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St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

"I was contacted by another program, and offered a head coaching job for significantly more money in my wife's hometown. I hate to leave Canton and SLU, but this is a good fit for my family and a significant opportunity for my career, and in the end I felt I couldn't turn it down. I know I've put Mike Hurlbut, Bob Durocher, my players, and our incoming recruits in a very difficult situation. I'm sorry to put my SLU family through this, but St. Lawrence hockey is in very capable hands and I know the program will continue to build on our recent success and ultimately go on to be even more successful in my absence."

I just made that up. Not that difficult, really. Here are my thoughts for Greg:

You were offered a good job at a major public university, in a location that makes sense for you and your family, and they threw a really big pile of money at you. You took it. That's not the worst thing anyone has ever done, and it's probably what just about all of us would have done in your place. So say it. Don't tell us, "It's not a money grab . . . there's a lot you don't know." Come on, really.

There are a lot of people at SLU and across the country who have worked very hard to support you and help you get to the point where UMASS came after you waving its checkbook. You screwed them. Again, it may have been the right thing to do for your family, which should be your first priority, but you screwed them. Own up to it. Sometimes we feel the need to do things that end up having sh***y consequences for others. Do you care about what you left in your wake? Then say so.

It's great that you're talking about all the reasons you're excited to be at UMASS. It's what's expected of you, and I'm sure it's all true. But did you REALLY need to put that in terms of what St. Lawrence didn't have to offer you? Limited resources, seriously? To everyone associated with Saints hockey, that sure sounds like an indictment of the program and a suggestion that others may not want to go there if they can go to a bigger program. When you were the coach, you talked a lot about all the great things SLU's small size and family atmosphere had to offer. In fact, I heard you say it just a couple of weeks ago. You should be proud of the fact that you attended, played for, and coached at St. Lawrence University (and I'm sure you are). You represented all of us very well. Do you want to challenge SLU to step up its support of the program? Say it to Bob Durocher, not that national press. Leaving was all the public statement you needed to make about SLU.

In the end, I'm excited for the future. Every national champion, and every ECAC champion, in the history of NCAA hockey has won without Greg Carvel as the head coach. We will do it, too. I hope the move to Amherst works out well for the Carvels. We've got a lot of talented players, we've got talented coaches and staff, and we will be just fine.

I, as already done on the FB and maybe here as well, wish Greg and his family the best. However, his recent comments about SLU's limited resources - again, in his words - were a direct slap in the face to EVERYBODY who joined/donated in/to the Saints Hockey Society, and an equal-slap to all SLU fans, the SLU community, and to SLU Hockey in general. I guess the sacrifices that many of us made to donate didn't generate enough resources. Greg may be getting a much bigger paycheck soon, but he needs to take many courses on how to better deal with and treat people. UMASS can have him.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

"I was contacted by another program, and offered a head coaching job for significantly more money in my wife's hometown. I hate to leave Canton and SLU, but this is a good fit for my family and a significant opportunity for my career, and in the end I felt I couldn't turn it down. I know I've put Mike Hurlbut, Bob Durocher, my players, and our incoming recruits in a very difficult situation. I'm sorry to put my SLU family through this, but St. Lawrence hockey is in very capable hands and I know the program will continue to build on our recent success and ultimately go on to be even more successful in my absence."

I just made that up. Not that difficult, really. Here are my thoughts for Greg:

You were offered a good job at a major public university, in a location that makes sense for you and your family, and they threw a really big pile of money at you. You took it. That's not the worst thing anyone has ever done, and it's probably what just about all of us would have done in your place. So say it. Don't tell us, "It's not a money grab . . . there's a lot you don't know." Come on, really.

There are a lot of people at SLU and across the country who have worked very hard to support you and help you get to the point where UMASS came after you waving its checkbook. You screwed them. Again, it may have been the right thing to do for your family, which should be your first priority, but you screwed them. Own up to it. Sometimes we feel the need to do things that end up having sh***y consequences for others. Do you care about what you left in your wake? Then say so.
.

Tim......love the quote. You have a second career ahead of you as a PR Agent.

The other thing I'd like someone to explain is what the hell is a "CONTRACT" these days????? Maybe we are in a better position financially now that he broke it, as one would assume UMass and or Greg had to "buy out" and pay a "penalty" or something to get out of that contract??? Anyone have a clue how you get out of a 5 year deal and what the repercussions are/were????

Also......others have asked why the emotions have run so high on this.....using those same terms its the "social contract" he broke with those who supported him so fiercely that bothers us the most. SLU gave him a spot to land when he didn't have a job.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Tim......love the quote. You have a second career ahead of you as a PR Agent.

The other thing I'd like someone to explain is what the hell is a "CONTRACT" these days????? Maybe we are in a better position financially now that he broke it, as one would assume UMass and or Greg had to "buy out" and pay a "penalty" or something to get out of that contract??? Anyone have a clue how you get out of a 5 year deal and what the repercussions are/were????

