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St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

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Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

What I meant by success is that we've been in the top half of the league since joining and have yet to be a doormat or cellar dwellers.

Everyone has to realize that QU, from the president down, has used athletics (and not just hockey... remember they have a basketball arena at the Bank as well) to promote the university. They're not marketing sports, they're marketing academics. While president Lahey fully supports the athletic department, he is first and foremost about the school as an academic institution.

As for the coach, at this point I don't see him going anywhere unless he wants to. He's done too much with the program and for the school. Then again, with a new boss coming in, anything can happen. My biggest fear is that they try to become a basketball school.

Looks like Friday will be an interesting night in Hamden. Anyone making the trip?

FWIW, in my case, if you look back, I've been consistent in my view of qpac joining the the ECAC -- long before they joined the league and long before they were successful in the league. I don't have anything against the college, it's students or alumni -- And SLU and every other ECAC team has benefited in the PWR over the last few year's from q's national success. I have just always believed that the school was dead wrong for the ECAC, given the ECAC's profile and history.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I have just always believed that the school was dead wrong for the ECAC, given the ECAC's profile and history.
I didn't start following until they were already in the ECAC so I'll defer to those that have been around longer. However, while that argument may have been true in 2006, I don't think it applies today.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

That US and News Rankings are pretty convoluted. Quinnipiac isn't even listed or rated in the "National" Universities category While Princeton (#1) Harvard (#2), Ylae (#3), Dartmouth (#11), Cornell (#15), Brown (#16), RPI (#42) and Clarkson (#121) are all ranked.

Many of the others are ranked in the National Liberal Arts category (which Q Pac is not) with Colgate (#34) Union (41) and SLU (56) the only other schools being ranked. By the by Holy Cross is (#34). Q is only rated in the "Northeast Ratings" which are only Regional.

My argument isn't largely based on academics although one could make the case Q is the easiest to enter of any school in the conference....it is based on the "mission" or "intent" of the University with it's athletic programs. They spend and market Q Hockey as if they were a minor league franchise. They are the only team in the ECAC that "markets" their hockey program to that degree. Their athletic budget to promote their hockey and basketball programs is in my opinion more what makes them an awkward fit. The emphasis on athletics, the marketing and spending large amounts of dollars on promoting it and recruiting are what makes me feel they do not fit. They are a Hockey East mentality is every regard and probably (whether these rumors are true or not) will eventually wind up there.

No matter where each school is placed in those categories, each is given a ranking score from 1-100. Here is the ECAC list updated with correction on Union.

Princeton 100
Harvard 99
Yale 98
Dartmouth 90
Cornell 85
Brown 84
Colgate 83
Union 73
Quinnipiac 72
St Lawrence 65
RPI 62
Clarkson 41


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/st-lawrence-university-2829/rankings

Also as mentioned by Mark earlier, the AD is a BC guy and is now on the way out. Not sure who the next one is.
 
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Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, the score speaks for itself. Really, really wish we could have given Kyle the shutout, but that was a great shot by the Union player.

I was a little disappointed with how chippy the game got for the last 30 minutes. Shame on the refs for a circus out there, that was the worst I've seen this season, as they truly seemed to make things up as they went.

Now I've got a bit of a tough decision to make, trying to decide if I want to plan my drive back to Florida around the QU game Friday. I'd love to get there for it, but it's a little out of the way, and I'm planning to stay with friends in Albany Friday night.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

That US and News Rankings are pretty convoluted. Quinnipiac isn't even listed or rated in the "National" Universities category While Princeton (#1) Harvard (#2), Ylae (#3), Dartmouth (#11), Cornell (#15), Brown (#16), RPI (#42) and Clarkson (#121) are all ranked.

Many of the others are ranked in the National Liberal Arts category (which Q Pac is not) with Colgate (#34) Union (41) and SLU (56) the only other schools being ranked. By the by Holy Cross is (#34). Q is only rated in the "Northeast Ratings" which are only Regional.

