The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

"Conservatives" don't care much about social issues; or they certainly don't agree on which side to take if they do. You're probably thinking of "Republicans"... a very common misunderstanding.
Again, the example of GW Bush - a liberal president and big spending, government control guy; but he also supported Evangelical social views.

I understand what you are saying here but I have yet to see any evidence of these mythical creatures called conservatives. The only Republican running for President that even approaches this mythical standard is Ron Paul and he is certifiably insane.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

"Conservatives" don't care much about social issues; or they certainly don't agree on which side to take if they do. You're probably thinking of "Republicans"... a very common misunderstanding.
Again, the example of GW Bush - a liberal president and big spending, government control guy; but he also supported Evangelical social views.

There are different types of conservatives. Social conservatives are a very different animal than economic conservatives. At times people are both, but there's lots of people that are only one or the other. That's one of the greatest on-going tensions in the Republican tent, as these two types generally don't mix well.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

More to the point - Yoopers.



Sorry

Do you know this guy? He frequents the MTU campus. It's actually weirdly compelling stuff to read.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I understand what you are saying here but I have yet to see any evidence of these mythical creatures called conservatives. The only Republican running for President that even approaches this mythical standard is Ron Paul and he is certifiably insane.

I have made this point before; there are no conservative candidates. I'm a very conservative person, and right now I'm leaning Obama for 2012.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I understand what you are saying here but I have yet to see any evidence of these mythical creatures called conservatives. The only Republican running for President that even approaches this mythical standard is Ron Paul and he is certifiably insane.

Great example. You never go on about liberals like this. You liberal Obama-loving shill. You probably tape all his speeches and listen to them over and over.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Never heard back from you on my post listing a bunch of ways I disagree with the Republicans.


As for opportunities to act stupid, there's plenty to take shots at across the political spectrum these days, and only a hardcore partisan would say otherwise. But, that's apparently how you call it, so you define yourself thereby.

I don't go after liberals because there's no point; the current axis of discussion is somewhere to the right of Ronald Reagan. In that context, why would I worry about the Howard Deans and Ralph Naders of the world? Nothing they do or say has any consequence, since the pendulum is too far away.

Meanwhile, Bachmann and Perry are legitimate presidential contenders. And they scare the bejeezus out of me as a moderate to center-right voter (in decades past, I probably would've fallen under the Rockefeller Republican label). All else being equal, I'm not going to bash the center left when the alternatives are solid right to far right. If/when the political center shifts back towards the center, and the GOP starts backing more moderates, then I'm sure my criticism will likewise even out again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that I'm no longer a registered Republican says more about today's GOP than it does about my political stances. I didn't leave the GOP, it left me when it sold out to the derp brigade.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Great example. You never go on about liberals like this. You liberal Obama-loving shill. You probably tape all his speeches and listen to them over and over.

ROTFLMAO

I have made this point before; there are no conservative candidates. I'm a very conservative person, and right now I'm leaning Obama for 2012.

He's more conservative than Romney or Perry, that's for sure. Perry might be almost as dangerous Bush II if he gets elected.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I don't go after liberals because there's no point; the current axis of discussion is somewhere to the right of Ronald Reagan. In that context, why would I worry about the Howard Deans and Ralph Naders of the world? Nothing they do or say has any consequence, since the pendulum is too far away.

Meanwhile, Bachmann and Perry are legitimate presidential contenders. And they scare the bejeezus out of me as a moderate to center-right voter (in decades past, I probably would've fallen under the Rockefeller Republican label). All else being equal, I'm not going to bash the center left when the alternatives are solid right to far right. If/when the political center shifts back towards the center, and the GOP starts backing more moderates, then I'm sure my criticism will likewise even out again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that I'm no longer a registered Republican says more about today's GOP than it does about my political stances. I didn't leave the GOP, it left me when it sold out to the derp brigade.

Still didn't hear back from you on my posting of lots of ways I disagree with the Republicans.

I guess the rest of that is all a matter of perspective. I see someone like Bush, a supposed conservative, blowing up the federal budget and pushing through a huge new prescription drug program (that isn't paid for), and then Obama comes in, makes Bush look almost spendthrift, and keeps pushing more liberal social agendas, and I come to a quite different conclusion than you do.

Neither party backs moderates. I agree that there aren't moderates on the Republican side nearly as much, and it is a loss in many ways, but the exact same has happened on the Democratic side, which you don't mention. Just color me skeptical that you focus on the Republican side and their foibles (which are many), but stay silent when there's lots on the other side to take issue with also.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I have made this point before; there are no conservative candidates. I'm a very conservative person, and right now I'm leaning Obama for 2012.

Huntsman and Gary Johnson are two GOP candidates I could vote for in a heart beat. Too bad combined they'll get fewer votes than Howard ***** Cain.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Do you know this guy? He frequents the MTU campus. It's actually weirdly compelling stuff to read.

