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Starting D1 Hockey Program

Resurrecting this thread since it’s the off-season and that’s when we pretend to have serious discussions about the very unserious ideas of who’s going maybe add a program.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I started keeping a list of programs where we would hear something (a new arena being built by campus, some club coach yapping to a newspaper, etc).

Here’s basically where that list stands:
  • St. Thomas (100% happening but staying on my list until they drop a puck)
  • Illinois (95% likely to actually happen)
  • Navy (70%)
  • Lindenwood (this is where the percentages don’t actually mean anything because I actually don’t think it’ll happen but it’s still possible… 15%?)
  • Penn (7.5% that endowment for their club program… that’s a weird thing for a club program but Ivies are gonna Ivy)
  • The 7 D-II schools are allowed to play D-I (7% for some reason I feel like this could happen, yet there’s never once been some local paper story of one of their ADs suggesting it… but it’s an entire conference that’s already playing varsity hockey so… ?\_(ツ)_/?)
  • Tennessee State (5% until their study comes back, then it’s either 50% or 0%)
  • Simon Fraser (4% their club team has played exhibitions and… hey Canadians! UBC would go here too for the same reasons were they in the NCAA)
  • Oakland (3.5% and dropping since it’s been 3 years since their feasibility study was announced)
  • Schools With Women’s Team Which I Guess Is A Good Indicator Based On LIU and Maybe Lindenwood (Syracuse) (1.5%)
  • Schools With Club Teams Who’ve Made Local News Talking About Maybe Going Varsity With Nothing Else Behind It (Maryville) (1%)
  • Random Schools With Actual Legit Options For Arenas And Nothing Else Driving This Conversation (Iowa, UNLV, Georgia, Liberty, Nebraska, evidently Arizona plays somewhere that can hold 6,000 or so) (idk 1%???)
  • Rhode Island (0.8%… only because of persistent “rumors” some people mention here, but seriously guys has there ever even been a newspaper article about this?)
  • Random Schools Who For Some Reason Have Legit Hired Consultants About An Arena But Otherwise Has Nothing Else (Indiana, High Point University) (0.5%)
  • Schools That Actually Once Kicked The Tires And Said No Or Otherwise Have Had ADs Publicly Say It’s Been Considered (Kennesaw State, Minnesota State-Moorhead, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Minot State, Grand Valley State) (0.1%)
  • Schools Closer To Penn’s Rink Than Penn (Drexel) (0%)
  • Schools That Used To Have Teams That Were Dropped And Probably Only Have Access To Okay Or Lousy Rinks (UIC, Kent State, St Louis, Ohio, Fairfield, Findlay, Villanova technically, Wayne State) (0%)
  • Schools That Random USCHO Posters Have Opined About With No Way To Justify How It Might Actually Happen (Texas, Colorado State, Delaware, Stony Brook, Rutgers, Albany, Marquette, Iowa State) (0%)
  • Do you remember that one guy who once posted here about Louisville and his entire justification on the matter had something to do with intramural hockey? (-10%)
 
Of all the schools listed above, the one that surprises me most about not jumping in is Arizona, if only to keep up with rival Arizona State. The Arizona club program, at least when I was there, had all the trappings of a varsity program, including nice arena, season ticket holders, hefty budget (at least for a club program). Also sorta surprised that UNLV hasn't taken the plunge although maybe the Vegas/Henderson Knights might not be enthralled about the prospect of revenue competition.

Don't know what to think about Illinois anymore. The silence has been deafening.
 
Split-N said:
Of all the schools listed above, the one that surprises me most about not jumping in is Arizona, if only to keep up with rival Arizona State. The Arizona club program, at least when I was there, had all the trappings of a varsity program, including nice arena, season ticket holders, hefty budget (at least for a club program). Also sorta surprised that UNLV hasn't taken the plunge although maybe the Vegas/Henderson Knights might not be enthralled about the prospect of revenue competition.

Don't know what to think about Illinois anymore. The silence has been deafening.
Click to expand...

I keep asking around and they keep saying it's still on course. Take it for what's it's worth.
 
4four4 said:
I keep asking around and they keep saying it's still on course. Take it for what's it's worth.
Click to expand...