My argument isn't largely based on academics although one could make the case Q is the easiest to enter of any school in the conference....it is based on the "mission" or "intent" of the University with it's athletic programs. They spend and market Q Hockey as if they were a minor league franchise. They are the only team in the ECAC that "markets" their hockey program to that degree. Their athletic budget to promote their hockey and basketball programs is in my opinion more what makes them an awkward fit. The emphasis on athletics, the marketing and spending large amounts of dollars on promoting it and recruiting are what makes me feel they do not fit. They are a Hockey East mentality is every regard and probably (whether these rumors are true or not) will eventually wind up there.

This is such a good post and spot on. As one of the detractors of their coach I'll just say this, if their fans, players, parents, alums, and admin knew all the things that I know, they would share the disgust or they wouldn't have an opinion worth listening to. I am not about to divulge all my sources and betray confidences.

Moreover, I was horrified when they were admitted to the league. It's a black sheep in a flock of golden fleece.

Finally, as for US News and World Report, please don't waste my time. That school ranks BC as the best school in Boston because of criteria other than what really matters. Yeah, like more than maybe 5% of the BC students could get into MIT or Harvard or even Tufts for that matter. The Princeton Review rates SLU very highly in many categories. Q-suc is on par with other parochial and vocational schools whose academic mission and philosophy is completely counter to the liberal arts heart at the core of the ECAC. Q-suc is much closer to Northeastern, U-Mass Lowell and Merrimack than it is to Yale, Princeton, SLU or Colgate. Trust me, except for Pecknold which is a different issue, I wouldn't be thrilled with virtually any of the ACA teams except the service academies. From my first game as a Saint when Plattsburgh State players were jumping out of a red bird house to next Friday's game when they'll probably have their Vegas Style announcer yelling "Let's get ready to rumble" there's schools that are on the same wavelength as SLU and there are schools are not. There's nothing worse than living in a neighborhood of big, beautiful colonial and georgian houses and having someone move in that builds a sprawling ranch and paints it hot pink.

None of this is personally directed at any of the Q-suc faithful on USCHO. If they knew what I knew, I somehow doubt there would be much argument from them.

Of course, we are irrelevant so I'll stop now.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

No matter where each school is placed in those categories, each is given a ranking score from 1-100. Here is the ECAC list

Princeton 100
Harvard 99
Yale 98
Dartmouth 90
Cornell 85
Brown 84
Colgate 83
Quinnipiac 72
St Lawrence 65
RPI 62
Clarkson 41
Union 33

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/st-lawrence-university-2829/rankings

Also as mentioned by Mark earlier, the AD is a BC guy and is now on the way out. Not sure who the next one is.

This implies that Q-suc's score is twice as high as Union's? Give me a ****ing break! That pretty well eviscerates any claim by anyone calling that report credible.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Simply worth noting that we have moved up to #17 in the pairwise. Just keep winning and worry about our own path.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Congrats to the Saints on a fantastic game. Fastest team top to bottom I've seen this year - including BU, Qpac & SCSU. The pace of the first period killed Union and then the floodgates opened. I know its not his team anymore, but Joe Marsh must be pleased with what Carvel is doing. Not to sound like a Harvard fan :rolleyes:, but I do think U was a little banged up from Friday night in Potsdam and hopefully can make a better showing at the rematch in Schenectady. Good luck going foward, would be nice to see you guys make the dance.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Looks like Friday will be an interesting night in Hamden. Anyone making the trip?

Actually, I will be making this trip. This is my first ever visit to the Q and Princeton and I look forward to it, especially if we continue to play the way we have been playing. This team is on a tear of late and they are certainly opening up some eyes. I couldn't be prouder and the first round bye is definitely looking good at this point. WE just got to keep the pedal to the metal. Let's Go Saints!!!
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Well, the score speaks for itself. Really, really wish we could have given Kyle the shutout, but that was a great shot by the Union player.

