St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyond?

[bcarlisle]

I'd want UVM back or go after Holy Cross before RIT, but any of the above before the self-promoting, unloveable Q-Peck!

My view is that Q-paq has always viewed the ECAC as nothing but a pit stop on the way to Hockey East.

Here is my scenario. Someday Merrimack is going to just give up. Q-pac will fill that slot so fast you won't know what happened, buying their way in if they have to.

The next ECAC team has to: or should "fit" academically, need to go D1 with women, if they are not already, have some level of geographical integrity.

Here are the possibilities:

1. Forget about any NESCAC team. They can't move up and they won't because they are too busy with their own self- love. Colby, Williams and Middlebury all have the hockey history (all used to be on our schedule) but its never going to happen.

2. R.I.T. is an oddball. OK geography but too close to it's commuter school past for the Ivies, I think, notwithstanding the Liberty League affiliation.

3. Merrimack. They cant keep spending at Hockey East levels. Not exactly an academic powerhouse, but great geographically for Harvard, Dartmouth and Brown. It looks something like the other ECAC small colleges. Does it have a woman's program? Does anyone want anything to do with them?

4. Holy Cross. Perfect. They have a football history with the Ivies. Geography can't be beat. Prestigious history, great academic history. Will they add a woman's D1 program?

5. My choice: Penn. Already an Ivy, with hockey history. The on campus rink is just sitting there. When I was at SLU, they were D1 and the two times we played at Class of '23 Arena, the crowds were better than decent. Philly is a huge hockey town. Perfect travel partner for Princeton and a less taxing road trip as they are about a one hour bus ride apart. We get exposure in another major market. There's some noise among their alumni about bringing hockey back. Ivies would love it. SLU history as Jim Salfi originally built their program.

6, Columbia: an Ivy in a major media market. They need a rink but they have the land for it at the northern tip of Manhattan. The media value would be huge. They would inevitably suck for a four point bonus every year.

7. NYU. Putting increasing dollars into athletics, lots of wealthy alumni. Already a Liberty League affiliate (in golf) would not be academically objectionable to the Ivies. Major market and a 5 minute subway ride for the NYT reporters. Rink is an issue.

8. Notre Dame. Everyone would love having the Fighting Irish sell out their rinks. They attract press like fly paper attracts flies. I think the travel would be a really big issue (for everyone maybe except Notre Dame)

I want nothing to do with Canisius. Vermont is not coming back.

Holy Cross or Penn. Let's oust Q-pac before they oust us.

And, SLU takes Colgate in 2.

 

[vicb]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

A little more than 10 hours to get your picks in. You have until 7PM tonight.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.ph...-Playoffs-2014

1st round contestants who have not submitted picks:

arickeo
Brett Gobe
cudmud
Jack T. Ripper
Maine-iac
Mike Hutter
Nyhockeyguy
rfs04
ufanbill
UnionTDX04
Wholin1

 

[bcarlisle]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

9. Army. More than acceptable to everyone. Past ECAC affiliation. Great geography. They can't be expected to field a woman's D1 team, Never very competitive but Air Force has proven that a service academy can put together a competitive hockey program.

 

[joecct]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Good luck this weekend. I hope it's a sweep as 3 games at Starr is not a torture I'd wish on my worst enemy.

Oh bcarlisle - NYU is a no go. They're D-III.

 

[Kepler]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

2. R.I.T. is an oddball. OK geography but too close to it's commuter school past for the Ivies, I think, notwithstanding the Liberty League affiliation.

We took Q; I do not think this is a problem.

3. Merrimack. They can't keep spending at Hockey East levels. Not exactly an academic powerhouse, but great geographically for Harvard, Dartmouth and Brown. It looks something like the other ECAC small colleges. Does it have a woman's program? Does anyone want anything to do with them?

I don't. They've shown an inability to provide institutional support to their program, why would we want to take that on? It could change -- Union spent a decade staring at their navel before finally and dramatically waking up -- but I pass. It also reinforces the old idea of the ECAC as HE's junior league, and now that we're finally clear of that do not bring it back. No benefit.

4. Holy Cross. Perfect. They have a football history with the Ivies. Geography can't be beat. Prestigious history, great academic history. Will they add a woman's D1 program?

I agree this would be a good choice.