Also......others have asked why the emotions have run so high on this.....using those same terms its the "social contract" he broke with those who supported him so fiercely that bothers us the most. SLU gave him a spot to land when he didn't have a job.

Commitments don't mean a thing anymore either. It's now recruit up until the player signs the Letter of Intent. The <strike>agents</strike> family advisors are now in charge.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Commitments don't mean a thing anymore either. It's now recruit up until the player signs the Letter of Intent. The <strike>agents</strike> family advisors are now in charge.

I think he was referring to the fact that Carvel had just recently (back in December I believe) signed a new 5 year contract extension with St. Lawrence University. Now this? I too want to know more about that contract and how that all works/worked? :(
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

I am really surprised that no one seemed to have noticed a comment Carvel made on the Facebook page yesterday and then he deleted just shortly after. He responded to another young man's comment about the tournament in Belfast next year and the guy he was responding to was misinformed. He responded to his comment with "No. You're absolutely wrong. Once again!". I think he probably thought twice about how that may be viewed coming from a Division 1 hockey coach on social media and so he deleted it because I went to show someone later and it was gone.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

This is exactly the reason that NCAA transfer rules are for @#%$. Coaches can do any @#$ $%#@ thing they please without regard to contracts, players, administration etc. I don't really care if they want to move on to a new opportunity i get that, but the rules need to be equivalent for the players. NCAA is %$#%@# up
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

The Jonathan Quick 44-save robbery?

I don't know what you're talking about Muskie but I have some faint memory of trying to take out an overly happy and overly large Minuteman by the knees in the concourse of some arena in Western NY.

As far as the "greater resources" of UM-Amherst, that all depends if they want to commit those resources. They haven't done a **** thing in college hockey, even when they happened to fall into the best goaltender not only in college hockey, but probably on the planet for at least a short period. They are all about bouncy ball.

I'm not sure if Carvel's comments are so much an indictment of the SLU fan base but I've got to wonder if the "limited resources" he might be referring to might be the commitment of administration to the hockey programs. Your neighbors to the east have a president and board of trustees that are committed to the D1 and D3 athletic programs. Although it hasn't quite shown in the men's hockey team yet, there is definitely support at the highest levels for academics. They hired a coach who was among the bright stars in Casey Jones (although some of us aren't really satisfied with him), they're committed to putting big money into Cheel, and the results are evident in the women's program as well as several of our D3 programs that have had their most successful seasons ever. Tony Collins and his wife are seen regularly at men's and women's D1 and D3 sporting events. Maybe it's administration support that Carvel is talking about because we all know the fan base is there.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Stop focusing on what Carvel did or didn’t do. He’s gone and he ain’t looking back. Old news. Take the fact that he got swept away with a big check and learn from it. Focus on the real problem, which is exactly what our neighbor from the east says. NO REAL SUPPORT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION. They need to commit to making SLU hockey a Division 1 program. The money and the time and the commitment needs to come first from the school, the president and the board of trustees, then the fans and alumnae; not the other way around. The team got to the ECAC semis in the last two years so it is clear the talent is there. Now the Administration needs to get on board. They can prove their commitment to the hockey program now by being willing to spend the funds necessary to hire a competitive Division 1 level coach who will take this team all the way. We need someone with the passion and experience to perform our coach search. Then, the school needs to invest its resources to get the program on par with comparable D-1 schools to help with recruiting and fan interest. How is SLU going to compete with the new facilities of Penn State, Colgate, QU, Clarkson, Notre Dame, Harvard, etc. to attract the best players (or coach, for that matter)?

Time for SLU to jump up and stop the negative advertising of “smaller resources” in its tracks.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Stop focusing on what Carvel did or didn’t do. He’s gone and he ain’t looking back. Old news. Take the fact that he got swept away with a big check and learn from it. Focus on the real problem, which is exactly what our neighbor from the east says. NO REAL SUPPORT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION. They need to commit to making SLU hockey a Division 1 program. The money and the time and the commitment needs to come first from the school, the president and the board of trustees, then the fans and alumnae; not the other way around. The team got to the ECAC semis in the last two years so it is clear the talent is there. Now the Administration needs to get on board. They can prove their commitment to the hockey program now by being willing to spend the funds necessary to hire a competitive Division 1 level coach who will take this team all the way. We need someone with the passion and experience to perform our coach search. Then, the school needs to invest its resources to get the program on par with comparable D-1 schools to help with recruiting and fan interest. How is SLU going to compete with the new facilities of Penn State, Colgate, QU, Clarkson, Notre Dame, Harvard, etc. to attract the best players (or coach, for that matter)?

Time for SLU to jump up and stop the negative advertising of “smaller resources” in its tracks.

+1 Well said.
 
