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Summer reading for Umile and crew
- Thread starter unh_hockey
- Start date
UNHhockey29
You may be wild but I'm Wilder
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
UNH has discussed doing this, but it would cause more headaches. The seating would be AWFUL in the first few rows as there would be no incline.
UNH has discussed doing this, but it would cause more headaches. The seating would be AWFUL in the first few rows as there would be no incline.
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
How many simply "capable" teams have won a national championship? Versus talented teams? Sure there's no restriction preventing a cinderella team from winning it all, but the odds have got to be enormously against it happenning making it,for all practical purposes, impossible. My point is/was, and maybe I misinterpreted his comments, that to be capable of winning the NC your team must be on a relative par with the other top caliber teams talent-wise to make any sort of a legitimate run at it. And especially where UNH is recruited/groomed to win on the big sheet, their chances are substantially reduced imo.
How many simply "capable" teams have won a national championship? Versus talented teams? Sure there's no restriction preventing a cinderella team from winning it all, but the odds have got to be enormously against it happenning making it,for all practical purposes, impossible. My point is/was, and maybe I misinterpreted his comments, that to be capable of winning the NC your team must be on a relative par with the other top caliber teams talent-wise to make any sort of a legitimate run at it. And especially where UNH is recruited/groomed to win on the big sheet, their chances are substantially reduced imo.
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I anticipated your first question, but am too lazy and way too incapable of assessing one team's talent over another. And what metric would be used? I'd leave it to others to hash that out.
Anyway, the answer I had in my mind was probably "very few", or "none". My point was that the team with greater talent doesn't always win the game. There are less tangible factors as well, including the coaching staff, team leadership, and just plain luck sometimes.
As to your last point, that doesn't mean that there is necessarily an imbalance of talent. Minny plays on the big sheet, and has had NC success.
I anticipated your first question, but am too lazy and way too incapable of assessing one team's talent over another. And what metric would be used? I'd leave it to others to hash that out.
Anyway, the answer I had in my mind was probably "very few", or "none". My point was that the team with greater talent doesn't always win the game. There are less tangible factors as well, including the coaching staff, team leadership, and just plain luck sometimes.
As to your last point, that doesn't mean that there is necessarily an imbalance of talent. Minny plays on the big sheet, and has had NC success.
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I think if UNH wins that 1999 NC, everything would be different today. Maybe they get that one recruit to commit who they ultimately lost, etc. Up to 1999, I always looked to UNH as an overachiever (especially after the 1998 upset of Boston U).
Since then, they have, probably unfairly, have the reputation of an underachiever. The 2000 loss to Niagara, the meltdowns in the Frozen Fours, the consistent Hockey East playoff losses, etc.
Boston College similarly had an underachieving reputation after 2000 but they turned it around and won 2 banners over the next 7 or so years. UNH will get one eventually and maybe these ghosts will finally be exorcised.
I think if UNH wins that 1999 NC, everything would be different today. Maybe they get that one recruit to commit who they ultimately lost, etc. Up to 1999, I always looked to UNH as an overachiever (especially after the 1998 upset of Boston U).
Since then, they have, probably unfairly, have the reputation of an underachiever. The 2000 loss to Niagara, the meltdowns in the Frozen Fours, the consistent Hockey East playoff losses, etc.
Boston College similarly had an underachieving reputation after 2000 but they turned it around and won 2 banners over the next 7 or so years. UNH will get one eventually and maybe these ghosts will finally be exorcised.
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I agree the team with the most talent (however measured) doesnt always win it all. (Maine 1999)....it surely seems to be a difference maker though. As far as Minnesota goes, chit there is no team evah as talented as the goofs, or at least so we're told.
I agree the team with the most talent (however measured) doesnt always win it all. (Maine 1999)....it surely seems to be a difference maker though. As far as Minnesota goes, chit there is no team evah as talented as the goofs, or at least so we're told.
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Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I agree, in my opinion, these were the most talented teams over the last handful of years:
2000 - Wisconsin/Boston College
2001 - Michigan State
2002 - Minnesota *
2003 - New Hampshire
2004 - Boston College
2005 - North Dakota
2006 - Wisconsin *
2007 - Boston College
2008 - Michigan/Miami
2009 - Boston U. *
* won title
It takes skill to make it to the Frozen Four, but I still think it takes puck luck to win it.
I agree the team with the most talent (however measured) doesnt always win it all.....it surely seems to be a difference maker though. As far as Minnesota goes, chit there is no team evah as talented as the goofs, or at least so we're told.
