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St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

ServinisScores said:
*crickets*
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I wouldn't say "crickets" so fast.
I think although disappointing that the "investigation" didn't reveal anything the University was willing to take action on.........I think the issue is far from done. Some people cover their tracks better than others. I'm not sure who the investigators talked to or if as alleged by some, there was a conflict of interest. You can chalk it up to whatever you want.....players being soft or mamby pamby, but: some players do the talking and walking with their feet. Two of them did in Hayton and Benny Fink. They were arguably two of the most talented players on the roster and they got out of dodge.
I think several others are in a pickle. They have scholarships and that's tough to walk away from....particularly if you are injured and because of it have no options on the table. I would not be surprised if we don't see more players depart.
Something up there is fundamentally wrong. Maybe the investigation didn't reveal it, but the record of the team sure says something....and marquee players leaving says something.
It is likely to be crickets on this website as precious few follow or post on USCHO anymore..........all of the SLU action is on the Fan Page on Facebook. Over there it is crickets from the dissenting crowd (myself included) as I'm not sure what to say at this point.
 
critsports said:
I wouldn't say "crickets" so fast.
I think although disappointing that the "investigation" didn't reveal anything the University was willing to take action on.........I think the issue is far from done. Some people cover their tracks better than others. I'm not sure who the investigators talked to or if as alleged by some, there was a conflict of interest. You can chalk it up to whatever you want.....players being soft or mamby pamby, but: some players do the talking and walking with their feet. Two of them did in Hayton and Benny Fink. They were arguably two of the most talented players on the roster and they got out of dodge.
I think several others are in a pickle. They have scholarships and that's tough to walk away from....particularly if you are injured and because of it have no options on the table. I would not be surprised if we don't see more players depart.
Something up there is fundamentally wrong. Maybe the investigation didn't reveal it, but the record of the team sure says something....and marquee players leaving says something.
It is likely to be crickets on this website as precious few follow or post on USCHO anymore..........all of the SLU action is on the Fan Page on Facebook. Over there it is crickets from the dissenting crowd (myself included) as I'm not sure what to say at this point.
Click to expand...

To add to this, Adam Wodon also believes there will be more departures at the end of the season, and that this story isn't over just yet.
 
critsports said:
I wouldn't say "crickets" so fast.
I think although disappointing that the "investigation" didn't reveal anything the University was willing to take action on.........I think the issue is far from done. Some people cover their tracks better than others. I'm not sure who the investigators talked to or if as alleged by some, there was a conflict of interest. You can chalk it up to whatever you want.....players being soft or mamby pamby, but: some players do the talking and walking with their feet. Two of them did in Hayton and Benny Fink. They were arguably two of the most talented players on the roster and they got out of dodge.
I think several others are in a pickle. They have scholarships and that's tough to walk away from....particularly if you are injured and because of it have no options on the table. I would not be surprised if we don't see more players depart.
Something up there is fundamentally wrong. Maybe the investigation didn't reveal it, but the record of the team sure says something....and marquee players leaving says something.
It is likely to be crickets on this website as precious few follow or post on USCHO anymore..........all of the SLU action is on the Fan Page on Facebook. Over there it is crickets from the dissenting crowd (myself included) as I'm not sure what to say at this point.
Click to expand...

Players departing following a coaching change is common, expected and not the least bit unusual. RPI has seen plenty of departures since Appert got canned-- a few by players choice (Nanne, Melanson) and a few more by the new coach's choice, with even more departures expected this spring following the season. By comparison, In case you hadn't noticed, RPI is in a dead heat with SLU for DFL.

After an in-depth investigation which included numerous interviews and review of electronic records, the single "violation" was a lengthy video session? Wow. I'll guarantee you far more serious violations happen weekly in D1 hockey.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot the player who's delicate ego was bruised by "harsh language" by the staff. LMAO.

It's obvious many SLU backers are still butt hurting over the Carvel betrayal and are stuck in victimhood mode. You don't like the new coach, then so be it , but hiding behind the vast coverup story is pathetic IMO.

Sadly, folks are so busy witch hunting they can't bring themselves to credit the team and yes, the STAFF for being a very hard team to play against in the 2nd half. I sure as heck wouldn't want to see the Saints coming into my barn for a first round series.
 
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Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

Wicked Slappaahs said:
Players departing following a coaching change is common, expected and not the least bit unusual. RPI has seen plenty of departures since Appert got canned-- a few by players choice (Nanne, Melanson) and a few more by the new coach's choice, with even more departures expected this spring following the season. By comparison, In case you hadn't noticed, RPI is in a dead heat with SLU for DFL.

After an in-depth investigation which included numerous interviews and review of electronic records, the single "violation" was a lengthy video session? Wow. I'll guarantee you far more serious violations happen weekly in D1 hockey.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot the player who's delicate ego was bruised by "harsh language" by the staff. LMAO.