I was a little disappointed with how chippy the game got for the last 30 minutes. Shame on the refs for a circus out there, that was the worst I've seen this season, as they truly seemed to make things up as they went.

Now I've got a bit of a tough decision to make, trying to decide if I want to plan my drive back to Florida around the QU game Friday. I'd love to get there for it, but it's a little out of the way, and I'm planning to stay with friends in Albany Friday night.

You should go! This is actually a really big game and all the support they can get would be great, especially in a tough environment on the road. I hope we can pull this one off on Friday. My goodness, wouldn't that be something else? :)
 
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Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

This is such a good post and spot on. As one of the detractors of their coach I'll just say this, if their fans, players, parents, alums, and admin knew all the things that I know, they would share the disgust or they wouldn't have an opinion worth listening to. I am not about to divulge all my sources and betray confidences.

Moreover, I was horrified when they were admitted to the league. It's a black sheep in a flock of golden fleece.

Finally, as for US News and World Report, please don't waste my time. That school ranks BC as the best school in Boston because of criteria other than what really matters. Yeah, like more than maybe 5% of the BC students could get into MIT or Harvard or even Tufts for that matter. The Princeton Review rates SLU very highly in many categories. Q-suc is on par with other parochial and vocational schools whose academic mission and philosophy is completely counter to the liberal arts heart at the core of the ECAC. Q-suc is much closer to Northeastern, U-Mass Lowell and Merrimack than it is to Yale, Princeton, SLU or Colgate. Trust me, except for Pecknold which is a different issue, I wouldn't be thrilled with virtually any of the ACA teams except the service academies. From my first game as a Saint when Plattsburgh State players were jumping out of a red bird house to next Friday's game when they'll probably have their Vegas Style announcer yelling "Let's get ready to rumble" there's schools that are on the same wavelength as SLU and there are schools are not. There's nothing worse than living in a neighborhood of big, beautiful colonial and georgian houses and having someone move in that builds a sprawling ranch and paints it hot pink.

None of this is personally directed at any of the Q-suc faithful on USCHO. If they knew what I knew, I somehow doubt there would be much argument from them.

Of course, we are irrelevant so I'll stop now.


As a current Q student I read this and have a very hard time not writing a post directed squarely at Got 6 after everything you have said about Quinnipiac.

I chose to fly across the entire country from California to attend school here. I know with every job interview I go to outside the northeast I will be asked the same question I was asked my senior year in high school, "Quinna-what?" Quinnipiac is obviously the youngest school in the conference. For people that don't know Quinnipiac was actually a 2 year school for awhile as well. I have no shame in that. It doesn't lessen the degree I will receive in a couple months.

I dont often compare Quinnipiac academically to any school in the ECAC for a multitude of reasons. Quinnipiac's strongest programs don't really relate in any way, shape or form to any other schools. Some of the brightest health science students in the country actually attend Quinnipiac. Quinnipiac turns down students with 2100's on their SAT's applying to health sciences. Quinnipiac is elite when it comes to health sciences. If anyone argues that, they have zero idea what they are talking about.

The other aspects of the school are not on the same stage academically. The business school is ranked 66th in the country. It is not entirely hard to get into, hell I got into it. The School of Communications does a fantastic job but is not all that selective when it comes to admissions either, but it is listed above Ivy League school's in this LinkedIn ranking for media professionals (take that with a grain of salt) : https://www.linkedin.com/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-media?trk=edu-rankings-ctg-card . The engineering school is two years old.

Quinnipiac clearly has used it's athletics as a way to promote the school. Any idea why they started doing that 7 years ago and not 15, 20, or 30? Because the academic side has been brought up to a standard the administration feels is strong enough to actively promote and something that they can actually be proud of. So forgive my school for committing money to get its name out but the culture has changed and nowadays smart, driven students don't just show up to a relatively new school by accident.

What I'm getting at is Quinnipiac is a young school. Most of the schools in this country we hold in the highest regard, are the oldest. They have established themselves over a span of 100, 200, and 250+ years. No one is saying Q is just a step below the Ivies. We certainly like to be associated with the Ivies and I know all the other non Ivies would probably own up to that too, but the fact is we are no where near the Ivies as a complete instiution.

