Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

if there is anything we know for certain, it is that she sees the world differently than the rest of us.

Can we take this to mean that you are now speaking for the rest of the planet?

Blackbird can feel free to be included with "she"

Thanks for the latitude that you are extending to me but it's really not necessary since I am neither positvely or negatively emotionally invested in this story as you seem to be.

And maybe I should point out that I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with Eeyore, just bringing attention to the other side of the coin. The "others" that I was referring to were potential employers for Miller. All it would take would be for one of them to have a different viewpoint and offer her something that she could agree to and the negative opinion theorists would be left wondering how they could have gotten it so wrong. Is that likely to happen? Probably not. But not allowing for the possibility isn't exactly accurate thinking either.

 

[Happy]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Is she the highest paid woman's hockey coach in the USA? not just ncaa, but there probably are no women's hockey coaches anywhere who make more.

 

[ARM]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

State senators are getting involved:
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_27585965/senators-question-umd-coachs-firing

 

[Cali]

Can we take this to mean that you are now speaking for the rest of the planet?




Thanks for the latitude that you are extending to me but it's really not necessary since I am neither positvely or negatively emotionally invested in this story as you seem to be.

And maybe I should point out that I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with Eeyore, just bringing attention to the other side of the coin. The "others" that I was referring to were potential employers for Miller. All it would take would be for one of them to have a different viewpoint and offer her something that she could agree to and the negative opinion theorists would be left wondering how they could have gotten it so wrong. Is that likely to happen? Probably not. But not allowing for the possibility isn't exactly accurate thinking either.

I'm rooting for her to then extend her lawsuit to include all the ADs out there that refuse to hire her. That would be logical.

 

[Happy]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

State senators are getting involved:
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_27585965/senators-question-umd-coachs-firing

I noticed mainly twin city dfl's on the list. no one from the duluth area.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

With a brand new program being put together I would not want to have someone else recruit the first class of players especially a guy with no obvious experience in girls' and women's hockey. You get hired only the summer before the program is set to launch and it's a case of "Here's your team. Good luck!" Then you have the potential conflict of what he promised those players compared to your evaluation of those players and what you think will be the best direction for the program's future and some of those players that he liked might not be in your plans. It sets up a bad situation that isn't good for a new program. He brings in players for the first year and by the end of that season you see that several of them had no business being at that level so now they're going to be replaced by better players. Those families would be very upset and for good reason so that leads to more conflict that was very avoidable if the school had gone about the hiring process properly in the first place.

Well I suppose if the team is terrible the first year and you're the new coach it buys you probably at least a couple of years because you didn't pick the team but now you've got to fix it. It also gets you off the hook with getting rid of players that aren't any good because you didn't pick them so you owe them nothing. I still don't think that's the best approach to starting a new program and it could hurt your recruiting right away. I know I would definitely rather pick my own players if I'm the coach of a new program.

This all makes perfect sense to me.

15 years ago that would be true, today a new program is getting the last pick of the litter or someone who wants to go to that college irregardless of hockey

you should review Penn State or any other program recently started...

The process hasn't really changed. What happened "15 years ago" is that the 7 original members of the Women's WCHA all went varsity at about the same time. IIRC the Gophers may have had a head start of a season or two. But big picture, it was a group of 7 teams that were new together, and grew together. North Dakota had a much more difficult time at first, because they were the only newbie when they joined the league. Although not in the WCHA, Penn State's earliest experiences were probably similar to UND's. Being a lone "expansion team" is just a fundamentally different situation. And that factor needs to be taken into account when you evaluate the results of the earliest seasons.

...a new program is going to go through some growing pains, you just need some bodies to put on the ice for the first year

You're right about this part. A new program can't give out all of its scholarships in Year One, or they'll be starting over from scratch in four years. Usually the ranks are filled out with club team alums or recruited walk-ons. In some respects, those players are second-class citizens, which is indeed a delicate situation. But I'm still with shelfit: If I'm the permanent coach, I want to handle that situation personally.

