are espousing the cut only school of thought? I can't see how, with all the cuts, you would not lose jobs as the various programs have decrease flow of $. Is this something the fiscal conservatives acknowledge and just see as a necessary evil or are they just ignoring that no $ means less jobs. Are there some that just feel there will be no change? This makes no sense to me.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

To be fair, even those boomers who didn't/don't make about 75 didn't/won't get out what they paid in to SS, but they will most likely make that up with Medicare.
But those of use who are under 30 should be planning on having neither SS or Medicare when we retire and save accordingly. Some people think that I'm shortchanging myself now by saving 25% of my income for retirement, but given medical costs and the fact that Medicare (if it even exists) is going to be much more expensive when I retire it seems like the only prudent choice.

Agreed on planning that SS and/or Medicare will be gone. I've always assumed that I'll never get a penny from Social Security, as I'm a Gen Xer that comes right after the baby boomers, so I figure it'll all be sucked dry. My generation was the one in the 1980s that said in a survey that more believed in space aliens than believed they would receive Social Security. It's just a fact of life that younger generations will be on their own for the most part and will be paying the debt for the benefits past generations bestowed upon themselves.

 

[Bill]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Was out of country until yesterday so missed the last part of the debacle. Have a serious question- before I left every economist I saw, read or heard/read quoted said that to just cut the deficit would have adverse effect on the economy, that there needed to be revenue influx to keep the economy afloat. I try to avoid the extreme stations like fox and msnbc. Are there any economists that are espousing the cut only school of thought? I can't see how, with all the cuts, you would not lose jobs as the various programs have decrease flow of $. Is this something the fiscal conservatives acknowledge and just see as a necessary evil or are they just ignoring that no $ means less jobs. Are there some that just feel there will be no change? This makes no sense to me.

Many of the mainstream economists still are followers of Keynes, which means spending and more spending to get yourself out of economic problems, and which is why governments like them. Economists from the Austrian school support major cuts because they say that will help the private sector. i.e. Less government interference with a free market economy. Frankly, I don't think the spending our way out of debt approach is working very well. It certainly makes no sense to me from a private individual (or family) perspective. The Austrian economists say that a growing and expanding private sector will actually produce more revenue to the government.