I Googled him - looks like he rubs elbows with the art department, and I never spent much time on that end of campus. It's been a couple years since I was up there anyway, there could be a new crop of nuts running around campus by now. And "Chev."? He's a French knight? Huh?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Still didn't hear back from you on my posting of lots of ways I disagree with the Republicans.

I guess the rest of that is all a matter of perspective. I see someone like Bush, a supposed conservative, blowing up the federal budget and pushing through a huge new prescription drug program (that isn't paid for), and then Obama comes in, makes Bush look almost spendthrift, and keeps pushing more liberal social agendas, and I come to a quite different conclusion than you do.

Neither party backs moderates. I agree that there aren't moderates on the Republican side nearly as much, and it is a loss in many ways, but the exact same has happened on the Democratic side, which you don't mention. Just color me skeptical that you focus on the Republican side and their foibles (which are many), but stay silent when there's lots on the other side to take issue with also.

All of Obama's spending has been on the wars and keeping the economy afloat. EVERY economist on the planet right or left agrees that if Obama hadn't done what he did on the economy (which was a center-right strategy, not a liberal one) we would have entered a Depression. I guess the Republican party now wishes that's the way we would have gone cause they want to let all the air out of any economic activity we have left.

The middle class built this country and it is being systematically destroyed by the left and the right. But, mostly right because they're the ones who have been in power and have set government policy for the last 30 years. That's what makes Obama being labeled a socialist so comical. He doesn't even come close. But since he hasn't defended DOMA, and did what the military told him to do on don't ask don't tell (OMG the Gays) he's somehow left of Dennis Kucinich.

There really is no hope.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There are different types of conservatives. Social conservatives are a very different animal than economic conservatives. At times people are both, but there's lots of people that are only one or the other. That's one of the greatest on-going tensions in the Republican tent, as these two types generally don't mix well.

This is true, and it's been interesting to see that coalition hold up over the years. The Tea Party seems to have formed from the intersection of the two sets, and that's caused discomfort because it's served to highlight that many Republicans aren't in the intersection. There are at least four major groups under the GOP umbrella: Wall Street finance capitalists (Romney), "I miss the good old days" middle class moderates (Huntsman), fundamentalist Christian social conservatives (Bachmann), and minarchist anti-Fed libertarians (Paul). Some of their goals are mutually exclusive. They've done a great job keeping enough of the coalition together to be more than the sum of their parts, which is the point of organizing for political power.

The Republicans have been the more effective political party over the last generation. They have been able to frame a majority of political battles in their terms, and that's just as important as the final head count -- in some ways it predetermines it. "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war."

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

He's more conservative than Romney or Perry, that's for sure. Perry might be almost as dangerous Bush II if he gets elected.

You ever see the movie The Dead Zone? Martin Sheen played a candidate who was going to cause WWIII. That guy is Perry. Perry is not just crazy, he is downright dangerous. He will do more to destroy America than 4 terms of Bush II could ever do. He is a male version of Bachmann only he is calculated crazy not dumbphuk crazy

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You ever see the movie The Dead Zone? Martin Sheen played a candidate who was going to cause WWIII. That guy is Perry. Perry is not just crazy, he is downright dangerous. He will do more to destroy America than 4 terms of Bush II could ever do. He is a male version of Bachmann only he is calculated crazy not dumbphuk crazy

I have not only seen the movie. I read the book. One of my favorite Stephen King novels.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You ever see the movie The Dead Zone? Martin Sheen played a candidate who was going to cause WWIII. That guy is Perry. Perry is not just crazy, he is downright dangerous. He will do more to destroy America than 4 terms of Bush II could ever do. He is a male version of Bachmann only he is calculated crazy not dumbphuk crazy

Never saw the movie, read the book a couple of times and am going through the TV series (with Anthony Michael Hall as Johnny Smith) on Netflix. Greg Stillson is an interesting villain, to be sure. I like the ending of the book, though.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That is a fascinating movie. Christopher Walken was excellent in it.

It is interesting to observe how much each side of the spectrum sees the other sides' leaders or potential leaders as being so dangerous.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That is a fascinating movie. Christopher Walken was excellent in it.

It is interesting to observe how much each side of the spectrum sees the other sides' leaders or potential leaders as being so dangerous.

Nader and Dean would've been just as nutso as Perry or Bachmann, but then Nader was never anything more than a spoiler candidate and Dean, unlike Bachmann, was jettisoned after his first W T F moment.

Kerry was simply the other side of the coin of Romney.

Obama is strikingly similar to Nixon in many ways.

 

[Carter]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

and then Obama comes in, makes Bush look almost spendthrift

I've told you before about that word, haven't I?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It is interesting to observe how much each side of the spectrum sees the other sides' leaders or potential leaders as being so dangerous.

It's also interesting to live in a center right country that's been governed mostly from the right for the last 30 years call its President a socialist while he governs from the right. I can't imagine how these Tea Party Conservatives folks would react if a Jimmy Carter, or LBJ ever got elected again. They'd probably join Perry in an active secession of the South. After all we need another war.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I've told you before about that word, haven't I?

Ah, yes. As one gets older, one forgets at times.