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Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

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Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

Rover said:
Flaggy I say again I think if you got some female companionship you'd be less angry out here. Regardless of who gets the credit/fault at some point normal people would acknowledge a shrinking deficit from previous years is a good thing, which is not mutually exclusive with the idea that deficits need to come down even further.
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It is true that this difference is a good thing. One thing you can say that causes much of the partisanship is the method of execution. It reminds me of GWB's 2007 State of the Union address. In the first phrase of any actual information about the country, he says he intends to balance the budget, and everyone stands up and cheers. His next phrase is that he's going to do it without raising taxes, and only one side stands up and cheers.

My point, though, is from a standpoint of resting on laurels. We're not yet at a point when we can celebrate. The only time that's going to happen is when the national debt is at $0.00, and that isn't going to happen any time soon. I know you like to gloat, but this isn't the time to do it. We still have a fiscal issue to solve. We're not out of the hole yet, not even the hole by year.

As for your gripe about female companionship, I'd like to know what that has to do with anything?
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
It is true that this difference is a good thing. One thing you can say that causes much of the partisanship is the method of execution. It reminds me of GWB's 2007 State of the Union address. In the first phrase of any actual information about the country, he says he intends to balance the budget, and everyone stands up and cheers. His next phrase is that he's going to do it without raising taxes, and only one side stands up and cheers.

My point, though, is from a standpoint of resting on laurels. We're not yet at a point when we can celebrate. The only time that's going to happen is when the national debt is at $0.00, and that isn't going to happen any time soon. I know you like to gloat, but this isn't the time to do it. We still have a fiscal issue to solve. We're not out of the hole yet, not even the hole by year.

As for your gripe about female companionship, I'd like to know what that has to do with anything?
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To answer you second question first, I think conservatism attracts negative people, as there are very very few happy conservatives ala Reagan anymore. Find something to make you happy and you might post less of a glass half empty view on all issues...

For your first question, look naysaying has been around for milleniums. You have to start somewhere. Several years ago the deficit was at 1.2T I believe. Now its projected to go under half that next year, somewhere in the mid 500B's. Am I happy with the 500B? No. Am I happy it got cut in half? YES! Furthermore, its been cut in half without killing growth like what's happened in the UK. That's a key accomplishment. Also, we haven't touched entitlement or the gimmicks in the tax code yet.

See, if you look at everything with the prediction that "we're doomed" a person will slide towards unrealistic or unworkable solutions, because what's the point of doing anything else if the end result is doom? A more positive outlook leads to better ideas. Say the deficit gets to 500Bn at the end of the year. With some painless changes to both the tax code and entitlements (oil/AG tax breaks, carried interest, tort reform, bargaining for prescription drugs) before even getting to means testing or raising retirement ages, the govt can cut 1/3rd off that deficit. A decrease in war spending (recall we're still shelling out 120Bn a year for operations even with the sequester cuts) means that deficit is now cut in half. At 250B a year I'd let economic growth take care of the rest.

Reducing the deficit without squashing growth is a high wire act of epic proportions but thus far has been accomplished.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

Rover said:
To answer you second question first, I think conservatism attracts negative people, as there are very very few happy conservatives ala Reagan anymore. Find something to make you happy and you might post less of a glass half empty view on all issues...

For your first question, look naysaying has been around for milleniums. You have to start somewhere. Several years ago the deficit was at 1.2T I believe. Now its projected to go under half that next year, somewhere in the mid 500B's. Am I happy with the 500B? No. Am I happy it got cut in half? YES! Furthermore, its been cut in half without killing growth like what's happened in the UK. That's a key accomplishment. Also, we haven't touched entitlement or the gimmicks in the tax code yet.

See, if you look at everything with the prediction that "we're doomed" a person will slide towards unrealistic or unworkable solutions, because what's the point of doing anything else if the end result is doom? A more positive outlook leads to better ideas. Say the deficit gets to 500Bn at the end of the year. With some painless changes to both the tax code and entitlements (oil/AG tax breaks, carried interest, tort reform, bargaining for prescription drugs) before even getting to means testing or raising retirement ages, the govt can cut 1/3rd off that deficit. A decrease in war spending (recall we're still shelling out 120Bn a year for operations even with the sequester cuts) means that deficit is now cut in half. At 250B a year I'd let economic growth take care of the rest.