It's obvious many SLU backers are still butt hurting over the Carvel betrayal and are stuck in victimhood mode. You don't like the new coach, then so be it , but hiding behind the vast coverup story is pathetic IMO.
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Not hiding behind any cover up story. I agree with you completely about coaching changes and I'll admit to being devastated when Coach Carvel left. Any school is going to have players leave or not be happy when a new coach comes in. (Particularly when the style change goes from one stressing speed and skill, to the present one that is about being big, tough, size and sandpaper.)
And I agree that your parallel with RPI is apropos. But Appert got canned for putting horrible teams on the ice that were not competitive year after year. What the investigation was about was very different from that. I was a part of the Investigation. I was interviewed. I know what I said.....I know what I presented and frankly I'm shocked that it wasn't corroborated enough to arrive at a different conclusion. I haven't and never will be able to read the results of the Investigation. And that's a fact. For all we know it could have said some really bad things and SLU isn't obligated to say a word about it. They've just said "no further action is being taken."
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

critsports said:
Not hiding behind any cover up story. I agree with you completely about coaching changes and I'll admit to being devastated when Coach Carvel left. Any school is going to have players leave or not be happy when a new coach comes in. (Particularly when the style change goes from one stressing speed and skill, to the present one that is about being big, tough, size and sandpaper.)
And I agree that your parallel with RPI is apropos. But Appert got canned for putting horrible teams on the ice that were not competitive year after year. What the investigation was about was very different from that. I was a part of the Investigation. I was interviewed. I know what I said.....I know what I presented and frankly I'm shocked that it wasn't corroborated enough to arrive at a different conclusion. I haven't and never will be able to read the results of the Investigation. And that's a fact. For all we know it could have said some really bad things and SLU isn't obligated to say a word about it. They've just said "no further action is being taken."
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Damage is done. What recruits will come? The coach has been cleared, but the investigation still happened. What do the coaches say to potential recruits? 2 players have left and more are expected to leave. The damage will be felt for years. Good luck trying to get high-end recruits to come to SLU.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

recruited said:
The damage will be felt for years. Good luck trying to get high-end recruits to come to SLU.
Click to expand...

You are over-estimating both memories and ethics. Unless another shoe drops, SLU is one Lake Placid appearance from putting this all behind them.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

Wicked Slappaahs said:
I sure as heck wouldn't want to see the Saints coming into my barn for a first round series.
Click to expand...

Every 3-5 years there's a team with a deceptively poor record because of a spate of early injuries or extreme youth that takes a while to come together or team-wide food poisoning at the Canton Pizza Hut. SLU gives every indication of being such a team. I want no part of them.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

critsports said:
I wouldn't say "crickets" so fast.
I think although disappointing that the "investigation" didn't reveal anything the University was willing to take action on.........I think the issue is far from done. Some people cover their tracks better than others. I'm not sure who the investigators talked to or if as alleged by some, there was a conflict of interest. You can chalk it up to whatever you want.....players being soft or mamby pamby, but: some players do the talking and walking with their feet. Two of them did in Hayton and Benny Fink. They were arguably two of the most talented players on the roster and they got out of dodge.
I think several others are in a pickle. They have scholarships and that's tough to walk away from....particularly if you are injured and because of it have no options on the table. I would not be surprised if we don't see more players depart.
Something up there is fundamentally wrong. Maybe the investigation didn't reveal it, but the record of the team sure says something....and marquee players leaving says something.
It is likely to be crickets on this website as precious few follow or post on USCHO anymore..........all of the SLU action is on the Fan Page on Facebook. Over there it is crickets from the dissenting crowd (myself included) as I'm not sure what to say at this point.
Click to expand...

I've always enjoyed watching the SLU programs over the years, hardly ever a down year with exciting players and style spanning a long period of time. And I've always enjoyed reading the SLU posts. I'm perplexed by the conviction and tactics (leaving USCHO) of the SLU fanbase here prior to, and now after the investigation. I'm no fan of Mark Morris, but he's the easiest mark in college hockey. SLU isn't the only program in the ECAC to have their top talent leave, inexplicably. I'm surprised your fanbase has taken a "foil hat" approach to rationalizing what is going on there. Good luck.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

recruited said:
Damage is done. What recruits will come? The coach has been cleared, but the investigation still happened. What do the coaches say to potential recruits? 2 players have left and more are expected to leave. The damage will be felt for years. Good luck trying to get high-end recruits to come to SLU.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure SLU has 10 or more recruits coming in next year.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

critsports said:
...I think although disappointing that the "investigation" didn't reveal anything the University was willing to take action on...I'm not sure who the investigators talked to or if as alleged by some, there was a conflict of interest...Something up there is fundamentally wrong...
Click to expand...

critsports said:
...I know what I presented and frankly I'm shocked that it wasn't corroborated enough to arrive at a different conclusion...
Click to expand...

OK, I don't have a dog in this fight but quotes like these strike me as arrogant pretention. Presumably, SLU spent some six-figure sum to have a credible independent law firm investigate the allegations and that investigation came up with one very minor violation. Time for some people to get over themselves.

SLU may well lose some recruits in the short term but you can be sure they'll be replaced by others who'll be only too happy to play for this coaching staff.
 
