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Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

St. Clown said:
the NCHC has more potential money to offer due to having schools that simply put more butts in the seats.
Click to expand...

except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

blackswampboy said:
except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846
Click to expand...

<img src="http://s32.postimg.org/x435qzkut/cookie.jpg" alt="Cookie" height="363" width="350">
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

blackswampboy said:
except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846
Click to expand...

You mean that two teams that both experienced down years on the ice also drew smaller crowds to their rinks than they did during more successful seasons against inferior opponents? I'm shocked that the local fans don't want to show up to support a losing effort.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

St. Clown said:
You mean that two teams that both experienced down years on the ice also drew smaller crowds to their rinks than they did during more successful seasons against inferior opponents? I'm shocked that the local fans don't want to show up to support a losing effort.
Click to expand...

nope, I mean two teams that always have and always will draw better against teams in Michigan and Ohio. just like Minny teams will draw better against whoever ya'll play out there. this ain't rocket science.
but points for trying, anyway.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

davyd83 said:
North Dakota doesn't put any more butts in the seats in KZoo & Oxford than Northern Michigan did.
Click to expand...

Would you like a cookie too?
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

St. Clown said:
I'm not blasting these schools, or saying that they can't compete with the rest of D1, just that they're in a league that's no longer financially appealing to prospective schools that are in leagues like the NCHC or even the B1G Mistake. I won't pretend to know the financial situation of the eastern conferences with the smaller schools, but those are perhaps the only potential schools the WCHA could target for future needs. Your league is just not likely to woo back SCSU or UMD, and could easily lose Mankato State or even BSU should the NCHC decide to poach them because the NCHC has more potential money to offer due to having schools that simply put more butts in the seats.
Click to expand...
So far the split hasn't put any more butts in the seats of the NCHC schools. In comparing average attendance for 2012-13 to last season only UND had a small (0.7%) increase, while the other 7 had drops ranging from -1.5% to -21.7%. Of the 7 with drops, CC and UMD had all-time low averages, while Miami had their second lowest average, since opening their current arenas. SCSU had their lowest average in the past 27 seasons and their average has dropped each of the past two seasons. WMU and Miami have each seen their averages decline the past three seasons. DU has had their 2nd (2014-15), 3rd (last season) and 4th (2013-14) lowest averages since opening their new arena. UNO was headed the same way as their average declined in 2013-14 and 2014-15, but their FF run in 2015 and new arena reversed that trend last season. Overall 5 (CC, DU, MU, SCSU, WMU) had average attendance figures below their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UNO) was at their 15 season average. Of the remaining two, UND was slightly above, while UMD was 18.8% above their 15 season average due to moving to Amsoil Arena in Dec 2010.

As for the WCHA teams, BGSU, MSU and MTU have seen an increase in average attendance last season compared to 2012-13, while the other 7 have seen declines. Two, UAA and NMU, had their lowest averages in the past 15 seasons while UA has their lowest in 2014-15. Two others, MTU and FSU, had their highest average attendance in the past 15 seasons in 2014-15. Overall 5 (BSU, BGSU, FSU, MTU, MSU) had average attendance figures above their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UAH) was less than -1% off. Of the remaining four, two (UA in 2013-14 and LSSU in 2013-14) had all-time low averages in the past three seasons, but both have seen their average attendance rebound, LSSU the past two seasons and UA this past season. The other two (UAA and NMU) are a concern as both have had 3 straight seasons with declines and both had all-time low averages this past season.

Sean
 
Last edited:
Sean Pickett said:
So far the split hasn't put any more butts in the seats of the NCHC schools. In comparing average attendance for 2012-13 to last season only UND had a small (0.7%) increase, while the other 7 had drops ranging from -1.5% to -21.7%. Of the 7 with drops, CC and UMD had all-time low averages, while Miami had their second lowest average, since opening their current arenas. SCSU had their lowest average in the past 27 seasons and their average has dropped each of the past two seasons. WMU and Miami have each seen their averages decline the past three seasons. DU has had their 2nd (2014-15), 3rd (last season) and 4th (2013-14) lowest averages since opening their new arena. UNO was headed the same way as their average declined in 2013-14 and 2014-15, but their FF run in 2015 and new arena reversed that trend last season. Overall 5 (CC, DU, MU, SCSU, WMU) had average attendance figures below their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UNO) was at their 15 season average. Of the remaining two, UND was slightly above, while UMD was 18.8% above their 15 season average due to moving to Amsoil Arena in Dec 2010.

As for the WCHA teams, BGSU, MSU and MTU have seen an increase in average attendance last season compared to 2012-13, while the other 7 have seen declines. Two, UAA and NMU, had their lowest averages in the past 15 seasons while UA has their lowest in 2014-15. Two others, MTU and FSU, had their highest average attendance in the past 15 seasons in 2014-15. Overall 5 (BSU, BGSU, FSU, MTU, MSU) had average attendance figures above their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UAH) was less than -1% off. Of the remaining four, two (UA in 2013-14 and LSSU in 2013-14) had all-time low averages in the past three seasons, but both have seen their average attendance rebound, LSSU the past two seasons and UA this past season. The other two (UAA and NMU) are a concern as both have had 3 straight seasons with declines and both had all-time low averages this past season.

