St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

[TimU]

Can you explain this from your perspective Tim? I really don't understand what you're trying to say (not hard for an old guy like me )

Well, if you want it boiled down to its essence, just refer to Kepler's last post. I see Q and UVM doing very similar things. UVM's move to HE coincided with the hiring of Dan Fogel as president, from LSU. There was a very concerted effort to use athletic success as a way to gain attention and in the long run generate revenue. Lots of money went to athletic programs, and there seems to be a clear willingness to pursue athletes that couldn't get past the admissions office at a selective school that wants the "student athlete." Expensive facilities, big recruiting budgets, TV contracts and advertising, etc., all focused on athletic success . . . not at any cost, but in ways that most ECAC schools aren't comfortable with.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

there seems to be a clear willingness to pursue athletes that couldn't get past the admissions office at a selective school that wants the "student athlete."

While I have no proof to back this up I have been told that there are no games played with admissions when it comes to athletics. We've been near the top in the ECAC adademic rankings for the last few seasons, and I believe we've had a 100% graduation rate in hockey as well. Lahey is definitely an academics-first type of president that fully supports the athletic department. In fact, he's said on more than one occasion that he uses our athletics success to entice big-money donors for the school.

Expensive facilities, big recruiting budgets, TV contracts and advertising, etc., all focused on athletic success . . . not at any cost, but in ways that most ECAC schools aren't comfortable with.

Ok, we have the facilities, but they were somewhat required to get into the ECAC*. I know they have spent a lot on advertising. I honestly don't know what the recruiting budget might be and we haven't had any TV contracts that I'm aware of. There were a couple of seasons where they bought airtime to televise a few games, but I'd consider that advertising.

* If I'm not mistaken, the ECAC required a minimum 3000-seat arena, while HE I believe wants 4000 or 5000. If QU's aspirations were to ultimately end up in HE, why did they only build a 3400-seat rink without any easy means for expansion?

Enough of the thread derailment. I appreciate the civil response Tim. Guys like you, Mike, Brian, and few others whose names I can't remember (the crew from that fateful day at the Hoot Owl) are stand-up guys and I really appreciate your opinions even if I don't always agree with them.

Here's to hoping that Friday's game is a classic, hard fought hockey game.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

That's really all that need be said about YouSnooze. It's published to gin up discussion; it's just an irritainment tar-baby. The only way to win is not to play.

SLU is the most improved team, from the beginning of the season to now, in the conference. That includes Dartmouth who is terrifying right now. The whole rest of the conference is praying those two teams meet in the semi to give somebody else a shot at getting to the final.

Not sure what alternate universe we are in at the moment with people arguing that Q-suc is a middle of the pack academic institution in the ECAC. It may be the next BC that 30 years ago was basically Chestnut Hill Community College that wasn't even worthy of a safety school application fee. The entire academic environment sticks out like a sore thumb. The ECAC has, since 1984, been schools focused on solid liberal arts institutions and above average engineering schools. Q-suc may have great nursing, and OT and PT and PA programs but that doesn't make it a crossover for most ECAC schools. For applicants to the other 11 ECAC schools I'd wager that Q-suc is not even remotely on their radar. US News has zero credibility on this issue and you can't compare apples to oranges let alone apples to sponge bob.

The real issue for me, aside from coach touchole, is that Q-suc does represent a real threat to the league. Not because they are in first place, but because if the Ivies did vote to break off from the ECAC the way they and the current ECAC teams did in 1984, it would be for the same reason which is league members with obviously different mentalities about sports. The ECAC and Hockey East schools divorced because some wanted to build new arenas (BU, BC, UNH, Lowell, Merrimack, U-Mass, and big upgrades at Maine. I don't pay attention to newbies like UND and U-Conn) area all new since HEA, and emphasize the athletics as big time, money making, athlete factories with lax admissions by comparison, and others wanted to maintain the academic integrity of their admissions with the athletic programs and are either Ivies, small Ivies (Colgate) or D3 schools with D3 mentalities that happen to have big and long hockey traditions. It would be a disaster for other ECAC schools to face a breakup with the Ivy league and it's members like Q-suc that could make that happen because they simply don't fit in and represent the same mentality that the league already broke away from. That's the real issue. Should that ever happen, all the non-Ivy institutions are in NY and I think that would likely turn into teams either dropping D-1 Hockey or putting together an all-NYS league with teams like Niagara, RIT, Canisius, Army, and whoever else. Caddyshack was a comedy, but this is a real live case of the newest member of the club not fitting in and not following traditions. Q-suc is like a wave pool in the middle of Augusta National.