I hope that was referring to Illinois? Whoever “they” are can be confident sure, but in like 5-10 years or what?

It’s been killing me waiting. Supposedly they were going to announce the launch last spring. Then they said wait for the dust to settle on COVID. I’d say by this point everyone should have a good idea of how it will impact the financials of the donors, the school, and athletic (football) revenue.

The AD typically does an end of the year review around May / June. If he doesn’t provide solid info on hockey I’m going to…..well….do nothing but continue to wait in frustration.
 
Hockey is an expensive, money losing sport, so any school that wants to start a DI team has to be prepared to spend and lose millions each and every year. In 2019 (the latest year for which EADA numbers are available), the median total expenses for men's hockey was $2.4 million and the average was $2.6 million. When you take out the schools that don't give scholarships those numbers jump by $300 thousand to $2.7 million (median) and $2.9 million. The smallest budget for a school with scholarships was Canisius' $1.25 million, so that is probably the least a school can spend with giving scholarships. As for losing money, of the 26 public schools for which I have their 2020 NCAA financials, 25 had an earned loss (UND was the only school to have an earned profit), with a median and average loss $1.3 million. With UND's $931 thousand profit removed the median and average loss was $1.4 million. So any school interested in adding men's hockey needs to be able to budget for that every year.

Sean
 
The thing with scholarships isn't so much that they are a cost, but a loss of revenue. One could argue they are not even that big of a loss because if the kid wasn't coming on campus to play sports they were likely not coming there anyway. The classes the kids take will be taught regardless, just a few athletes sitting in them for free. Certainly a real cost for meals, books, etc and true loss of revenue if the athlete uses on campus housing that they can't then use to house a typical paying student. But overall the true cost of awarding scholarships is far lower than the amount shown. Tuition is the biggest number that can be taken out of the equation.
 
Here’s the thing with Lindenwood: the only actual “announcement” came from the consulting firm that helped them with their feasibility study.

If it’s official, why has their not been anything from their actual AD? Or has their been and we and Trefzger and Wodon and Schlossman, Milewski, et al somehow all missed it?
 
ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Resurrecting this thread since it’s the off-season and that’s when we pretend to have serious discussions about the very unserious ideas of who’s going maybe add a program.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I started keeping a list of programs where we would hear something (a new arena being built by campus, some club coach yapping to a newspaper, etc).

Here’s basically where that list stands:
  • St. Thomas (100% happening but staying on my list until they drop a puck)
  • Illinois (95% likely to actually happen)
  • Navy (70%)
  • Lindenwood (this is where the percentages don’t actually mean anything because I actually don’t think it’ll happen but it’s still possible… 15%?)
  • Penn (7.5% that endowment for their club program… that’s a weird thing for a club program but Ivies are gonna Ivy)
  • The 7 D-II schools are allowed to play D-I (7% for some reason I feel like this could happen, yet there’s never once been some local paper story of one of their ADs suggesting it… but it’s an entire conference that’s already playing varsity hockey so… ?\_(ツ)_/?)
  • Tennessee State (5% until their study comes back, then it’s either 50% or 0%)
  • Simon Fraser (4% their club team has played exhibitions and… hey Canadians! UBC would go here too for the same reasons were they in the NCAA)
  • Oakland (3.5% and dropping since it’s been 3 years since their feasibility study was announced)
  • Schools With Women’s Team Which I Guess Is A Good Indicator Based On LIU and Maybe Lindenwood (Syracuse) (1.5%)
  • Schools With Club Teams Who’ve Made Local News Talking About Maybe Going Varsity With Nothing Else Behind It (Maryville) (1%)
  • Random Schools With Actual Legit Options For Arenas And Nothing Else Driving This Conversation (Iowa, UNLV, Georgia, Liberty, Nebraska, evidently Arizona plays somewhere that can hold 6,000 or so) (idk 1%???)
  • Rhode Island (0.8%… only because of persistent “rumors” some people mention here, but seriously guys has there ever even been a newspaper article about this?)
  • Random Schools Who For Some Reason Have Legit Hired Consultants About An Arena But Otherwise Has Nothing Else (Indiana, High Point University) (0.5%)
  • Schools That Actually Once Kicked The Tires And Said No Or Otherwise Have Had ADs Publicly Say It’s Been Considered (Kennesaw State, Minnesota State-Moorhead, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Minot State, Grand Valley State) (0.1%)
  • Schools Closer To Penn’s Rink Than Penn (Drexel) (0%)
  • Schools That Used To Have Teams That Were Dropped And Probably Only Have Access To Okay Or Lousy Rinks (UIC, Kent State, St Louis, Ohio, Fairfield, Findlay, Villanova technically, Wayne State) (0%)
  • Schools That Random USCHO Posters Have Opined About With No Way To Justify How It Might Actually Happen (Texas, Colorado State, Delaware, Stony Brook, Rutgers, Albany, Marquette, Iowa State) (0%)
  • Do you remember that one guy who once posted here about Louisville and his entire justification on the matter had something to do with intramural hockey? (-10%)
Click to expand...

