Shannon Miller

[shelfit]

Extensive look at the discrimination and gender equity issues facing women's college coaches. Much of the article is about Shannon Miller's case. And you'll be surprised to learn what she's doing today.

http://www.startribune.com/women-in...win-in-court-and-then-lose-careers/482942381/

An interesting read. From the article:

"Miller is out of sports, running a tour business in Palm Springs, Calif."

And a bit later in the atricle:

"Miller hasn't given up hope of coaching again. She has applied for women's and men's college teams, NHL teams and in college athletics administration. "Whenever someone tells you, 'Shannon, you may never coach again,' you cry," she said.

Three years ago, Miller and Banford opened Sunny Cycle, a touring business similar to the Minneapolis-based Pedal Pub. Miller takes the microphone and shares stories about Palm Springs' history, architecture and famous haunts.

One day last month, a guest rode the Sunny Cycle — Zoe Hickel, UMD's captain from Miller's final season.

"It was just weird seeing my coach in Palm Springs," Hickel said. "With all she's been through, I can't believe how strong she is.""

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Shannon Miller

If she is applying at all these places and not getting hired, which she says she is, sue them based on discrimination. There are men's and women's hockey jobs available, even at a lower level, that she could take due to her love of the game. Mike Eaves ended up coaching @ St. Olaf's for heaven's sake after Wisconsin fired him with a bunch of years on his contract. Why? Because he loves the game and loves teaching the young lads about hockey and life. Miller should follow that path.

 

[shelfit]

If she is applying at all these places and not getting hired, which she says she is, sue them based on discrimination. There are men's and women's hockey jobs available, even at a lower level, that she could take due to her love of the game. Mike Eaves ended up coaching @ St. Olaf's for heaven's sake after Wisconsin fired him with a bunch of years on his contract. Why? Because he loves the game and loves teaching the young lads about hockey and life. Miller should follow that path.

She should apply to St. Ben's. They could use a real hockey coach after so many years without one. Their program is an embarrassment because if it.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Shannon Miller

Mike Eaves ended up coaching @ St. Olaf's for heaven's sake after Wisconsin fired him with a bunch of years on his contract. Why? Because he loves the game and loves teaching the young lads about hockey and life.

Also, Eaves' contract with Wisconsin required him to seek comparable employment in order for him to get his money from UW.

 

[DDad16]

Re: Shannon Miller

She should apply to St. Ben's.

I hear there is an opening at Castleton.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller

If she is applying at all these places and not getting hired, which she says she is, sue them based on discrimination.

Proving discrimination in hiring (as opposed to firing) is almost impossible, even when it happens. That's not true just for gender discrimination, but everything else. Age discrimination, for those who end up unemployed in their mid-40s or older (which I know from personal experience; it's how someone with a masters degree in accounting ends up as a security guard), is endemic, but you can't assemble the evidence to prove it.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller

Extensive look at the discrimination and gender equity issues facing women's college coaches. Much of the article is about Shannon Miller's case. And you'll be surprised to learn what she's doing today.

http://www.startribune.com/women-in...win-in-court-and-then-lose-careers/482942381/

Really I would have been much more surprised if she were coaching. Throughout her career at UMD I saw her be abusive to players (both hers and opponents), officials and fans. I very much doubt that her attitude and behavior didn't extend into her everyday dealings with the school. That sort of crap flies as long as you are winning but ask Woody Hayes what happens when you stop producing national champions and the school stops turning a blind eye to your behavior. Shannon Miller is not a poster child for gender discrimination.

That is not to say women are given a fair shot at coaching jobs. The good news is that the WCHA has doubled the number of women head coaches now (thats right, TWO!!). The bad news is it is only two. MN and WI have the excuse that their teams are at the top nationally every season so no change is necessary. MSU could use the excuse that Harrington's name draws recruits (but I am not sure many 16 year olds know about him) but that won't work if he does not produce at least .500 teams. BSU can claim that Scanlon has made great progress but he probably needs to break through to the NCAA tourney at least once. That leaves SCSU as not currently having a fig leaf. I expect all of those schools (even MN and WI) to feel strong pressure to hire women the next time they look and there is becoming fewer excuses not to give them the shot. I think there are some DIII women who need to be given the chance because they have proven they can produce winners at that level

One thing universities need to do now is to insure more women as assistant coaches. There are still too many guys behind the women's benches and that limits the talent pool. But really, there are not many legitimate excuses for not having many more woman head coaches in DI.

 

[shelfit]

I think there are some DIII women who need to be given the chance because they have proven they can produce winners at that level

One thing universities need to do now is to insure more women as assistant coaches. There are still too many guys behind the women's benches and that limits the talent pool. But really, there are not many legitimate excuses for not having many more woman head coaches in DI.