Maybe if they had a different coach and a different philosphy it would be alright. But they don't.

As for Dartmouth...they have a five man unit as good as anyone elses. They are fast, strong and generate a lot of shots. I don't think Dartmouth has the overall team speed or depth that SLU or a few other teams have but with those five on the ice they can give anyone a heart attack. However, I am scared playing anyone in our league. There are zero easy points.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

While I have no proof to back this up I have been told that there are no games played with admissions when it comes to athletics. We've been near the top in the ECAC adademic rankings for the last few seasons, and I believe we've had a 100% graduation rate in hockey as well. Lahey is definitely an academics-first type of president that fully supports the athletic department. In fact, he's said on more than one occasion that he uses our athletics success to entice big-money donors for the school.

This simply is not accurate. There are several guys at Q over the last 5 years that I know were admitted because of hockey and had academic issues that would have prevented them from getting into other schools. There are others that one can assume may not have been qualified such as Quinneville (sp?), but I don't know. You guys have to remember that Q has had several siblings from Saint players such as Coughlin and Clarke. But again, this has less to do with academics than it has to do with philosophy about sports. Q is a world apart from the Ivies and D3 mentality of the other member institutions. When Yale wins the NCAA championship as one of the most elite academic institutions in the world playing in the beautiful whale that hasn't changed a ton in 30 years, or Union does it with 2000 students and no scholarships, and a rink that put next to North Dakota would be like Patriot Place to Mud Dog stadium in the Waterboy. If Q had won in 2013 (and I just threw up in my mouth thinking about that), it would have been bought and paid for the same way it has been at BC or other recent winners.

 

[MSchvatz44]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

This simply is not accurate. There are several guys at Q over the last 5 years that I know were admitted because of hockey and had academic issues that would have prevented them from getting into other schools. There are others that one can assume may not have been qualified such as Quinneville (sp?), but I don't know. You guys have to remember that Q has had several siblings from Saint players such as Coughlin and Clarke. But again, this has less to do with academics than it has to do with philosophy about sports. Q is a world apart from the Ivies and D3 mentality of the other member institutions. When Yale wins the NCAA championship as one of the most elite academic institutions in the world playing in the beautiful whale that hasn't changed a ton in 30 years, or Union does it with 2000 students and no scholarships, and a rink that put next to North Dakota would be like Patriot Place to Mud Dog stadium in the Waterboy. If Q had won in 2013 (and I just threw up in my mouth thinking about that), it would have been bought and paid for the same way it has been at BC or other recent winners.

Over the last three years, Quinnipiac has consistently ranked among placing the most players on the ECAC All-Academic team - each time placing more than St. Lawrence. Proof:

2012: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2011-12/News/20122606_M_All-Academic_Team

2013: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2013-14/News/20130307_M_All-Academic_Team

2014: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2014-15/News/20141507_M_All-Academic_Team

So what exactly was "simply not accurate" about Mark's post? And please don't provide your normal bravado about how you know FOR A FACT that everything at Quinnipiac is terrible. You do not know the coursework at the school. You do not know the professors. You do not know the specifics about the academics. Sure, the classwork may not be Ivy-level, but there is proof that not only are the players on this team receiving a quality education, they are excelling while doing so.

Also, funny how easy it is for an anonymous internet poster to discredit a national study conducted by a reputable publication in ranking universities. Because you have launched your own national study and have found far more conclusive results stating your school is the best thing ever, right? How convenient. Please stop trying to pass off your bias hearsay and opinions as absolute facts.

For the record, I have absolutely nothing against St. Lawrence. I am sure it is a quality institution that offers a high-quality education thanks to a high-quality community. It is just these absurd rants at a university I care deeply about that tickle me the wrong way.

 

[joecct]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Guys if I had my druthers - if the Ivies left I'd give Q the boot purely for geographic reasons. Then I'd go after RIT and maybe Canisius and Niagara and have an 8 team league located entirely in New York.

28 conference games (4x). That leaves 6 for OOCs.

Finals in Syracuse or Rochester.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Guys if I had my druthers - if the Ivies left I'd give Q the boot purely for geographic reasons. Then I'd go after RIT and maybe Canisius and Niagara and have an 8 team league located entirely in New York.

28 conference games (4x). That leaves 6 for OOCs.

Finals in Syracuse or Rochester.

The only school the ivies would break away from is Q. I'd rather they leave instead of causing the parties to think about another divorce or realignment.

 

[BigAl]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

The only school the ivies would break away from is Q. I'd rather they leave instead of causing the parties to think about another divorce or realignment.