They can prove their commitment to the hockey program now by being willing to spend the funds necessary to hire a competitive Division 1 level coach who will take this team all the way.

I'm pretty sure SLU has had a competitive Division 1 level coach for about 35 consecutive seasons.
 
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Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

I'm pretty sure SLU has had a competitive Division 1 level coach for about 35 consecutive seasons.



Truth be told we aint going to be competitive w/ the likes of the Ivies, PSU, ASU etc. We don't have the endowment. Yet we have some enormously talented and perhaps overlooked players who bought into a system with talented coaches such as Marsh, Menard and Carvel. Our 32 athletic offerings have been guided of late by two of the best A.D. s in the field. Our overall athletic performance is near the top (Learfield Cup) and our athletic facilities have been rated highly - even including D1 schools. It will always be a struggle for small schools (Union, CC etc) to reach the top of their respective leagues let alone make it to the Frozen Four. Both Presidents Sullivan (3 sport ODK athlete) and Fox have been enormously supportive and have had an open door policy w/ Margie and Bob. I would encourage others, as I have, to remember SLU in their annual giving and further down the road, in their wills.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

I think he was referring to the fact that Carvel had just recently (back in December I believe) signed a new 5 year contract extension with St. Lawrence University. Now this? I too want to know more about that contract and how that all works/worked? :(

Not looking to stir up a hornet's nest here --- as I've already got some on the FB Page questioning my actions I noted there. But, is it possible that somebody like/perhaps UMASS Amherst (if, indeed, there's no tampering rules re coaches) reached out to him in December or before, Greg pulled the "power-play" back then, and SLU responded with a new contract in December? We will never know, but it makes me wonder.

To the players and incoming recruits, I suggest that you will be better off once a new coach and staff are in place. I just wish the existing players didn't have to hear about this whole thing before Greg could meet with you. Not only is/was that an embarrassment - at least to me as a fan - it is/was just plain wrong (thanks to Social Media and whoever the idiot(s) was/(were) who leaked the news).
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

Not looking to stir up a hornet's nest here --- as I've already got some on the FB Page questioning my actions I noted there. But, is it possible that somebody like/perhaps UMASS Amherst (if, indeed, there's no tampering rules re coaches) reached out to him in December or before, Greg pulled the "power-play" back then, and SLU responded with a new contract in December? We will never know, but it makes me wonder.

To the players and incoming recruits, I suggest that you will be better off once a new coach and staff are in place. I just wish the existing players didn't have to hear about this whole thing before Greg could meet with you. Not only is/was that an embarrassment - at least to me as a fan - it is/was just plain wrong (thanks to Social Media and whoever the idiot(s) was/(were) who leaked the news).

Idiots? Thats journalists jobs...
 
Idiots? Thats journalists jobs...

Somebody in the UMass Athletic Department, or somebody with knowledge of the situation, let BucciCool know of it. He was first to mention on Twitter, I believe. That's more what muskie is getting at.

From there, sure, reporters gotta report.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

I'm pretty sure SLU has had a competitive Division 1 level coach for about 35 consecutive seasons.
Apologies if this is a reply that went somewhere else (I sent it blurry eyed late last night). As A Union grad and fan I've been where you are and once felt your pain when Nate Leaman left for PC after 2010-2011. However, I've learned since then that the most important element of any head coach's tenure isn't how long he stayed but what he left the next coach who succeeds him. Carvel in my opinion did a great job succeeding Joe Marsh - a living legend - who ran a clean and very successful program for twenty five years. Carvel never missed a beat and he moved the program forward. Your next coach will be given the opportunity to do the same and considering SLU's rich hockey history I have faith in your AD and President to hire the right person who will also move your program forward. Our president and AD did that for us when they hired Rick Bennett in April 2011 and three years later we watched confetti fall from the rafters on all of them in Philadelphia. As hard as it is to imagine that moment you have to remember what Tug McGraw once said ... "you gotta believe!". Keep the faith - Go SLU (except when you play U)!
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

He who does the recruiting is the most important person. Bring in a bad class or two can ruin a program despite how good the head coach is.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

To make the situation even worst I have heard that we are losing at least three recruited players!
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

To make the situation even worst I have heard that we are losing at least three recruited players!

That would be surprising and unfortunate. Were these recruits slated for next season or a few season's out? It appears most or all of the recruits coming for next season have signed their National Letter of Intent, which binds them to SLU for next season.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University Skating Saints - 2015-2016

That would be surprising and unfortunate. Were these recruits slated for next season or a few season's out? It appears most or all of the recruits coming for next season have signed their National Letter of Intent, which binds them to SLU for next season.

Chris Heisenberg's list only shows 2 signings for NLI unless that list in not fully up to date yet. It's really not surprising when there is a coaching change for recruits to de-commit. It happens everywhere in the NCAA.
 
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