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Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Was Social Security and Medicare withheld? If not, that needs to be reported and paid.

Those were both taken out already...

IDK... My dad made a big deal about doing the 1040A over the 1040EZ because of student loan interest... After fumbling through the numbers, it just seems like a moot point.... Basically I am just wondering if I wasted time with the 1040A... That's why I asked the question...
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Those were both taken out already...

IDK... My dad made a big deal about doing the 1040A over the 1040EZ because of student loan interest... After fumbling through the numbers, it just seems like a moot point.... Basically I am just wondering if I wasted time with the 1040A... That's why I asked the question...

You didn't waste time with it. Honestly, you might as well get used to filling out the longer forms, and what everything means in association. Once I got out of college, I decided to do 1040 instead of 1040A because of Moving Expenses, but then found out the very next year that I was required to fill out 1040 because of stock selling. The experience helped. I could never do 1040EZ, anyway, because of capital gains.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

So, I want to stab someone with a pencil...

I didn't get any Federal Income Tax Withheld from either of my two jobs... That means a $0 Federal refund right? Should I even calculate Loan Interest into all this then? I mean, it seems pointless... It's gonna be $0 any way I figure this, right?

Just because you didn't get any withheld doesn't mean you won't owe anything...depends how much you made at each job.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

If you don't have your W-2's yet, complain to the company, and possibly report it, as they needed to be mailed by January 31st.

Stock brokers have until February 15th to compile their 1099's.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

I forgot that before this brain tumor I bought stock in AIG. Thanks to the reverse split they did I now have all of 3 shares in the company which resulted in a net gain of $6.27. I didn't include that whopping investment in my tax return. I won't end up in the Big House will I?
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

I forgot that before this brain tumor I bought stock in AIG. Thanks to the reverse split they did I now have all of 3 shares in the company which resulted in a net gain of $6.27. I didn't include that whopping investment in my tax return. I won't end up in the Big House will I?

Since it's under $10, it's considered "De Minimis", and so you won't.

If only I could pick up chicks like that guy in the elevator during that H&R Block Tax Training Course commercial...
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

I don't think anyone can make a wrong choice when choosing between paying down debt or saving/investing. Personally I agree with Bob that paying down debt is a better choice over investing the money for the simple reason of cash flow (as Bob states). I also don't think that the return over the debt payments is enough to compensate for the risk that one must take on to get that return.

Even if you think that you can earn a return of 3% over your mortgage (after accounting for all the tax implications with regards to both the taxes on the investment and the mortgage interest) would that really be enough to justify the risk that is associated with the stock market? Would you invest in the stock market knowing that on average you would only get a 3% return (on average)?

I understand about leverage and the velocity of money and fully admit that the person who invest over paying off his mortgage will come out ahead of me provided that nothing goes two wrong, I've seen enough to recognize that expecting nothing to ever go wrong isn't a realistic way to view the world.

While I don't agree with everything that Dave Ramsey says, I do think that he has the order of steps (even if the specific details may not fit your specific situation) that most people should follow down:
1.) Save a small emergency fund
2.) Pay off all non-mortgage debt
3.) Save a large catastrophe fund (2 months of expenses, plus 2 month for every person in the household)
4.) Put 15% of income in tax advantage retirement funds
5.) Save ~10% for children's education and other intermediate goals
6.) Pay off any mortgage debt remaining.
7.) Save, invest, and build wealth.

I am sticking with a 9-month emergency fund. I really think 2 months is cutting yourself a bit short.

Regarding the order, I say:
1. Monthly obligations (mortgage, electricity, food, etc.) - If a person doesn't have a full emergency fund, he or she has no business getting into a long-term debt like a mortgage. Of course, this list doesn't apply to someone who is forced into dipping into an emergency fund.
2. Non-mortgage debt
3. Retirement, minimum of 15% off the bat, 20% is ideal.
4. Intermediate goals
5. Other non-retirement savings, investments, etc.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

I am sticking with a 9-month emergency fund. I really think 2 months is cutting yourself a bit short.

That's 2 months of expenses PLUS two month for each person. As a single guy that would give me 4 months (assuming that I didn't change my spending habits if I lost my income source). But I'm single and I don't have anyone who I need to support or anything tying me to any specific area. If I had a house, I'd want a year of housing costs PLUS the 2 months + 2 months per person of non-housing expenses.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

I'd want a year of housing costs PLUS the 2 months + 2 months per person of non-housing expenses.

Jeebus. I thought I was being conservative.

Although come to think of it, with the nine months emergency fund, I've included my mortgage plus average monthly spending, including entertainment (which seems slightly silly to include in an emergency fund). I'll have about 12 months of mortgage payments plus enough for food, utilities, gas for the car, and an extra $200-$300 for extras.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Jeebus. I thought I was being conservative.