You are now just saying whatever you want and have completely lost any capability of saying something of worth. You have no idea if ND is leaving HE, Q is jumping to HE, and if the Ivies have any interest in leaving the ECAC, just like the rest of us. Dont post your feelings disguised as what the 6 ADs and Presidents of the Ivies think.

 

[Saints#1]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, isn't all this useless drivel just boat loads of fun and joy? ...

Anywho, onto to better things, like our 7 game winning streak and the chances of it continuing through this coming weekend ... I fully expect Friday nights games to be an absolute battle and I am thrilled to be able to make it in person (first time ever at the Q here)! If we make it through the game Friday and the winning streak continues, I will thrilled (obviously), but hopeful that we don't have a let down from that point on. After Friday's game, the remaining teams we play are all teams we beat previously and a loss might be a bit deflating, especially considering it would be the loss that snaps the winning streak. Sometimes a loss, if at the right time, can be a good thing. Of course, going undefeated the rest of the season is also a good thing as well, although unlikely!

Bottom line, keep the pedal to the metal, don't let up, play a full/hard game and everything will be fine. Don't let any slip-ups set the precedent for the remainder of the season. We have a great team this year and I am now looking forward to the finishing stretch of what has turned out to be an unexpectedly pleasant season ... Let's Go Saints!!!

 

[joecct]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

The only school the ivies would break away from is Q. I'd rather they leave instead of causing the parties to think about another divorce or realignment.

6 teams get an AQ. The Ivies would be guaranteed to have at least one team in the tournament every year. That's about the only way the ECAC splits.

And as long as the Burgermeister stays hot, you guys are good to go.

 

[joegrav]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Q-suc is much closer to Northeastern, U-Mass Lowell and Merrimack than it is to Yale, Princeton, SLU or Colgate...

You know, there's a lot going on with your post from your unwarranted high horse, but just one example of something you know jack squat about:

Northeastern's median SAT score (25-75%) for admitted students is 1940-2200 and their acceptance rate is 32% from a gigantic, 25,000+ applicant pool. St. Lawrence's median range is 1710-1920 with a 46% acceptance rate.

What exactly was your point saying quinnipiac is more like Northeastern than SLU? Was that a compliment?

 

[Got 6 Want More]

You are now just saying whatever you want and have completely lost any capability of saying something of worth. You have no idea if ND is leaving HE, Q is jumping to HE, and if the Ivies have any interest in leaving the ECAC, just like the rest of us. Dont post your feelings disguised as what the 6 ADs and Presidents of the Ivies think.

That's where you are wrong because that's exactly what happened when the ECAC split apart and Hockey East was formed and for the same reasons. The ivies and non Ivies didn't want to be a part of schools emphasizing big time athletics and promoting their programs to be in the "pro mold", and the HEA schools wanted to be in the super league with WCHA schools. It's a historical fact. The league was the same core 10 teams except Union in for Army and Q in for Vermont. No one cares that you don't like the facts and feel like your school is getting picked on. Q is not an Ivy and is not a D3 school with a D3 mentality. Everyone else in the league is one of this except Colgate which is an exceptional academic institution and Q which is essentially a new, for profit, institution that with their new rink has made it clear they fit the exact HEA mold all the ECAC schools wanted to get away from!

 

[LTsatch]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

That's where you are wrong because that's exactly what happened when the ECAC split apart and Hockey East was formed and for the same reasons. The ivies and non Ivies didn't want to be a part of schools emphasizing big time athletics and promoting their programs to be in the "pro mold", and the HEA schools wanted to be in the super league with WCHA schools. It's a historical fact. The league was the same core 10 teams except Union in for Army and Q in for Vermont. No one cares that you don't like the facts and feel like your school is getting picked on. Q is not an Ivy and is not a D3 school with a D3 mentality. Everyone else in the league is one of this except Colgate which is an exceptional academic institution and Q which is essentially a new, for profit, institution that with their new rink has made it clear they fit the exact HEA mold all the ECAC schools wanted to get away from!

Q's rink has the exact same capacity as Ingalls. Just because it is newer does not make it Hockey East ready as i think someone already pointed out. The venom you spew about the QU program is becoming comical. QU, Yale and Union have raised the ECAC profile to the highest heights the league has seen in years. Whether or not you can live with that or just wallow in your holier than thou mentality is your choice. The best way to get back at Rand is beating them when it counts.

 

[Muskieman]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, isn't all this useless drivel just boat loads of fun and joy? ...

Reading all of it has been like watching paint dry. By the sounds of it, you'd think the Q and SLU were appearing on Friday's Jeopardy Show instead of playing an important hockey game.