5. My choice: Penn. Already an Ivy, with hockey history. The on campus rink is just sitting there. When I was at SLU, they were D1 and the two times we played at Class of '23 Arena, the crowds were better than decent. Philly is a huge hockey town. Perfect travel partner for Princeton and a less taxing road trip as they are about a one hour bus ride apart. We get exposure in another major market. There's some noise among their alumni about bringing hockey back. Ivies would love it. SLU history as Jim Salfi originally built their program.

Penn has come up whenever this has been discussed over the last 20 years. I'd love it for all the reasons you list. They would need a white knight however -- even though the rink exists it would need an extreme renovation. Too bad Pegula was too dumb to get into Penn.

6, Columbia: an Ivy in a major media market. They need a rink but they have the land for it at the northern tip of Manhattan. The media value would be huge. They would inevitably suck for a four point bonus every year.

Columbia last played varsity hockey before Louis Armstrong made his first recording. That isn't happening.

How about this as a bizarre idea? BU. As with football, someday they are going to get priced out of the state school market. I for one would welcome them with open arms.

 

[Bennycheck]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

10. Syracuse
Fits everything you need and already has a womens team. Only a matter of time before they get a mens hockey team. Just a question of what league they'll want to join and if they'll build an on campus rink. The could play at the Syracuse War Mem. if they could work out a deal with the AHL Crunch for ice time and game dates. The have an on campus rink that would work for pratice, but it's to small for games.
'Gate in 2. Sorry.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

5. My choice: Penn. Already an Ivy, with hockey history. The on campus rink is just sitting there. When I was at SLU, they were D1 and the two times we played at Class of '23 Arena, the crowds were better than decent. Philly is a huge hockey town. Perfect travel partner for Princeton and a less taxing road trip as they are about a one hour bus ride apart. We get exposure in another major market. There's some noise among their alumni about bringing hockey back. Ivies would love it. SLU history as Jim Salfi originally built their program.

I agree Penn would be a great fit for all the reasons you mention. Sam Gellard, father of former Saint player, Mike Gellard played for Penn.

 

[Ivan Lennon]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Great synopsis by the sage of Park Street
Erudition certainly runs in the family
Holy Cross as noted would be ideal assuming women's team

R.I.T. admittedly raises question of travel partner and alleged "commuter school past" as "Mechanics Institute" but other than that meets ALL criteria
for membership including congenial relationships between current A.D.s

Most importantly it is in my backyard

 

[BigAl]

And a D for Q-Pac, Robert Morris and UNO, all fundamentally commuter schools. Pretty dead on grades otherwise. I might give CC an A. That's a pretty tough ticket (if you're not a hockey player)

Quinnipiac is no commuter school and the academics are not "dead." Look I understand the q has little to no history compared to the rest of the ecac but hell most schools in this country don't have history compared to the ecac. Q is a relatively new school but to say academics are dead is a joke. Health sciences at q would stack up with just about any other school in the country and squash 95% of the rest. The business school is 61st in the country and has been the biggest jumper in the last 3 years in the entire nation. The communications school puts more kids at espn then any other school in the nation. And the med school denies Ivy grads.
Your 30 year old opinion is no longer valid. The school has transformed and is listed as the #1 up and coming school in the northeast. So please reevaluate the facts because standards change over a span of 10 years and that's certainly true with q.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Thanks Bruce and Greg for entertaining reading.

Obviously, I love the idea of Penn or Holy Cross. BU, of course that would be great. Hockey East is a league with great teams but it doesn't seem cohesive or as desirable to me as it did in the past. Maine has dropped off as has UNH. UVM has never really made its mark. Merrimack can't compete with BC. Notre Dame further fractures the cohesiveness (except BC) and who knows the impact of UConn next year. Merrimack was an up and coming team 25 years ago, but never capitalized on it. PC is resurgent and obviously geographically acceptable but Leaman (who is a great coach) just fled the ECAC for there. I'd take PC over Merrimack. The only other team I can come up with other than those mentioned is a surging Bentley program. It would be nice to get a school like Bucknell to start up a hockey program. I don't know but we have to undo the mistake of letting them in. When we play them it still feels like a non-league game to me. Anyone else?