I agree, in my opinion, these were the most talented teams over the last handful of years:
2000 - Wisconsin/Boston College
2001 - Michigan State
2002 - Minnesota *
2003 - New Hampshire
2004 - Boston College
2005 - North Dakota
2006 - Wisconsin *
2007 - Boston College
2008 - Michigan/Miami
2009 - Boston U. *
* won title
It takes skill to make it to the Frozen Four, but I still think it takes puck luck to win it.
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Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
You're actually correct. Last week I posted here and compared the "big sheet" to the Red Sox in Fenway. They RELIED on one style (long ball and outscoring opponents) and NEVER won until they realized that they needed to develop the things that truly wind...i.e., pitching and defense. UNH is an exciting team to watch and they skate better than anyone in Hockey East (and I KNOW after having seen them outskate us (BU) year in and year out). But I challenge you to go back to yesterday's tape and show me ONE TIME when a UNH player dumped an RIT player on his ***. They just stood around and watched in their end. It was almost as if they were saying, "OK, let's get this part over with so we can go play offense again." Like it or not, the game is the game. I prefer the "finess" game, but the reality is the players are too big and too fast today, and there is just NO ROOM anymore on the NHL-sized sheet. You have no time and space and MUST be able to grind and get "dirty" goals - as they say, get the puck to the net and get in front of the goalie. BU takes the opposite approach - they try to do what you do in basketball - swing the ball or make a "skip" pass over the top. In other words, they make that diagonal pass and try to score on a one-timer into an empty net. The problem with that is, you need HIGHLY skilled players. That's the only reason they won last year. It was 14 years since and 17 years before that. You can't be one dimension. BU used to have those small, fast teams like UNH, but lately Parker has gone "bigger." Neither way works alone. It's just simple reality. If you don't believe me, get a copy of last night's Wisconsin / St. Cloud State game. It was scary. Wisconsin simply POUNDED St. Cloud with crushing hit after curshing hit. And then they skated by them like they were standing still. They are the FASTEST team AND the most PHYSICAL team, which is why they will win. Whether it's talent, style of play, or a little of both, you have to have BOTH today, or you don't win. BU has size and not enough speed, UNH has speed and is not physical enough. It is what it is. I thought the Olympics four years ago, on the big sheet, was MUCH more entertaining, because it was pure skating and that really allow the palyers to display their skill. But until the NHL WANTS to rid the game of the enforcers (just watch any game, not just Marc Savard getting hit), this is the way it will be, like it or not. I love to watch UNH play because of their style of game, but they ain't winning any national championships this way...ever.
You're actually correct. Last week I posted here and compared the "big sheet" to the Red Sox in Fenway. They RELIED on one style (long ball and outscoring opponents) and NEVER won until they realized that they needed to develop the things that truly wind...i.e., pitching and defense. UNH is an exciting team to watch and they skate better than anyone in Hockey East (and I KNOW after having seen them outskate us (BU) year in and year out). But I challenge you to go back to yesterday's tape and show me ONE TIME when a UNH player dumped an RIT player on his ***. They just stood around and watched in their end. It was almost as if they were saying, "OK, let's get this part over with so we can go play offense again." Like it or not, the game is the game. I prefer the "finess" game, but the reality is the players are too big and too fast today, and there is just NO ROOM anymore on the NHL-sized sheet. You have no time and space and MUST be able to grind and get "dirty" goals - as they say, get the puck to the net and get in front of the goalie. BU takes the opposite approach - they try to do what you do in basketball - swing the ball or make a "skip" pass over the top. In other words, they make that diagonal pass and try to score on a one-timer into an empty net. The problem with that is, you need HIGHLY skilled players. That's the only reason they won last year. It was 14 years since and 17 years before that. You can't be one dimension. BU used to have those small, fast teams like UNH, but lately Parker has gone "bigger." Neither way works alone. It's just simple reality. If you don't believe me, get a copy of last night's Wisconsin / St. Cloud State game. It was scary. Wisconsin simply POUNDED St. Cloud with crushing hit after curshing hit. And then they skated by them like they were standing still. They are the FASTEST team AND the most PHYSICAL team, which is why they will win. Whether it's talent, style of play, or a little of both, you have to have BOTH today, or you don't win. BU has size and not enough speed, UNH has speed and is not physical enough. It is what it is. I thought the Olympics four years ago, on the big sheet, was MUCH more entertaining, because it was pure skating and that really allow the palyers to display their skill. But until the NHL WANTS to rid the game of the enforcers (just watch any game, not just Marc Savard getting hit), this is the way it will be, like it or not. I love to watch UNH play because of their style of game, but they ain't winning any national championships this way...ever.