I'm not asking people on here to change your perception of Quinnipiac. But I would argue that there is no school in college hockey that has grown academically more in the past 10 years than Quinnipiac. Make no mistake, we are not the school that was accepted into the ECAC 9 years ago. Historically, we just don't stack up to the rest of the conference and we certainly don't fit the mold of the other 11 schools. But does that mean we don't fit? At the end of the day it was the ADs and Presidents of your schools that picked us (Yes HC would of been tapped if not for women's hockey).
 
This implies that Q-suc's score is twice as high as Union's? Give me a ****ing break! That pretty well eviscerates any claim by anyone calling that report credible.

This would imply that SLU is twice as "good" as Union. I only wish! Union & SLU compete for pretty much the same quality of students and offer pretty much the same academics. And, even though I don't like to say it, I think Union has a slight edge over SLU when it comes to admissions rates and SATs. (And SLU has a monstrous edge when it comes to not being located in the heart of Schenectedy) So those numbers appear to be useless even within their own solo of school type.
 
As a current Q student I read this and have a very hard time not writing a post directed squarely at Got 6 after everything you have said about Quinnipiac.

I chose to fly across the entire country from California to attend school here. I know with every job interview I go to outside the northeast I will be asked the same question I was asked my senior year in high school, "Quinna-what?" Quinnipiac is obviously the youngest school in the conference. For people that don't know Quinnipiac was actually a 2 year school for awhile as well. I have no shame in that. It doesn't lessen the degree I will receive in a couple months.

I dont often compare Quinnipiac academically to any school in the ECAC for a multitude of reasons. Quinnipiac's strongest programs don't really relate in any way, shape or form to any other schools. Some of the brightest health science students in the country actually attend Quinnipiac. Quinnipiac turns down students with 2100's on their SAT's applying to health sciences. Quinnipiac is elite when it comes to health sciences. If anyone argues that, they have zero idea what they are talking about.

The other aspects of the school are not on the same stage academically. The business school is ranked 66th in the country. It is not entirely hard to get into, hell I got into it. The School of Communications does a fantastic job but is not all that selective when it comes to admissions either, but it is listed above Ivy League school's in this LinkedIn ranking for media professionals (take that with a grain of salt) : https://www.linkedin.com/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-media?trk=edu-rankings-ctg-card . The engineering school is two years old.

Quinnipiac clearly has used it's athletics as a way to promote the school. Any idea why they started doing that 7 years ago and not 15, 20, or 30? Because the academic side has been brought up to a standard the administration feels is strong enough to actively promote and something that they can actually be proud of. So forgive my school for committing money to get its name out but the culture has changed and nowadays smart, driven students don't just show up to a relatively new school by accident.

What I'm getting at is Quinnipiac is a young school. Most of the schools in this country we hold in the highest regard, are the oldest. They have established themselves over a span of 100, 200, and 250+ years. No one is saying Q is just a step below the Ivies. We certainly like to be associated with the Ivies and I know all the other non Ivies would probably own up to that too, but the fact is we are no where near the Ivies as a complete instiution.

I'm not asking people on here to change your perception of Quinnipiac. But I would argue that there is no school in college hockey that has grown academically more in the past 10 years than Quinnipiac. Make no mistake, we are not the school that was accepted into the ECAC 9 years ago. Historically, we just don't stack up to the rest of the conference and we certainly don't fit the mold of the other 11 schools. But does that mean we don't fit? At the end of the day it was the ADs and Presidents of your schools that picked us (Yes HC would of been tapped if not for women's hockey).