I'll let you know who is going to win this series on Sunday night. I know we can, maybe even should, but with this team who ****ing knows. If we capitalize on our chances, keep our PK and team defense playing well and Wenny stays on top of his game it's going to be close. Of course I am rooting for Yale and it's hard not to pull for a big underdog in Dartmouth. I wish Clarkson well. I think Cornell has a big home ice advantage and Clarkson has been melting down lately. Who knows. Should be a good weekend.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Four hours until pregame...

Hey does anyone know if this weekends games broadcast by American One Sports will be in HD? I know Colgate's regular season games were, but with the conversation to American One Sports for the tourney, I'm not sure.

Leckster, I get the sense that the Saints are believing in themselves again. Let's not forget this team went out to North Dakota and won in their barn. They've played well most of the season on the road. Frankly, they have nothing to lose in this series. There should not be much pressure and they should be able to play loose. If they feel good and play hard, good things will happen.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Quinnipiac is no commuter school and the academics are not "dead." Look I understand the q has little to no history compared to the rest of the ecac but hell most schools in this country don't have history compared to the ecac. Q is a relatively new school but to say academics are dead is a joke. Health sciences at q would stack up with just about any other school in the country and squash 95% of the rest. The business school is 61st in the country and has been the biggest jumper in the last 3 years in the entire nation. The communications school puts more kids at espn then any other school in the nation. And the med school denies Ivy grads.
Your 30 year old opinion is no longer valid. The school has transformed and is listed as the #1 up and coming school in the northeast. So please reevaluate the facts because standards change over a span of 10 years and that's certainly true with q.

I believe you are the only ECAC school with a nursing program. You are not liberal arts. You are not Ivy. You are spending a lot of money on self-promotion, TV Infomercials, facilities that goes against the grain of ECAC philosophy which is athletics is a compliment to academics, not the prime time event. Admissions wise, Q-Peck is not as selective as other schools. Most importantly, the philosophy and tone of the programs coach is out of sync with the values of the leagues other members. You are the Rodney Dangerfield to our Caddyshack movie. Other than hockey, I would be surprised if there is any crossover in applicants to other ECAC schools and Q-Peck. Harvard and Yale could outspend you guys 20-1 and us 50-1, but they don't, and that helps keep the integrity of the league and helps us stand for common values. Q-Peck doesn't. Drop the profligate spending and the BC-esque attitude and its possible we will warm to you. But for now, IMO, you just don't fit and it's sacrilege to think about you guys going to LP.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Four hours until pregame...

Hey does anyone know if this weekends games broadcast by American One Sports will be in HD? I know Colgate's regular season games were, but with the conversation to American One Sports for the tourney, I'm not sure.

Leckster, I get the sense that the Saints are believing in themselves again. Let's not forget this team went out to North Dakota and won in their barn. They've played well most of the season on the road. Frankly, they have nothing to lose in this series. There should not be much pressure and they should be able to play loose. If they feel good and play hard, good things will happen.

As our broadcast last weekend was HD probably on our equipment, I am thinking this will be too. Colgate's camera angles kind of suck, but it is what it is.

This team should believe in themselves. When they play well, they can beat anyone, anywhere. In fact, I might argue that our downfall has been believing in ourselves too much at times as that was clearly our downfall at times during this season. I think we beat very good teams in October and then think we can walk over competition in the league but our league is resurgent, with parity and some **** good teams and talent. I do think Wenny is much more confident and playing a lot better. That is good. I think our d is playing better and certainly a lot more diligent in our own end and that is good. We must bring our wheels against Colgate so I wonder if we won't see McGovern who has decent speed. We need to play disciplined. We can and hope we will win. We do not have the same pressure on us as last weekend which is a good thing. I'm too superstitious to predict an outcome. Winning is Fun!!!! Let's hope this is a fun weekend.

 

[Kepler]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

The communications school puts more kids at espn then any other school in the nation.

This kind of undercuts the rest of your arguments...

Q is definitely trying to put itself on the map. The question is whether they are investing in athletics to raise their profile so they can then improve academically or is it just a way to become a more lucrative diploma mill? Are they Michigan or Miami? I'm all for keeping them around while they figure out who they want to be -- they're strengthening the conference and attracting a different demographic which can't hurt. If they bolt to HE we can always backfill with a better fit, and if they stay and keep improving their academics then it's they who will be the better fit. I don't think we lose either way.