SPIN CONTROL
is in charge
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I think this book might help....
http://www.amazon.com/Choking-Start...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269801364&sr=1-2
I think this book might help....
http://www.amazon.com/Choking-Start...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269801364&sr=1-2
MagnessMan
D-1 Hockey Nut
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
The psychology of one and done tourney hockey is fascinating. I saw all three games in Albany. UNH was on both ends of the momentum wave this weekend. RIT was loose as can be. They had nothing to lose. What an amazing weekend for their program--earth shattering. When it's all said in done, it's an amazingly positive occurrence for D-1 hockey. They stayed with their game plans and worked hard for 120 minutes. Denver knows better than anyone that making it to the tourney is no guarantee that you'll go to the four. Blaming your coach while attractive given his struggle with winning the big game is a cop out. Have some class and give the young program the credit they deserve and move on.
The psychology of one and done tourney hockey is fascinating. I saw all three games in Albany. UNH was on both ends of the momentum wave this weekend. RIT was loose as can be. They had nothing to lose. What an amazing weekend for their program--earth shattering. When it's all said in done, it's an amazingly positive occurrence for D-1 hockey. They stayed with their game plans and worked hard for 120 minutes. Denver knows better than anyone that making it to the tourney is no guarantee that you'll go to the four. Blaming your coach while attractive given his struggle with winning the big game is a cop out. Have some class and give the young program the credit they deserve and move on.
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
Perhaps the most insightful post I've read all season.
Last night, Hardowa cleanly creamed a guy in the 1st period and he (i.e., Hardowa) barely played the rest of the game. Burke's hit, when the RIT player fell into the boards and lost his helmet, resulted in a penalty and Burke was nonaggressive for the rest of the game. Thompson, who was effectively aggressive against Cornell, threw few, if any checks last night. Oh well, something to improve on next season.
Perhaps the most insightful post I've read all season.
Last night, Hardowa cleanly creamed a guy in the 1st period and he (i.e., Hardowa) barely played the rest of the game. Burke's hit, when the RIT player fell into the boards and lost his helmet, resulted in a penalty and Burke was nonaggressive for the rest of the game. Thompson, who was effectively aggressive against Cornell, threw few, if any checks last night. Oh well, something to improve on next season.
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btb91
Black Bear
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
Out of all the college hockey coaches, only a handful have consistently put successful teams on the ice. Though it pains me to say it, Umile is one of those coaches.
Out of that pool of coaches, only a very few are "big game" coaches. A "big game" coach is one who is able to prepare effectively for multiple or uncertain opponents, can inspire their players to walk through brick walls, and make successful adjustments during a game that make a real difference. Hockey East has two such coaches in Jerry York and Jack Parker. We had three when Shawn Walsh was at Maine. Umile has not proven to me that he falls in that category. And for the record, TIMMAY is NOT in that category, and I would not even put TIMMAY in the category of a coach who consistently puts a successful team on the ice.
Sure it is possible for Umile and UNH to win the NC someday. Umile has UNH in the running enough times that the law of averages comes into play. The risk comes in trying to find that "big game" coach, since not only are they hard to find, you run the risk of losing ground in the process.
The devil you know...
Out of all the college hockey coaches, only a handful have consistently put successful teams on the ice. Though it pains me to say it, Umile is one of those coaches.
Out of that pool of coaches, only a very few are "big game" coaches. A "big game" coach is one who is able to prepare effectively for multiple or uncertain opponents, can inspire their players to walk through brick walls, and make successful adjustments during a game that make a real difference. Hockey East has two such coaches in Jerry York and Jack Parker. We had three when Shawn Walsh was at Maine. Umile has not proven to me that he falls in that category. And for the record, TIMMAY is NOT in that category, and I would not even put TIMMAY in the category of a coach who consistently puts a successful team on the ice.
Sure it is possible for Umile and UNH to win the NC someday. Umile has UNH in the running enough times that the law of averages comes into play. The risk comes in trying to find that "big game" coach, since not only are they hard to find, you run the risk of losing ground in the process.
The devil you know...
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
Churchard is far from the problem. The guy is an amazing teacher and I've heard the players love him.