Although come to think of it, with the nine months emergency fund, I've included my mortgage plus average monthly spending, including entertainment (which seems slightly silly to include in an emergency fund). I'll have about 12 months of mortgage payments plus enough for food, utilities, gas for the car, and an extra $200-$300 for extras.

The issue with an Emergency fund is what potential types of "emergencies" can you face.

As a young single who rents, with the exception of a major medical problem, I can't foresee any reasons why I need to have more than $10k in an emergency fund.

For someone who actually owns a home, you have many potential expenses to consider: major maintenance and repairs, the costs associated with selling or carrying two residences. You have more responsibilities, thus you need a larger emergency fund.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

The issue with an Emergency fund is what potential types of "emergencies" can you face.

As a young single who rents, with the exception of a major medical problem, I can't foresee any reasons why I need to have more than $10k in an emergency fund.

For someone who actually owns a home, you have many potential expenses to consider: major maintenance and repairs, the costs associated with selling or carrying two residences. You have more responsibilities, thus you need a larger emergency fund.

Exactly. I think you and I share a lot of the same ideas on fiscal priorities and responsibility.

Anyways, back on the subject of taxes. This guy isn't going to have a fun time filing next year:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/technology/zuckerberg_tax_bill/

OUCH!!!
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Yeah, poor guy.... :)

Reminds me the time my uncle was starting a business and needed help from a lawyer. The business was strapped, so he cut the lawyer a deal for partial ownership of the company. Over time, he became a bit agitated that perhaps he had paid the lawyer too much, until my father pointed out, "If I were you, I would hope that I did make that lawyer a millionaire, because that would make me a multi-millionaire!"
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

But but but...

BILLIONAIRES DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!

He could pay zero in taxes by not buying shares of Facebook for $0.06 each, he could also save ~$500 million by not living in CA. Do I think that he should have to pay full income tax rate on stock that he would continue to hold, No. This is just one more example of how messed up the tax system is.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

He could pay zero in taxes by not buying shares of Facebook for $0.06 each, he could also save ~$500 million by not living in CA. Do I think that he should have to pay full income tax rate on stock that he would continue to hold, No. This is just one more example of how messed up the tax system is.

He could also save a bunch of money on his car insurance by switching to Geico. :D

You have to explain this whole paying taxes on holding stock, though... (unless dividends are involved)
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

He could also save a bunch of money on his car insurance by switching to Geico. :D

You have to explain this whole paying taxes on holding stock, though... (unless dividends are involved)

It sounds like he has to report the value of the stock option (Actual value-option price) as income and pay taxes on it even if he doesn't sell any of the stock. Thus, to cover the taxes he will have to sell roughly 40% of the stock. I don't understand why that is considered regular income, but if you operate a hedge fund your income is taxed as capital gains because of the carried interest exception.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

It sounds like he has to report the value of the stock option (Actual value-option price) as income and pay taxes on it even if he doesn't sell any of the stock. Thus, to cover the taxes he will have to sell roughly 40% of the stock. I don't understand why that is considered regular income, but if you operate a hedge fund your income is taxed as capital gains because of the carried interest exception.

Oh, non-qualified option. It's because the company is basically handing you (price - 0.06 per share) in money to invest, and so it is considered income. I'm not sure how you'd report that, though.
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Are you guys sure about that?

Why aren't employee stock purchase programs immediately taxed then...? Is that a specific type of program that isn't anything like this or...?
 
Re: Tax Season 2012: Work No Longer Pays

Are you guys sure about that?

Why aren't employee stock purchase programs immediately taxed then...? Is that a specific type of program that isn't anything like this or...?

Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOP) is a special kind of vehicle. An ESOP Trust is set up to purchase the stock from existing ownership and hold it on behalf of the employees. There is no immediate direct ownership by any particular individual. They pay income tax at ordinary income tax rates when the terms of the plan are met (usually they don't get actual stock when they cash out, just cash). There are all sorts of technicalities that I prefer to gloss over.

With Zuckerberg, he has some kind of conditional option, not sure how to explain it. With a vested option, I may be wrong, but if I understand correctly, when you exercised them, I think from $0 to the option price is ordinary income and from the option price to the selling price is capital gains tax but only when you sell. Zuckerberg might have some of those as well, these are some other kind of option that has some funky rule such that the entire IPO price is taxable as ordinary income; however, if he holds on to some those shares (e.g., he sells 40% and keeps 60%) then any gain above the IPO price is taxed as capital gain and only at time of sale.

There actually is a sensible reason behind it, though don't ask me to fully explain, or defend, it.

I had a related situation on a much much smaller scale when my life insurance company demutualized, and we received a few shares of stock.
 
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