And in the meantime the conference attractiveness quotient has gone through the ceiling. A handful of low SAT 9s make up for a lot of high SAT 4s.

Got 6: I'd much rather we have a school with a Nursing program than another Goldman conveyer belt. At least nurses are socially useful.

 

[Spaceman]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

We must bring our wheels against Colgate so I wonder if we won't see McGovern who has decent speed.

I know McGovern has been out with an injury. While at Appleton last weekend I did hear that he might recover in time to play this weekend. Looks like we will find out in a few more hours.

 

[TimU]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I believe you are the only ECAC school with a nursing program.

. . . although UVM has one.

 

[BigAl]

I believe you are the only ECAC school with a nursing program. You are not liberal arts. You are not Ivy. You are spending a lot of money on self-promotion, TV Infomercials, facilities that goes against the grain of ECAC philosophy which is athletics is a compliment to academics, not the prime time event. Admissions wise, Q-Peck is not as selective as other schools. Most importantly, the philosophy and tone of the programs coach is out of sync with the values of the leagues other members. You are the Rodney Dangerfield to our Caddyshack movie. Other than hockey, I would be surprised if there is any crossover in applicants to other ECAC schools and Q-Peck. Harvard and Yale could outspend you guys 20-1 and us 50-1, but they don't, and that helps keep the integrity of the league and helps us stand for common values. Q-Peck doesn't. Drop the profligate spending and the BC-esque attitude and its possible we will warm to you. But for now, IMO, you just don't fit and it's sacrilege to think about you guys going to LP.

First off health sciences is completely different then nursing. PA, PT, OT, AT are health sciences. Nursing is a separate school for every college and Yale has a nursing school. Quinnipiac is clearly using athletics to promote the academics. Athletics are used by schools that aren't ivies that want to become more well known as a doorstep to the university. Meaning that when a high school junior in upstate New York is flipping through the channels and sees a Quinnipiac game on tv for hockey with a sold out crowd, that may peak their interest about the school. No other ecac school does that in any regard, which you view as why q is not good for ecac. But in fact q is doing the entire ecac a favor and more teams should do similar. We want our great hockey conference to receive more national notoriety. We don't want to get complacent and say our schools reputations speak for themselves. An analogy would be coca cola has the largest brand in the world. Everyone knows about them. So why advertise? To keep the brand in front of the public. The schools that can afford to do such things, should do such things. And we shouldn't be criticizing q for doing it either. Whether everyone likes it or not q has done nothing but helped the ecac. Say what you want about academics or rand. But I'd imagine most AD's agree q has been positive for the ecac and at the end of the day we should all be pleased with every school if they are positively affecting this conference. Just my opinion

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

I know McGovern has been out with an injury. While at Appleton last weekend I did hear that he might recover in time to play this weekend. Looks like we will find out in a few more hours.

I thought Carvey said in the "injury' article on USCHO that McGovern was only injured one game and has otherwise been a healthy scratch. Maybe I didn't read that right.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

. . . although UVM has one.

I know but UVM fit in other ways. Ironically, UVM hasn't done so much since moving to Hockey East. It is really hard for any of the non-Boston schools to do well on a sustained basis. Maine and UNH did well for a long time but have faded. So often it feels like everyone else in HEA besides BU and BC are irrelevant.

 

[Kepler]

Re: St. Lawrence University 2013-2014: Carey, Carey, carry us to Placid ... And beyon

Quinnipiac is clearly using athletics to promote the academics. Athletics are used by schools that aren't ivies that want to become more well known as a doorstep to the university. Meaning that when a high school junior in upstate New York is flipping through the channels and sees a Quinnipiac game on tv for hockey with a sold out crowd, that may peak their interest about the school. No other ecac school does that in any regard, which you view as why q is not good for ecac. But in fact q is doing the entire ecac a favor and more teams should do similar

I agree with this completely. Unfortunately we don't (anymore) live in a culture that celebrates or rewards philosophy, astrophysics or dance as much as sports, business and ahem hospitality management so if that's what it takes to get the people in the pews I am all for it. I'm embarrassed to learn that my "institution where any person can find instruction in any study" does not have a Nursing program.

Oh, and good luck to SLU tonight, on a totally off topic tangent...