As a reminder, Mark, that infamous meeting in The Hoot that you spoke of took place in March of 2009. And, it was a real idiot (me) that invited you to join us very "welcoming" SLU fans after your 6.5 or so hr. drive. That's still one of my favorite memories over all these years.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Reading all of it has been like watching paint dry. By the sounds of it, you'd think the Q and SLU were appearing on Friday's Jeopardy Show instead of playing an important hockey game.

As a reminder, Mark, that infamous meeting in The Hoot that you spoke of took place in March of 2009. And, it was a real idiot (me) that invited you to join us very "welcoming" SLU fans after your 6.5 or so hr. drive. That's still one of my favorite memories over all these years.

This is what happened to my buddy Paul up there this year! https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1431645586_e6c77c8e32b24f989db57ba2686c1d7c

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

This is what happened to my buddy Paul up there this year! https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd...._=1431645586_e6c77c8e32b24f989db57ba2686c1d7c

Was a fun night.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

You know, there's a lot going on with your post from your unwarranted high horse, but just one example of something you know jack squat about:

Northeastern's median SAT score (25-75%) for admitted students is 1940-2200 and their acceptance rate is 32% from a gigantic, 25,000+ applicant pool. St. Lawrence's median range is 1710-1920 with a 46% acceptance rate.

What exactly was your point saying quinnipiac is more like Northeastern than SLU? Was that a compliment?

So this BC asswipe has this to say about SLU:

you are a god**** moron. nobody knows or cares about St. Lawrence outside the greater ottawa area. enjoy your unwarranted high horse. -joegrav

Wonder why he is an SLU thread since he/she/it is in Boston and no one down there cares about SLU. I love it when the BC muppets start walking upright and like it even more when they contradict themselves so blatantly.

Yeah, so what if Northeastern does have a lot of applicants. So does BU, BC and about every other school in metro Boston. What a shocker, a lot of people want to go to college in Boston. The thing is some people here can figure out from the 30 posts that say the same thing which is that 30 years ago the league basically split by schools that offer scholarships and those that don't or didn't and/or are D3 institutions playing up in hockey. Army was admitted but they are handicapped by where they can recruit and who they can recruit. See the difference? Northeastern and QU are scholarship schools, with D1 sports and who strive to be big time athletics and who can get just about anyone admitted. Hmmm, wonder why schools didn't want to compete in a league that spent more on a scoreboard than their own barns cost to build and who have big budgets and big ambition. The day any other ECAC school would pay to have their games broadcast on NESN is the day hell freezes over. Gradually, all non-ivies have added some for of scholarships except Union which does their own thing, but with the exception of Colgate they are still D3 schools. Try to follow the birdy and realize this is the key difference and why Q doesn't fit. Only 2 ECAC schools have new rinks since the split - Clarkson and Q as opposed to almost every hockey east team (ironically except Northeastern). See the difference?

As far as I am concerned if Hockey East wants them, they can have them. If not, or until then, they are still the last team I'd root for in the league and all of the above is just part of the reason why.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

You are now just saying whatever you want and have completely lost any capability of saying something of worth. You have no idea if ND is leaving HE, Q is jumping to HE, and if the Ivies have any interest in leaving the ECAC, just like the rest of us. Dont post your feelings disguised as what the 6 ADs and Presidents of the Ivies think.

Wrong again, but don't let that stop you. Some is confirmed and some isn't, namely what ND is doing and if HEA would recruit Q-suc. Mike Schafer made his feelings known pretty clearly and, suffice it to say, he is not alone. If you think further confirmation is needed about Ivies opposing scholarships then you are not very tuned in. That aside, its only reason one of many why it would be a blessing if Q jumped.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

You know, there's a lot going on with your post from your unwarranted high horse, but just one example of something you know jack squat about:

Northeastern's median SAT score (25-75%) for admitted students is 1940-2200 and their acceptance rate is 32% from a gigantic, 25,000+ applicant pool. St. Lawrence's median range is 1710-1920 with a 46% acceptance rate.

What exactly was your point saying quinnipiac is more like Northeastern than SLU? Was that a compliment?

And by the way Q-suc has an acceptance rate of 66% out of 17000+ applicants which is more than 4 times the number that apply to SLU. Northeastern has 60,000 applicants. That is the sole reason they are highly selective. You have to whittle 60000 down to a class size of 4000-5000. As that single class of undergrads is more than twice the entire enrollment of most ECAC non-ivies maybe you could assume Q doesn't fit from an enrollment perspective either.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Just an FYI, this recent article by a student reporter at ND re-ignited this speculation. http://ndsmcobserver.com/2015/01/carson-nd-left-outside-hockey-east/