Which D3 women are you referring to? I know several former players that tried coaching after they graduated and most of them only did it for a few years or less and then got out of it because it wasn't what they thought it would be. They got tired of the grind of coaching. It's not an easy way to live because you have to give up most of your weekends throughout the year for recruiting or for games. The amount of travelling involved isn't for everyone. How do you know if you're going to like coaching if you've never done it before at any level but then you get a job as a college coach right after you graduate? I think that's part of the problem. Former players should have to coach youth hockey first to find out if they enjoy being a coach and then work their way up to becoming a college coach after several years. Hiring of coaches at the college level needs to be based on experience and commitment to coaching and not just on being a former college hockey player.

 

[Scott_TG]

Re: Shannon Miller

Which D3 women are you referring to?

I'm also curious as to who ne7minder is referring to because none of the perennial contenders at the DIII level (Plattsburgh, Norwich, Elmira, Middlebury, Amherst, GAC, UWRF, St. Thomas and Adrian) have a woman as their head coach. Though there are some to be found outside there like Carisa Wahlig who had a good record in 13 years at Lake Forest despite not winning the big one and was just hired by Brown.

Melissa Lomanto with what she's done at Adrian early in her career and what's she's doing now building Morrisville might fit that category of having proven she can produce winners.

Marissa O'Neal has a good win-loss percentage in 9 seasons at Bowdoin but only one NESCAC title and one other NESCAC championship game appearance in that.

Tracy Johnson has a good record in 5 seasons as Stevenson but is 5 seasons enough to say she's proven she's "proven she can produce winners"? She won the CHC but it was all new or fledgling programs with short rosters. Stevenson was in the UCHC this year which means they had to play Elmira and also played Adrian and Norwich out of conference. The scores were not close.

Lindsay Berman is in a simiar situation at UMB. Winning record winning percentage-wise but only 4 seasons in. She had led them to a conference title in that span (in 15-16 by shutting out Norwich).

Emily McNamara is over .500 as a head coach in 6 seasons at Hamilton but hasn't made the NESCAC semifinals yet even though she's gotten them to the NESCAC tourney every year but one.

Natalie Darwitz is 42-31-7 with one conference championship and an NCAA third place trophy in 3 seasons at Hamline. Hamline was very impressive in 17-18 and there's no reason to think Darwitz can't bring them to the perennial contenders list above but it's still early.

Ann Ninnemann is 189-108-35 at UW-Stevens Point with 1 NCHA conference championship and 1 NCAA third-place finish in 13 seasons. (CollegeHockeyStats shows she was a senior playing at Stevens Point in 04-05 and took over the head coaching job in 06-07. Has anyone else in NCAA WIH taken over their old team so soon? That has to be awkward coaching your former teammates...)

Those were the women DIII coaches I found with more than 2 seasons coached and an over .500 career record. I think any of them would be worth a call (as would any of the men coaching the aforementioned perennial contenders). I'm curious if you were referring to any of them or are thinking of someone I forgot.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller

I'm also curious as to who ne7minder is referring to . . .
Those were the women DIII coaches I found with more than 2 seasons coached and an over .500 career record. I think any of them would be worth a call (as would any of the men coaching the aforementioned perennial contenders). I'm curious if you were referring to any of them or are thinking of someone I forgot.

Newman and Darwitz were the two that came to mind as I wrote that, I assumed there are others. To me the big challenge in D-I is in recruiting. I bet it takes more time from a coach than all their other tasks combined and D-III does not have the same sort of competition so it will be a crap shoot. What I look for is someone like Darwitz who could take a mediocre program & propel it to a higher level.

I should have added that there are many D-I assistant coaches who probably have earned at least a look. But I am not familiar enough with name many. Courtney Kennedy comes to mind, I know she was head coach at the HS level & a long time asst as BC. Brittni Smith has not been with Clarkson long but she was also an assistant with Canada's U18 & obviously has worked in a successful program. LeClerc at Colgate, again, not very long but I seem to remember she was a head coach in D-III with some success. I am sure there are others this is just off the top of my head. They at least deserve an interview, there are men's coaches with less of a pedigree who have been given a chance.

 

[shelfit]

Newman and Darwitz were the two that came to mind as I wrote that, I assumed there are others. To me the big challenge in D-I is in recruiting. I bet it takes more time from a coach than all their other tasks combined and D-III does not have the same sort of competition so it will be a crap shoot. What I look for is someone like Darwitz who could take a mediocre program & propel it to a higher level.

I should have added that there are many D-I assistant coaches who probably have earned at least a look. But I am not familiar enough with name many. Courtney Kennedy comes to mind, I know she was head coach at the HS level & a long time asst as BC. Brittni Smith has not been with Clarkson long but she was also an assistant with Canada's U18 & obviously has worked in a successful program. LeClerc at Colgate, again, not very long but I seem to remember she was a head coach in D-III with some success. I am sure there are others this is just off the top of my head. They at least deserve an interview, there are men's coaches with less of a pedigree who have been given a chance.