Reducing the deficit without squashing growth is a high wire act of epic proportions but thus far has been accomplished.
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You could also dump DHS; that has been the biggest mistake in the history of this country. Maybe also the EPA. Maybe also look at some of the entitlement abuses, such as disability/workers comp, being able to claim unemployment insurance for more than a month, and so on. Yes, I understand that there is a percentage of people that truly need this sort of thing, but you should see some of the people I know that just downright abuse handicapped privileges and other said income for things they never would have been able to claim 15-20 years ago. You could also cut some inefficiencies with the PPACA as well, since that also attributes to the slowing of economic growth. The site that I cited (I think it was here; might have been the other thread) shows the 2014 deficit to be projected at 700B, but I'm not going to argue semantics with you. I don't know if 250B can be helped with economic growth without dependence upon what is cut. The biggest thing of all is that the government must foster an environment where people can prosper, but it is also people's responsibility to prosper. As the late President Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

As for your first comment, the left has some of the grumpiest people I have ever met, especially when you disagree with them. They immediately go on a re-education tirade or try to spin everything so that only they are relevant. Righties and L'ans are quite happy, until we have to deal with the muppets to the fascist left.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

FreshFish said:
If this thesis is true, wouldn't that make you one of the most conservative people on the board?
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I dont know that conservatives are just plain negative as a rule. I will say that that the conservatives I've been close to in my life, have largely been complainers. They've complained about schools, they've complained about govt, they've complained about 'those' people. Its now to the point that a pet peeve of mine is people who complain all the time. The goal of discourse should be problem solving...not just complaining and being too lazy to continue any further.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

5mn_Major said:
I dont know that conservatives are just plain negative as a rule. I will say that that the conservatives I've been close to in my life, have largely been complainers. They've complained about schools, they've complained about govt, they've complained about 'those' people. Its now to the point that a pet peeve of mine is people who complain all the time. The goal of discourse should be problem solving...not just complaining and being too lazy to continue any further.
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My experience has been more that the conservatives I know are frightened and concerned. Guidelines that have helped people to live satisfying and productive lives are now mocked and ridiculed: who deliberately sets aside immediate gratification these days in exchange for the prospect of something better in the future?
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

5mn_Major said:
I dont know that conservatives are just plain negative as a rule. I will say that that the conservatives I've been close to in my life, have largely been complainers. They've complained about schools, they've complained about govt, they've complained about 'those' people. Its now to the point that a pet peeve of mine is people who complain all the time. The goal of discourse should be problem solving...not just complaining and being too lazy to continue any further.
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I've found that both sides have the grumps. Let's consider leftists such as the environmental lobby, PETA, or some of the civil rights lobbyists. Heck, let's just look at a certain couple of left-wing users on here that constantly brat about 'those' people. I find that the biggest reason for perpetual complaining is either the lack of a goal, the existence of an unrealistic goal, or the lack of a way to effectively execute their goal.

There is a reason that I will occasionally peer into what an ignored user is posting. Within all of the drivel they post, sometimes they come up with something halfway decent where an actual discussion may be had. Once they go back to the aforementioned complaints, cul.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

FreshFish said:
My experience has been more that the conservatives I know are frightened and concerned. Guidelines that have helped people to live satisfying and productive lives are now mocked and ridiculed: who deliberately sets aside immediate gratification these days in exchange for the prospect of something better in the future?
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I do.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

FlagDUDE08 said:
I've found that both sides have the grumps. Let's consider leftists such as the environmental lobby, PETA, or some of the civil rights lobbyists. Heck, let's just look at a certain couple of left-wing users on here that constantly brat about 'those' people. I find that the biggest reason for perpetual complaining is either the lack of a goal, the existence of an unrealistic goal, or the lack of a way to effectively execute their goal.

There is a reason that I will occasionally peer into what an ignored user is posting. Within all of the drivel they post, sometimes they come up with something halfway decent where an actual discussion may be had. Once they go back to the aforementioned complaints, cul.
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I guess its all about perspective. Although there are some who use questionable means on any issue, I don't see folks hoping to protect our lakes, forests and wildlife as 'negative'.

FreshFish said:
My experience has been more that the conservatives I know are frightened and concerned. Guidelines that have helped people to live satisfying and productive lives are now mocked and ridiculed: who deliberately sets aside immediate gratification these days in exchange for the prospect of something better in the future?
Click to expand...

I don't know that nonconservatives always see conservatives in that light. Although folks don't really like to talk about it...media outlets like Fox do influence how conservatives are viewed. The outlet is pretty much criticisms, negativity, few positives and not one solution. I'd really like to see the conservative movement put forward a positive vision of what the world could be, until it can do that votes will be a challenge.
 