This is an awesome list and I’d say pretty darn accurate.

One point of contention: when UIC dropped hockey in the mid-90’s they had one of the nicest on-campus facilities in the nation, and they had a second practice sheet of ice right next door.

Their AD at the time simply decided UIC was going to be a basketball school (the Bulls were in the midst of 6 NBA championships at the time.) To my knowledge since dropping hockey, UIC has made the NCAA basketball tournament once...
 
ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Here’s the thing with Lindenwood: the only actual “announcement” came from the consulting firm that helped them with their feasibility study.

If it’s official, why has their not been anything from their actual AD? Or has their been and we and Trefzger and Wodon and Schlossman, Milewski, et al somehow all missed it?
Click to expand...

Right. Manurespreader says above you're better off relying on Heisenberg's recruit list. But correct me if I'm wrong, but while Heisenberg notes Lindenwood commits on the Front Page, I'm not seeing that Lindenwood is included in the "Listing by Colleges." Is that because they're not a) in a conference yet?; or b) playing D1 for the upcoming season? Or am I reading too much into that? I certainly have no inside intel but if I'm one of those commits, I may be a bit uncomfortable that this is a bait and switch.
 
FLHockeyMom said:
Right. Manurespreader says above you're better off relying on Heisenberg's recruit list. But correct me if I'm wrong, but while Heisenberg notes Lindenwood commits on the Front Page, I'm not seeing that Lindenwood is included in the "Listing by Colleges." Is that because they're not a) in a conference yet?; or b) playing D1 for the upcoming season? Or am I reading too much into that? I certainly have no inside intel but if I'm one of those commits, I may be a bit uncomfortable that this is a bait and switch.
Click to expand...

Nah, most those kids are likely just keeping their mouths closed and fingers crossed. 14 pts in 34 NAHL games? As far as NCAA D1 hockey is concerned for someone with those numbers, it’s Lindenwood in a couple years or nothing...
 
altazo said:
This is an awesome list and I’d say pretty darn accurate.

One point of contention: when UIC dropped hockey in the mid-90’s they had one of the nicest on-campus facilities in the nation, and they had a second practice sheet of ice right next door.

Their AD at the time simply decided UIC was going to be a basketball school (the Bulls were in the midst of 6 NBA championships at the time.) To my knowledge since dropping hockey, UIC has made the NCAA basketball tournament once...
Click to expand...

Might have been overall a nice facility, but an equipment manager told me the ice was absolutely brutal.
 
pdt1081 said:
Might have been overall a nice facility, but an equipment manager told me the ice was absolutely brutal.
Click to expand...

Could be, the facility was also used for basketball.

I occasionally had games as a kid in the ‘80s on their practice sheet.
 
Capacity wise, UIC’s rink seems fantastic, and it’s newer than a lot of arenas around the country.

But I’d heard people on here mention the bad ice equipment before. Plus: I’m not sure what to make of the location. From what little I can see, they had pretty awful attendance, so despite maybe being easy to get to by the L, people didn’t want to go to that part of town 30 years ago.

Maybe in the 2020s you could have a different story (especially with the resurgence of the Blackhawks making hockey more of a thing in Chicago these days), but still…
 
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