What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Space Exploration II: Always Looking up

MichVandal said:
Are they? Have they launched people in it, yet? Took considerably less time from the first Apollo test flight to people to the moon landing.
Click to expand...

Just did some googling searching...

First test flight of a Saturn rocket was Feb 16, 1966, first manned launch Oct 12, 1968- 32 months after the first flight test, and that includes a 9 month delay due to the Apollo1 failure. Add another 9 months to Apollo 11. So a grand total of 41 months from first test flight to the moon launch.

First test flight of what seems to be the Starship was Dec 9, 2020. They have had a few other test flights since then- a few getting into space. But we are 44 months since that first test flight and no human has gotten on board. So I'm not sure how going fast and breaking things is such an advantage.

Mind you- by the time X got going with Starship, the had been launching for a really long time, including the super heavy systems. Which was very much based off of NASA's experience, so you can't remotely suggest that SpaceX is new at this. Their choice to reinvent the wheel is theirs. Or more correctly, reinvent the way that the USSR put stuff into space.
 
Are you really surprised? That’s all Techbros do, reinvent stuff that’s already been done. They’ve spent years reinventing trains FFS.
 
Jimjamesak said:
Are you really surprised? That’s all Techbros do, reinvent stuff that’s already been done. They’ve spent years reinventing trains FFS.
Click to expand...

No, not at all. And I expect them to have massive problems of getting a fully loaded Spaceship off the ground given it has to have enough fuel on IT to exit earth orbit, enter lunar orbit, land, take off, exit lunar orbit, re-enter earth orbit, and then finally burn to land.

I remember there used to be some stats of how much fuel per mass to take to the moon, and it was an incredible amount. Which is why NASA abandoned the SpaceX style lander pretty early on in the program. It wasn't practical to build a large enough rocket so that you can land all of your required fuel on the moon. SpaceX is planning to land the launch, de-orbit, re-orbit, re-enter, and landing fuel to the moon. Let alone all of the large systems it will take to carry all of the fuel and the extra mass to move all of that fuel.

It may have appeared to be wasteful to design Apollo like that, but unless they wanted to assemble the ship in space (which is possible and feasible- just really expensive)- the system had to be what it was, and the SaturnV has to be that large. Scaling up to Starship does not seem quite enough, yet.
 
This modern day Gilligan's Island situation could stretch into 2025.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/08/07/starliner-nasa-boeing-spacex/

So, to recap, the thrusters that quit working prior to docking are working now, but are questionable if they would remain working after unlocking to allow the astronauts to de-orbit.

So, if the astronauts stay aboard ISS until either another Boeing flight or a SpaceX return, NASA can just remotely control Starliner and return it to Earth empty, right? Nope. Despite the previous flight being 100% autonomous, that portion of flight control was *removed* from the capsules flight computer. And reloading the old flight software would take months according to one report.

Okay, so they can still come home with SpaceX, right? Kinda. The next crew swap flight is utilizing the four person capsule configuration already to swap ISS guests, and adding two seats to this flight isn't an option.

On top of that, all the docking stations are full right now.
https://www.nasa.gov/international-space-station/space-station-overview/
Dragon and Starliner currently occupy the US docking ports, and resupply ships occupy the Russian docking ports. To make room for a rescue ship, SpaceX needs to come home, or Starliner needs to be abandoned and undocked.
 
aparch said:
or Starliner needs to be abandoned and undocked.
Click to expand...

Can't they put it into a lower orbit and hold it there?

I guess they don't need it for quarters. I always thought ISS worked as a motel, where you pull in your ship and it's your room.
 
Kepler said:
Can't they put it into a lower orbit and hold it there?
Click to expand...

My understanding is they don't currently have a way to autonomously control Starliner to "park" it away from ISS. Someone's gotta be in it to move it.

And, if they do move it, will the thrusters work properly?
 
aparch said:
NASA is poised to make the biggest decision in a generation.

The fate of two astronauts lives hang in the balance. Those making the decisions saw all the concerns waved off before Columbia and don't want to repeat those mistakes.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting that. That's an actual news analysis article. How did that sneak through, post-Eternal September?

Officials believe they understand the cause of the helium leaks and have a plan to manage them on the flight back to Earth. But there are still uncertainties about the thrusters.
Click to expand...

I hope all the data has been released so that the physics and astrophysics and aerospace-whatsis community can comment and analyze. There are about 3k brilliant people on this planet in those disciplines. Couldn't hurt to run the problem by them, and it would detoxify the non-technical financial-political issues that can kill astronauts /challenger.
 
Last edited:
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Place your bets as Elmo's other death trap starts crewed training missions into more dangerous parts of space.
Click to expand...

How is it the most I've heard about this bonkers mission is from this forum? After seeing this I went down a long rabbithole of articles discussing it.

I feel like this is in the spirit of the original space race: "The fact that every part of this ship was built by the low bidder." - Alan Shepard

There's a lot that could go wrong, and yet there seems to be so much to learn if it goes right.


I'm so conflicted with Elmo being the CEO of SpaceX. They have done so many good things, yet he's so cavalier about other things that just don't make sense. Like his Buck Roger's spaceship. Why is he hellbent on making the Aluminum Goose fly?
 
Starliner will return in early September uncrewed. Butch & Suni will come back in early 2025 aboard Dragon 9.

Short Boeing?
 
joecct said:
Starliner will return in early September uncrewed. Butch & Suni will come back in early 2025 aboard Dragon 9.

Short Boeing?
Click to expand...

Wow.

Good for NASA in not risking the lives of the two astronauts in case the thrusters fail again. The biggest obvious issue (second to Boeing) is the incompatibility of space suits between the two launch systems. Really needed to have standardized that sh** ahead of time.

Gonna be some hand wringing if Starliner re-enters with no issues. Again, I feel (in my uneducated opinion) this was the best call.

The software update to Starliner must have been successful?
 
aparch said:
Wow.

Good for NASA in not risking the lives of the two astronauts in case the thrusters fail again. The biggest obvious issue (second to Boeing) is the incompatibility of space suits between the two launch systems. Really needed to have standardized that sh** ahead of time.

Gonna be some hand wringing if Starliner re-enters with no issues. Again, I feel (in my uneducated opinion) this was the best call.

The software update to Starliner must have been successful?
Click to expand...

It really sucks that elmo is going to save them. Dark days for capitalism.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top