Which men's coaches are you thinking of that had less of a pedigree? I can think of the guy that was just fired at Brown and the formwr Penn State loser. Some schools have shown a pattern of hiring assistant coaches from their men's team. Elmira and RPI come to mind. Can anyone think of others? Maybe those schools feel it's more important to hire someone who is familiar with their school. In Elmira's case they could hire anyone and still keep winning because they are so committed to their hockey program and everyone knows it including recruits. D3 schools have to make a choice to become a "hockey school" and that includes with their admissions and financial aid offices. Have winning programs ever struggled to get recruits accepted to their schools and for those recruits to be able to afford the school? I've never heard of schools like Elmira, Plattsburgh, Gustavus, Norwich, etc, not being successful with their recruits getting accepted or being able to afford the cost. Some low end D3 programs struggle to have a full roster each year while those programs seem to always have too many players. There are reasons for that and it's not just about who the coach is.

 

[Scott_TG]

Re: Shannon Miller

LeClerc at Colgate, again, not very long but I seem to remember she was a head coach in D-III with some success.

Sophie Leclerc was never a head coach in DIII. She returned to Norwich (where she was a standout player) as an assistant coach for two years following a brief stint as head coach at a prep school. She was on the bench as an assistant the year Norwich got drubbed 9-2 in the title game.

 

[Lindsay]

Re: Shannon Miller

Previous experience head coaching a perennial contender has never been the standard for getting a HC job in women’s hockey. If we ever get to that point great, but we are not there now. But sure, we’re talking about getting female head coaches in place so let’s raise the standard to “has coached a perennial contender.”

Fargo head coached a perennial contender before getting first D1 Head Coach job. Wahlig is a Head Coach proven winner, before getting first D1 Head Coach job. Who are the others?

 

[Lindsay]

I should have added that there are many D-I assistant coaches who probably have earned at least a look. But I am not familiar enough with name many. Courtney Kennedy comes to mind,

100% agree. Kennedy might be very happy at BC and impossible to lure away, but she has to be near the top of potential head coaching lists for AD’s looking to hire.

 

[shelfit]

100% agree. Kennedy might be very happy at BC and impossible to lure away, but she has to be near the top of potential head coaching lists for AD’s looking to hire.

Except I think most AD's don't know much or anything about women's hockey or who the coaches are and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Lindsay]

Except I think most AD's don't know much or anything about women's hockey or who the coaches are and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.

Come on, even if that’s true, Kennedy could get a head coaching job if she wanted one. The question is if one appealing enough comes up, that someone already doesn’t have on lock down by way of being the associate head coach.

I don’t know how much each of the AD’s know. I bet some know the landscape well, some not at all (OSU admitted to being clueless, in an article someone shared here a while back.)

 

[shelfit]

Shannon Miller has a proven track record of winning with 5 national titles backing her up, and she's available. As a bonus she can give campus tours now too! Quite the bang for your buck!

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller

Come on, even if that’s true, Kennedy could get a head coaching job if she wanted one. The question is if one appealing enough comes up, that someone already doesn’t have on lock down by way of being the associate head coach.

I don’t know how much each of the AD’s know. I bet some know the landscape well, some not at all (OSU admitted to being clueless, in an article someone shared here a while back.)

It is safe to put that person on ignore. The signal to noise ratio is very low, mostly they want to troll not add to the conversation

 

[shelfit]

It is safe to put that person on ignore. The signal to noise ratio is very low, mostly they want to troll not add to the conversation

My contributions here far outweigh yours. And I like to tease and have fun too. So do many others here. You have a problem with that?! Too bad buddy! Get lost loser! I have no doubt as a netminder you're full of holes just like your mental capacities. Sieve!

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Shannon Miller

Come on, even if that’s true, Kennedy could get a head coaching job if she wanted one. The question is if one appealing enough comes up, that someone already doesn’t have on lock down by way of being the associate head coach.

I don’t know how much each of the AD’s know. I bet some know the landscape well, some not at all (OSU admitted to being clueless, in an article someone shared here a while back.)

I don't know about the "Kennedy could get a head coaching job if she wanted one" comment. Wouldn't you have said that about Allison Coomey and Katie Lachapelle at BU for many years, yet there they were together behind Durocher for 9 years.... I don't believe for a second that they didn't try to get a head coach job in that time and yet they weren't able to. They have coaching credentials at least as good as Kennedy. It finally took Holy Cross going D1 to get Lachapelle in line and Coomey moved to Penn State as an assistant (not even an associate head coach). I think you assume too much to think that Kennedy is a shoo-in if she wanted to be. Wouldn't Providence be the right opportunity for her (New England, similar to BC, etc.)? For that matter - wouldn't Lachapelle be a good fit for Providence - she's an alum?