There is no reason in the world why smart people couldn't see value in Q's programs, and apply them with great success. I think most of us here understand that there are countless very intelligent people who don't attend ECAC schools . . . and plenty of knuckleheads at highly respected colleges. I know I've known my share. And I'm sure you're right that Q has worked hard to raise its academic profile. Joining the ECAC was surely part of that strategy. But the school seems to want to use that association while running its athletic programs like Ohio State or Maine. That's really OK, but it just isn't in line with the rest of the conference. That's exactly why UVM left, and I certainly don't have anything against UVM as a university. I'd be happy to send my kids there, but I think they are better suited for Hockey East.

And as far as those rankings go, they are still relative to the categories. As others have pointed out, no ranking with any merit would put Union below Quinnipiac, period. (And most rational people would rank them slightly ahead of SLU for the record.)
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Finally, as for US News and World Report, please don't waste my time.

That's really all that need be said about YouSnooze. It's published to gin up discussion; it's just an irritainment tar-baby. The only way to win is not to play.

SLU is the most improved team, from the beginning of the season to now, in the conference. That includes Dartmouth who is terrifying right now. The whole rest of the conference is praying those two teams meet in the semi to give somebody else a shot at getting to the final.
 
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Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

But the school seems to want to use that association while running its athletic programs like Ohio State or Maine. That's really OK, but it just isn't in line with the rest of the conference.
Can you explain this from your perspective Tim? I really don't understand what you're trying to say (not hard for an old guy like me ;) )
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Congrats to the Saints team, coaches and players on another successful weekend! SLU now turns its head towards next weekend and a chance to make some noise.

The game against Quinnipiac isn't big just for a chance for SLU, with a win, to pull within a point of first place, it's very big in the PWR standings for the NCAA tournament. SLU is currently losing it's PWR point against Northestern. Where SLU has to make up this point is in Common Opponents. The only common opponent left on the schedule to date is Quinnipiac. A win on Friday will flip the Common Opponent Comparison with Northeastern and gain SLU a critical PWR point in the race for the NCAAs.

It looks like SLU is hitting their stride and they will have to bring their A game to beat the current first place team at their barn. If any team can do it right now though, it's the Skating Saints! Keep up the hard work!
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

With all the hue and cry concerning Union's ranking on the US News list, i double checked and found I had transposed the ranking from Union in Kentucky. I double checked all of the others. So Union jumps QU by a point.

Princeton 100
Harvard 99
Yale 98
Dartmouth 90
Cornell 85
Brown 84
Colgate 83
Union 73
Quinnipiac 72
St Lawrence 65
RPI 62
Clarkson 41
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in and give my take on the Qpac ECAC spiel.
RIT has been very obviously positioning themselves to leave Atlantic Hockey for several years now, especially with the new arena.
I'll be honest, most of our fans HATE the AHA and feel like it is holding us back. Besides geographically, we don't fit in very well with the rest of the
league either in terms of hockey investment, fan support, and even enrollment. Being the only school unable to give scholarships isn't ideal for us either.

Back in 2005 when we joined DI, the school stated it's express purpose was to keep academics at the forefront so I wouldn't rule us out for the ECAC on that front either.
I agree that geography and travel partners would be a big hurdle to overcome for us however. Either way I'm interested to see how this plays out.
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I don't really have a dog in this fight -- I would like to see Quinnipiac join Hockey East, so if the ECAC doesn't want them, send 'em our way (you guys want a partially used Notre Dame?) but I just had to chime in to laugh at the guy who said "Quinnipiac academically is nothing like Yale, Princeton or St. Lawrence." Yeah, Yale, Princeton, St. Lawrence... none of those schools stand out as being any different from the rest. LOL
 
Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

I don't really have a dog in this fight -- I would like to see Quinnipiac join Hockey East, so if the ECAC doesn't want them, send 'em our way (you guys want a partially used Notre Dame?)

I want them more than Merrimack, that's for sure.

I've always thought the natural order was Q to HE, RIT to the ECAC. Q fits HE's athlete-student model, RIT fits the ECAC's student-athlete model.

Notre Dame is in kind of a netherworld, but I assume they'll eventually go back to the WCHA-ne-CCHA.
 
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