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Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Skate79 said:
I thought it was interesting that she referenced Brad Frost when asked about comparable salaries and not the UMD men's coach.
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The reporter referenced Frost. Miller brought up the UMD men's coach, and said her salary should be compared to his, not that of Frost.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

University presidents and AD's only want to see their coach in the news talking about their teams victories, the high graduation rate, and the community service the athletes participate in. It's all about the money. Alumni write big checks, ... or they don't. Mouthing off and offending half the alumni, and probably the majority of the big check writers is a sure way to get shown the door.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Call It said:
I think the following programs should considering hiring Miller for next season... Providence, MN State, RPI, UVM, Union, Robert Morris, Syracuse, St. Lawrence.
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I'm thinking Brown would be a better fit for her


Maybe the Russians will hire her ;)
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Joe Bulldog said:
Doesn't Title IX just require equal numbers of sports for women and men? If pay was also to be equitable, wouldn't all universities except UMD be in violation?
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I'm pretty sure Title 9 requires equal numbers of athletes for each sex in all sports, not the number of sports. It also does not mandate that coaches' pay be equal; for the best example look at men's and women's basketball. Coach Miller has probably come in the closest in terms of matching her male counterpart, but if I recall correctly Sandelin makes approximately $30k-$40k more.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

D2D said:
I'm pretty sure Title 9 requires equal numbers of athletes for each sex in all sports, not the number of sports. It also does not mandate that coaches' pay be equal; for the best example look at men's and women's basketball. Coach Miller has probably come in the closest in terms of matching her male counterpart, but if I recall correctly Sandelin makes approximately $30k-$40k more.
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Neither is correct. Title IX doesn't have any specific benchmarks that must be met. Instead, it mandates that men and women must have substantially equivalent access to opportunities. The Departments of Education and Justice will monitor that and have a three part test that they use to evaluate an institution's compliance:

1) The participation opportunities are substantially proportionate to the makeup of the student body. This includes, but is not limited to, looking at whether the number of athletes for each sex are balanced with regards to the proportions within the student body. It also looks at the adequacy of facilities, travel conditions, what have you. It basically requires treating the male and female athletes equivalently.

2) Failing that, is the institution making progress towards equal opportunities for the underrepresented gender.

3) Failing that, are the demands of the underrepresented gender being adequately met? Basically, if you can't show compliance with the first or second part, you'd better hope that you don't have a serious complaint.

Note that the opportunities for the students are what is important here, not the coaches. Paying widely disparate salaries to the coaches of men's and women's teams is not, and cannot be, a direct violation of Title IX. What it could be is a piece of evidence to suggest that female athletes are not receiving the same opportunities as their male counterparts because the institution is not paying a high enough salary to attract truly qualified candidates. I think it's highly unlikely that UMD would be in any trouble in that regard even if the new coach is paid a third of what Miller is.

Because I hate you all, here is a link to Title 34, Section 106 of the Code of Federal Regulations, which is where the rules for implementing Title IX of the Education Acts of 1972 are listed.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

ARM said:
The reporter referenced Frost. Miller brought up the UMD men's coach, and said her salary should be compared to his, not that of Frost.
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Actually, she only referenced Sandelin after she spoke at length about Frost and compared her track record to his. That was pretty clear from the interview, you couldn't miss it.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Skate79 said:
After reading this article, it is clear to me that this isn't just about money. Berlo wants Miller gone. Out. Finished. No questions asked. He's using the timeline as an excuse.
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Which takes us back to 'there is something else other than money that is the issue here'.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Eeyore, thanks for the clarification(s). If I understand you correctly one key component comes down to ratios, i.e. achieving a balance between the number of male athletes/number of males in student body as compared to the number of female athletes/number of females in student body - not the raw numbers of each. Thus the mandate that each sex has "substantially equivalent access to opportunities", e.g. if females at a given institution outnumber males by a 5-4 margin the school should provide a greater number of opportunities for females to participate in varsity athletics. In order for the school to achieve "perfect" compliance they would offer 25% more open varsity spots (all sports combined) to females than they would to males. Of course in the real world, such perfection would be all but impossible to maintain year-to-year, thus the "substantially equivalent access" and "making progress towards equal opportunities for the underrepresented gender" clauses.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Skate79 said:
Actually, she only referenced Sandelin after she spoke at length about Frost and compared her track record to his.
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Correct. But the first reference to Frost came from the reporter, not Miller. The reporter did not bring up Scott Sandelin.

I wonder what percentage of John Calipari's salary the Kentucky women's basketball coach makes? The price of many things is still driven by supply and demand.
 
Skate79 said:
I didn't see the video until just now. Thanks for the re-post. She mentions a lack of respect from the administration over the past few seasons that got worse every year. I wonder exactly what she was referring to? Other funding cuts for recruiting? Reduced ice time for practice? I thought it was interesting that she referenced Brad Frost when asked about comparable salaries and not the UMD men's coach.
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Last year, UMD spent $103,000 on recruiting for men's sports and just $49,000 on recruiting for all women's sports. So, yes, she is definitely referring to recruiting funding cuts as well as an overall budget cut
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

D2D said:
Eeyore, thanks for the clarification(s). If I understand you correctly one key component comes down to ratios, i.e. achieving a balance between the number of male athletes/number of males in student body as compared to the number of female athletes/number of females in student body - not the raw numbers of each. Thus the mandate that each sex has "substantially equivalent access to opportunities", e.g. if females at a given institution outnumber males by a 5-4 margin the school should provide a greater number of opportunities for females to participate in varsity athletics. In order for the school to achieve "perfect" compliance they would offer 25% more open varsity spots (all sports combined) to females than they would to males. Of course in the real world, such perfection would be all but impossible to maintain year-to-year, thus the "substantially equivalent access" and "making progress towards equal opportunities for the underrepresented gender" clauses.
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Largely correct, but note the phrase "substantially equivalent." The equivalency is generally agreed to be substantial if the numbers are within 10% or so. And also note that the ratio of the number of athletes can be even farther from absolute equivalency if other measures are deemed to be sufficiently equivalent. There is no benchmark for any one thing that an institution could fail to miss and be deemed in violation of Title IX. It's hard to imagine an actually existing scenario in which a school that has equal numbers of male and female students but ten times as many male athletes as female and still be within compliance but constructing a theoretical case in which those female athletes are much more heavily supported in other ways can be done.

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to Title IX compliance.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

brookyone said:
Thanks! Gratifying to have someone else tell it like it is and not pull punches.
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The AD simply should have told it like it was and not threw this unplausable smokescreen out there. The funny thing is had he told it like it was, no one would have argued based on what we all have seen her do in person and what she had done in the past.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

brookyone said:
Thanks! Gratifying to have someone else tell it like it is and not pull punches.
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I agree...interesting.

(As much as you love to hate her...I also agree with you that you have shown tremendous restraint...quite admirable).
 
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