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Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

Split-N said:
OK, I don't have a dog in this fight but quotes like these strike me as arrogant pretention. Presumably, SLU spent some six-figure sum to have a credible independent law firm investigate the allegations and that investigation came up with one very minor violation. Time for some people to get over themselves.
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Credible yes.......but as others have pointed out elsewhere, it was SLU's own law firm. Yes they are one of the best and have an arm in Kansas City that does the investigation. Having been involved....my opinion was the investigation was more about covering the University's Liability in this whole thing instead of focusing on what the cause of it was and still is. Arrogant pretention? Think what you want but I know what I know. And having first hand knowledge..........the only conclusion I can draw is that the "report" (which we'll never get to read) was more about hiding/covering and preparing the University for any upcoming bad press and law suits that very well could (and I emphasize the could part) follow.

ServinisScores said:
I've always enjoyed watching the SLU programs over the years, hardly ever a down year with exciting players and style spanning a long period of time. And I've always enjoyed reading the SLU posts. I'm perplexed by the conviction and tactics (leaving USCHO) of the SLU fanbase here prior to, and now after the investigation. I'm no fan of Mark Morris, but he's the easiest mark in college hockey. SLU isn't the only program in the ECAC to have their top talent leave, inexplicably. I'm surprised your fanbase has taken a "foil hat" approach to rationalizing what is going on there. Good luck.
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We (SLU) never had a ton of posters here.....a couple of diehards who many of you know, left and stopped posting here (and never went to Facebook) just because of the hiring of Morris and their dissatisfaction with the hire, the process, etc. They also stopped following SLU hockey period.
The Facebook group just mushroomed......far more "casual" fans and a lot of locals, alumni, etc.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

critsports said:
Credible yes.......but as others have pointed out elsewhere, it was SLU's own law firm. Yes they are one of the best and have an arm in Kansas City that does the investigation. Having been involved....my opinion was the investigation was more about covering the University's Liability in this whole thing instead of focusing on what the cause of it was and still is. Arrogant pretention? Think what you want but I know what I know. And having first hand knowledge..........the only conclusion I can draw is that the "report" (which we'll never get to read) was more about hiding/covering and preparing the University for any upcoming bad press and law suits that very well could (and I emphasize the could part) follow.



We (SLU) never had a ton of posters here.....a couple of diehards who many of you know, left and stopped posting here (and never went to Facebook) just because of the hiring of Morris and their dissatisfaction with the hire, the process, etc. They also stopped following SLU hockey period.
The Facebook group just mushroomed......far more "casual" fans and a lot of locals, alumni, etc.
Click to expand...

I appreciate and thank you for your participation in the investigation. But, perhaps, for some reason, your first hand knowledge couldn't be corroborated by the investigators. And, there is another conclusion that can be drawn about the report-that it is based upon an objective and thorough investigation and draws accurate and reasonable conclusions.

I would like to read the report, and I don't really understand why it's not being released. But I don't conclude that the fact it's confidential means it's a coverup.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

critsports said:
Credible yes.......but as others have pointed out elsewhere, it was SLU's own law firm. Yes they are one of the best and have an arm in Kansas City that does the investigation. Having been involved....my opinion was the investigation was more about covering the University's Liability in this whole thing instead of focusing on what the cause of it was and still is. Arrogant pretention? Think what you want but I know what I know. And having first hand knowledge..........the only conclusion I can draw is that the "report" (which we'll never get to read) was more about hiding/covering and preparing the University for any upcoming bad press and law suits that very well could (and I emphasize the could part) follow.
Click to expand...

I agree. Investigations by law firms hired by the institution being investigated almost always have, as their primary motivation, limiting liability to the institution. I've been following the University of Rochester sexual harassment case. Clearly there the hired law firm's report was to limit the U of R's liability, even though its release forced the President to resign.
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

Well the worst season in my lifetime (38 years old) has officially come to the end and I feel bad for the seniors having their careers end like that. Saw enough home games to never doubt the effort from this group all year long, they left it all on the ice night in and night out. Just came down to the fact that we didn't have the horses and talent to get it done this year. Hopefully the off-season is spent getting bigger, faster and with the addition of newcomers we can start winning some of the 1 goal games and start seeing some positive results in the Coach Morris rebuild. Best of luck to the seniors and Go Saints!
 
Re: St. Lawrence Skating Saints '17-'18

GoldenBear said:
Well the worst season in my lifetime (38 years old) has officially come to the end and I feel bad for the seniors having their careers end like that. Saw enough home games to never doubt the effort from this group all year long, they left it all on the ice night in and night out. Just came down to the fact that we didn't have the horses and talent to get it done this year. Hopefully the off-season is spent getting bigger, faster and with the addition of newcomers we can start winning some of the 1 goal games and start seeing some positive results in the Coach Morris rebuild. Best of luck to the seniors and Go Saints!
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You are absolutely correct in that the effort and drive was there! IMHO, you were short on talent in both D and O zones. You lacked the impact play-maker players although Marnell was very good. Good Luck moving forward.
 
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