Churchard is far from the problem. The guy is an amazing teacher and I've heard the players love him.
superfan11
New member
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
i really like this post onion man.... i agree with all of your picks cept 2.... for sake of argument i'd disagree with '01, '03, and i'd split '05 between ndakota and denver (matt carle, paul stastny, gabe gauthier, et al.) but i can't disagree with you saying ndakota for that year.
'01- i feel bc was more talented than michigan st (outside of ryan miller let's be fair)... 8 seniors including brian gionta, rob scuderi, bobby allen, and scott clemmensen, as well as brooks orpik, krys kolanos, chuck kobasew, ben eaves, tony voce, etc.
'03- i'd say minnesota had more talent than unh... paul martin, grant potulny, thomas vanek, barry tallackson, matt koalska, etc.... also, unh had lanny gare out injured but apart from him i don't think sean collins, steve saviano, and crew (ayers was a solid goalie and minnesota had travis webber so point for unh there) quite stacked up to the gophers.
.... this would be a great discussion for a new thread!!!
i really like this post onion man.... i agree with all of your picks cept 2.... for sake of argument i'd disagree with '01, '03, and i'd split '05 between ndakota and denver (matt carle, paul stastny, gabe gauthier, et al.) but i can't disagree with you saying ndakota for that year.
'01- i feel bc was more talented than michigan st (outside of ryan miller let's be fair)... 8 seniors including brian gionta, rob scuderi, bobby allen, and scott clemmensen, as well as brooks orpik, krys kolanos, chuck kobasew, ben eaves, tony voce, etc.
'03- i'd say minnesota had more talent than unh... paul martin, grant potulny, thomas vanek, barry tallackson, matt koalska, etc.... also, unh had lanny gare out injured but apart from him i don't think sean collins, steve saviano, and crew (ayers was a solid goalie and minnesota had travis webber so point for unh there) quite stacked up to the gophers.
.... this would be a great discussion for a new thread!!!
Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
I think one of the problems is that the players aren't held accountable for their actions on the ice. Take a dumb penalty or make a bonehead play, it doesn't matter, Umile sends them over the boards for their next shift. Parker or York would have them sitting in neverland until they woke up.
Hockey is a physical game and needs to be played with an edge, UNH doesn't have those type of players. Forwards from other teams are very comfortable hacking away in close and doing the dirty work. Until we recruit size we are going to have this problem. Same thing on the other end, our forwards are always looking up from the seat of their pants. Goals don't need to be pretty, they just have to go over the goal line to count. Guts and determination go a long way to neutralize the talent of another team.
The ice size at the Whit does hurt recruiting, what legit kid wants to play on an ice surface that he will never see again except in hte Olympics. Who cares about the seating issue, don't sit there.
I think one of the problems is that the players aren't held accountable for their actions on the ice. Take a dumb penalty or make a bonehead play, it doesn't matter, Umile sends them over the boards for their next shift. Parker or York would have them sitting in neverland until they woke up.
Hockey is a physical game and needs to be played with an edge, UNH doesn't have those type of players. Forwards from other teams are very comfortable hacking away in close and doing the dirty work. Until we recruit size we are going to have this problem. Same thing on the other end, our forwards are always looking up from the seat of their pants. Goals don't need to be pretty, they just have to go over the goal line to count. Guts and determination go a long way to neutralize the talent of another team.
The ice size at the Whit does hurt recruiting, what legit kid wants to play on an ice surface that he will never see again except in hte Olympics. Who cares about the seating issue, don't sit there.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Work beats talent ... unless talent works
Work beats talent ... unless talent works
I still have much love for the UMaine-iacs. And this is right on the money.
Work beats talent ... unless talent works
I still have much love for the UMaine-iacs.
And this is right on the money.
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Re: Summer reading for Umile and crew
It's certainly a fun discussion here and its all subjective. The reason why I picked MSU in 2001 is because they had Ryan Miller and rolled through the season. They beat BC pretty easily in the GLI that year.
I think you forget how dominant New Hampshire was in 2003. Probably could have split that year with Minnesota, but I think if UNH and Minnesota played ten times, UNH would have won six of them.
Like I said, its a fun debate.
It's certainly a fun discussion here and its all subjective. The reason why I picked MSU in 2001 is because they had Ryan Miller and rolled through the season. They beat BC pretty easily in the GLI that year.
I think you forget how dominant New Hampshire was in 2003. Probably could have split that year with Minnesota, but I think if UNH and Minnesota played ten times, UNH would have won six of them.
Like I said, its a fun debate.