5mn_Major said:
I dont know that conservatives are just plain negative as a rule. I will say that that the conservatives I've been close to in my life, have largely been complainers. They've complained about schools, they've complained about govt, they've complained about 'those' people. Its now to the point that a pet peeve of mine is people who complain all the time. The goal of discourse should be problem solving...not just complaining and being too lazy to continue any further.
Click to expand...

You've just summed up conservatism in a nutshell. Conservatives nowadays (can't speak to their ancestors from the 70's and 80's) tend to be people frustrated with their own lives, so they want to take it out on people that they blame for their problems. The scapegoats might change, but the song is the same (47%'ers/immigrants/gays/etc). Most are followers of the Glenn Beck "the apocalypse is around the corner" crowd, not realizing that Beck himself is laughing all the way to the bank. Its very amusing that McCain called out Rand Paul's "black helicopter" hysteria. Sadly for Old Man McCain, that's where his ideology is right now.

Regarding the GM-China article, typical whiny nonsense out of FishBreath. Why wouldn't GM export cars from China to surrounding countries, like Russia for example? That's kinda the point, which is to locate production in the place where people are buying the cars. As China and Russia share a border, its perhaps easier to get the end product there. Furthermore, the agenda of the author is revealed when he says "GM has shed 76,000 jobs since 2005". Gee whiz, what happened after 2005 that most likely accounted for significant job losses? Funny how that part went unmentioned.

Bottom line is this. We had an election. Bailing out the auto industry was an issue. In those states where it was an issue (MI, OH, PA), Mitt Romney got his @_ss handed to him. Really, what more is there to say? The bailout paid off in spades.
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

5mn_Major said:
I guess its all about perspective. Although there are some who use questionable means on any issue, I don't see folks hoping to protect our lakes, forests and wildlife as 'negative'.



I don't know that nonconservatives always see conservatives in that light. Although folks don't really like to talk about it...media outlets like Fox do influence how conservatives are viewed. The outlet is pretty much criticisms, negativity, few positives and not one solution. I'd really like to see the conservative movement put forward a positive vision of what the world could be, until it can do that votes will be a challenge.
Click to expand...

Turn time back to 2002-2008, and you could say the same thing about the people on CNN, MSNBC, and the other left-leaning news outlets. I'm not going to start spouting that one side is all peaches and cream; heck, a right-wing guy I used to play trivia with is one of the grumpiest people I have met when it comes to political topics. I'm not going to argue semantics of topics with you, because I think we're both in agreement as to where we stand. With the environmental lobby, you could keep throwing them a bone, but it still wouldn't be enough. They got their clean air act, it's not good enough. They want mandated E15, sooner or later that's not going to be good enough. It's like the "homeless" guy on the corner that has figured out that continuously asking for change can be a profitable venture. You just get the feeling that they won't stop until the country has completely failed due to a lack of energy. It makes me wonder if they've even thought about what their late-game strategy is going to be once the country has fallen.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Turn time back to 2002-2008, and you could say the same thing about the people on CNN, MSNBC, and the other left-leaning news outlets....You just get the feeling that they won't stop until the country has completely failed due to a lack of energy. It makes me wonder if they've even thought about what their late-game strategy is going to be once the country has fallen.
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Flaggy I always admire your ability to hit your right wing talking points right out of the knuckledragger playbook! A few points:

1) CNN is useless. Nobody watches them anymore, including liberals. This isn't because of political bias but because their reporting is atrocious. I laugh my head off whenever some righty tries to bring up CNN as a talking point. Nobody cares.

2) You did however hit the apocalypse is around the corner schtick though, so nice recovery. ;)

3) You did miss out on the martyr complex, another musthave to be a true conservative. Fortunately Fishy picked you up with his "we're worried about being the only people caring about the long term over the short term" or some nonsense along those lines. Funny how the only people trying to live the right way and not mooch off the system always tend to be conservatives? Kinda makes you wonder about all those people in red states such as KY, WV, AL, and MS collecting welfare though...
 
Re: Strands in the Tapestry: the Business, Economics, and Tax Policy Thread

Here's a great opportunity for people to be heard regarding tax reform.

Dave Camp (R - House Ways and Means Committee Chair) and Max Baucus (D - Senate Finance Committee Chair) are working together to try to simplify the tax code. they are soliciting public input here:

https://taxreform.gov/

If you want to post useful thoughtful ideas on a college hockey blog, why not go one step further and suggest them to people who actually have the power to implement them?
 
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