Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

[4four4]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

Agreed - there are too many other PC schools to make it possible to continue the name.

I just love the pc police.

Seriously, what a joke.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

Fighting Illini
Utah Utes

Still don't see it happening

'Course all Illinois had to give up was its beloved Chief Illiniwek. No biggie if you're a PC cop.

 

[Goon]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

Hmmmm.... a little **** convent there for the deadline to be right when RHHT gets voted out of office. I say file an extention on it or whatever until the new council can vote on the matter.

Fight On SIOUX!

I bet that happens if RHHiT gets voted out of office, RHHiT claims that even if he goes the pro-name change people don't have the votes. We will see.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

I bet that happens if RHHiT gets voted out of office, RHHiT claims that even if he goes the pro-name change people don't have the votes. We will see.

Last I checked, the October 1st deadline was set by the State of North Dakota, not the Standing Rock Tribe. And RHHT will probably be needing to be looking for a new J O B instead of going to Grand Forks and worring about the nickname.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

I bet that happens if RHHiT gets voted out of office, RHHiT claims that even if he goes the pro-name change people don't have the votes. We will see.

My understanding is that Standing Rock votes are not there to overturn the ruling, irrespective of whether Ron His Horse Is Thunder is voted out or not.

GRAND FORKS, N.D. — The chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe says tribal officials will continue to oppose North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname even if he loses his re-election bid later this month.

Ron His Horse Is Thunder spoke to the state Board of Higher Education at its meeting Thursday. The board has voted to abolish the name and logo unless its gets support from the state's two Sioux tribes by Oct. 1.

His Horse Is Thunder said the most recent vote by the Standing Rock tribal council was 9-3 against the nickname. He said the result shows the council's position does not depend on whether he stays in office.

The ND Board of Higher Ed will almost certainly need to push back their October 1 deadline for that to happen. Who knows if that will happen.

GRAND FORKS, N.D. – An Oct. 1 deadline for the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux nickname will stand, despite pleas Thursday from some nickname supporters to extend it.

The state Board of Higher Education did not have the nickname on its agenda, but several people on both sides of the issue spoke during the public comment portion of the meeting at UND

Personally I'm in favor of UND keeping the "Fighting Sioux" name and logo. It seems to me that the controversy is much deeper than the name itself. At the end of the day I don't see any appreciable positive impact that changing the name will have on the average tribal member, individual or society. Moreover, castigating approaches like this generally are not effective in combating the consequences of racism. Oftentimes it widens the chasm of misunderstanding and suspicion towards each opposing group and results in more divisive attitudes among the general public.

Aversive racists already endorse egalitarian perspectives and nonprejudicial viewpoints. The issues lie much deeper under the guise of traditional values in the form of subtle stereotypical attitudes and biases against minorities. Approaches that emphasize positive norms and celebrate diversity already resident among aversive racial profiles are statistically more efficacious in altering subconscious biases and stereotypes.

Unfortunately, one of the main difficulties in changing the ruling of the Standing Rock tribal council is the inherent nature of the decision making process of traditional American Indian leadership. Tribal councils are not led by one individual. American Indian culture is collectivist in nature and that is a core element in tribal leadership as well. Decisions are the consensus of the tribal leadership and not individual decisions made by any one leader. All opinions on the tribal council are respected and no one leader seeks to further a personal agenda on a matter of tribal importance. Noteworthy is the fact that tribal councils feel they have a responsibility to represent and preserve tribal traditions for future generations.

In my opinion, the clash between individualistic and collectivist cultural values and beliefs in this case has obviously played a role in creating some of the misunderstanding and animosity. Those of us from a Western cultural model don't understand why this is happening if many of the tribal members don't oppose the name. However, from an American Indian point of view tribal leadership has an interconnectedness to the tribe. It is not hierarchical. They are entrusted with the spiritual and cultural tribal traditions now and for future generations. Their decisions are binding and irrevocable, as representative of a measure of integrity as a tribal leader.

 

[Goon]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

My understanding is that Standing Rock votes are not there to overturn the ruling, irrespective of whether Ron His Horse Is Thunder is voted out or not.

So he says, there are a lot of people at Standing Rock on record as wanting to hold a vote so if RHHiT goes down it could shake things up a lot.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

Great news...keep ones fingers crossed.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

So he says, there are a lot of people at Standing Rock on record as wanting to hold a vote so if RHHiT goes down it could shake things up a lot.

That most likely would require a referendum and the BHE to push back the deadline. That seems remote simply because of the time frame and His Horse is Thunder's statement that the Standing Rock constitution doesn't allow petitions to adopt a referendum like the Spirit Lake tribe does. Spirit Lake nickname supporters gathered signatures to petition their tribal council to allow for a referendum. If Ron His Horse Is Thunder were replaced by Charlie Murphy, who favors a referendum and is therefore a favorite of nickname supporters, keep in mind the chairman doesn't get to vote with the tribal council. Secondly, the tribal council would have to be convinced that this issue requires impetuous rebuttal which is uncharacteristic of their leadership style of prolonged diliberations and the negative cultural stigma of recanting on ones word.

Archie Fool Bear had been trying to get the council to approve a reservation vote on the nickname and logo. He says that after many delays, the vote was 8-4 on Sept. 8th not to discuss it.

The sacred pipe ceremony on the grounds of UND in 1969 to confer the use of the "Fighting Sioux" name is also a point of controversy. Documented evidence that such a ceremony took place and if it did, what significance it had apparently is sketchy. The sacred pipe ceremony in American Indian culture is very spiritual and is thought to unite the physical and spiritual worlds. The enactment is binding and immutable. But apparently Ron His Horse Is Thunder did not feel the ceremony was as effectual as some nickname supporters think it was.

Tribal Chairman Ron His Horse is Thunder agreed that the ceremony happened. There were three elders that held the ceremony, he said, but he does not think it's irreversible. Two of the elders died before the resurgence of the nickname controversy, but one was still alive --Aljoe Aggard -- and when the Tribal Council voted to disapprove of the nickname, Aggard joined in.

At the very least, nothing short of a miracle will stop this train. I think if there was a sudden surge of vehement protest, it "might" get the leadership communicating again and there may be a slight glimmer of hope. But time is running out.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Spirit Lake Resolution on Sioux Nickname!

Mr. McNeil (aka Ron His Horse is Thunder) can say whatever he wants about council votes pre- and post- the September 30 tribal elections.

I'm looking at the tribal constitution:

This year, of a 17-person council, the tribe is electing 8 district representatives, plus the chair, vice-chair, and secretary. (Only the six "at-large" representatives are not up for election.)

So, on October 1, eleven of the seventeen council members could be new.

To "know" (as claimed by Mr. McNeil) what that group (with potentially 2/3 turnover) would think or do is not authoritative but merely speculatative.