Sean
Click to expand...
Without looking, I suspect declines in attendance is widespread across college hockey. Some B1G teams have also seen attendance drops.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

davyd83 said:
North Dakota doesn't put any more butts in the seats in KZoo & Oxford than Northern Michigan did.
Click to expand...

UND @ WMU Averaged 3476 in this year's series.
UND @ WMU Averaged 3580 in last year's series.

UND @ MIAMI Averaged 3555 in last year's series. Did not play in Oxford this year.

Sorry for using facts... you are clearly mistaken.

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

davyd83 said:
The WCHA was set to be a pretty solid league with a nice compact footprint. Then there was the school that said, "We're committed to the WCHA!" Which ranks right up there with, "Read my lips. No new taxes," and, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, PERIOD."
Click to expand...

The WCHA's "footprint" was an absolute mess with or without St. Cloud. It's telling how badly realignment went that even the better option has been a financial disaster for them, but it would have been even worse if they stayed in the WCHA. Can't blame them for taking the lesser of two evils.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

SJHovey said:
Without looking, I suspect declines in attendance is widespread across college hockey. Some B1G teams have also seen attendance drops.
Click to expand...
Which is one of the reasons I have compiled the attendance figures for the past 15 (or more) seasons. Between 2014-15 and last season 28 schools saw an increase in average attendance and 31 schools saw a decline in average attendance. Between 2012-13 and last season 25 schools saw their average attendance increase and 34 saw it decline. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for newer programs) 29 were above it, 29 were below it and one was at it.

As for the B1G schools, 3 saw declines between 2012-13 and last season and 3 increases. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for PSU) 2 were above it and 4 were below it. Last season PSU had their all-time highest average attendance, UW had their lowest in 15 seasons and the other four were in between, although Minnesota was on the lower end. None have had three straight seasons of declining average attendance, although Michigan has seen declines the past two seasons. On the other hand OSU has seen three straight seasons of increases in average attendance.

Sean
 
gfmorris said:
UAH had an on-campus hockey arena on the five-year capital plan six years ago, and as I remember it, every other major project on the plan was built. Of course, that was a plan developed by the guy who got fired, who was replaced by the guy who nearly killed our program, so, yolo.

Point is: plans change. Are they less likely to change at a large university like ASU? Yes, but cost is a huge factor (see why UAH hasn't built that rink).

GFM
Click to expand...

You somewhat allude to this but I don't think you credit the disparity enough - UAH and ASU are apples to oranges on this front.
 
Sean Pickett said:
Which is one of the reasons I have compiled the attendance figures for the past 15 (or more) seasons. Between 2014-15 and last season 28 schools saw an increase in average attendance and 31 schools saw a decline in average attendance. Between 2012-13 and last season 25 schools saw their average attendance increase and 34 saw it decline. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for newer programs) 29 were above it, 29 were below it and one was at it.

As for the B1G schools, 3 saw declines between 2012-13 and last season and 3 increases. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for PSU) 2 were above it and 4 were below it. Last season PSU had their all-time highest average attendance, UW had their lowest in 15 seasons and the other four were in between, although Minnesota was on the lower end. None have had three straight seasons of declining average attendance, although Michigan has seen declines the past two seasons. On the other hand OSU has seen three straight seasons of increases in average attendance.

Sean
Click to expand...

But they're the NATIONAL.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Dirty said:
<img src="http://s32.postimg.org/x435qzkut/cookie.jpg" alt="Cookie" height="363" width="350">
Click to expand...

Can I have a cookie? Oatmeal raisin please.
 
Sean Pickett said:
Which is one of the reasons I have compiled the attendance figures for the past 15 (or more) seasons. Between 2014-15 and last season 28 schools saw an increase in average attendance and 31 schools saw a decline in average attendance. Between 2012-13 and last season 25 schools saw their average attendance increase and 34 saw it decline. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for newer programs) 29 were above it, 29 were below it and one was at it.

As for the B1G schools, 3 saw declines between 2012-13 and last season and 3 increases. When comparing each school's average for last season to their average for the last 15 seasons (or less for PSU) 2 were above it and 4 were below it. Last season PSU had their all-time highest average attendance, UW had their lowest in 15 seasons and the other four were in between, although Minnesota was on the lower end. None have had three straight seasons of declining average attendance, although Michigan has seen declines the past two seasons. On the other hand OSU has seen three straight seasons of increases in average attendance.

Sean
Click to expand...
Were the outdoor games factored in? A one time game with 40,000 fans can mask average game attendance declines.
 
Last edited:
MaizeRage said:
The WCHA's "footprint" was an absolute mess with or without St. Cloud. It's telling how badly realignment went that even the better option has been a financial disaster for them, but it would have been even worse if they stayed in the WCHA. Can't blame them for taking the lesser of two evils.
Click to expand...

With St Cloud, the WCHA was set to be St Cloud, Bemidji, Mankato, Michigan Tech, NMU and UAA. Other than the flight to UAA, it was all bus travel with the 9 hour NMU/Mankato trip being the longest. That footprint is hardly a mess.
 
Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

St. Clown said:
Yup, SCSU chased the dollars. Most teams in their situation would have as well. What else were they going to say when they weren't receiving an NCHC invitation, pout about it?
Click to expand...

Isn't that basically what Potter did at first? Recall the howling he did about not caring that they weren't invited. :p
 
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