My take? Lebanon Valley wanted to defer the additional salary expense until 2016. Perhaps a necessary compromise; I don't know anything about that school. But I find it very hard to believe there's any sort of competitive advantage in proceeding that way.

 

[Joe Bulldog]

I noticed mainly twin city dfl's on the list. no one from the duluth area.

The two northeastern senators refused to sign, one saying it is not the role of the legislature, and the other saying he doesn't get involved in labor and management disputes. Who knew, politicians with common sense?!

 

[TopShelf88]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Are there schools that would want this coach? Her conduct seems to speak for itself, winning record or not. I would stay away from her if I was an AD. But i'm not of course

 

[Genbeau]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

the whole thing was fubar right from the start, not well played by the new AD, but to play the gender card? while it's not Berkeley, Duluth and the um system are rather progressive, aren't they? pretty sure she was a female when they hired her...and for major jack, too.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Also, I thought they executed a good game plan very well in the second game against the Gophers a couple weeks ago,

because they shelved all the crap, having been soundly defeated, they had no choice but to play hockey instead of hackey

except for poor Kayla Black skating off the ice while Lee Stecklein had possession of the puck. The girl sitting in front of me said Miller had been trying to get her attention for a while to come off, so I suppose Black was looking at Miller while she was coming off instead of Stecklein skating up ice.

this is exactly what you get with a coach like her, if you had your butt chewed numerous times over the years would you be looking at the coach or what is happening on the ice?
coaches like this have essentially trained their players to take too much direction from them rather than thinking for themselves
long time baseball fans will remember Baltimore manager Earl Weaver
Shannon Miller has a very similar style

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

State senators are getting involved:
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_27585965/senators-question-umd-coachs-firing

and our goofy guv has asked to have his name added to the list
watsa matter Mark, forget how to spell your name?

if I were Kaler & Black I would tell them make me the highest paid university president/chancellor and I'll be happy to see that Miller gets her contract renewed

either that or tell them where to stick it

 

[brookyone]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Just had a discussion with one of the folks that signed that letter.

I was just told that the only reason this person put their name on the list is because "my seatmate asked me to sign the letter".

The person had no idea of the players leaving the program, the forfeited games, the suspensions, or the fact that her contract was up. This person thought she was fired....

Also had no response when I asked why no senators from the Arrowhead signed the letter.

Hmmm...sounds like a conversation with a politician. Read the bits in the Pioneer Press, one of which ARM linked. I wasn't going to say it but since their getting as much attention I think it's wise to consider political motivations possibly being a factor per the sudden interest of a few Minnesota legislators.

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

State senators are getting involved:
http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_27585965/senators-question-umd-coachs-firing

Maybe I can save some time for these senators and help them "understand" the situation better.

Comparing placement and records of UMD and their main competition for the last 4 years, UMD has finished 4th each of the last 4 years in the WCHA behind UND, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

overall records for the last 4 years listed by wins, losses, and ties:

UM - 142 - 9 - 7
WIS - 108 - 29 - 10
UND - 88 - 47 - 11
UMD - 69 - 55 - 16

Those numbers don't lie and if I were the highest paid coach with those numbers, I would be thinking my days are numbered when it comes to contract renewal.

Capisce?

 

[D2D]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

A similar article appeared in the Strib yesterday, and it's generated a lot of buzz (200+ comments), a few of which actually made some good points.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/293875851.html

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Maybe I can save some time for these senators and help them "understand" the situation better.

Comparing placement and records of UMD and their main competition for the last 4 years, UMD has finished 4th each of the last 4 years in the WCHA behind UND, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

overall records for the last 4 years listed by wins, losses, and ties:

UM - 142 - 9 - 7
WIS - 108 - 29 - 10
UND - 88 - 47 - 11
UMD - 69 - 55 - 16

Those numbers don't lie and if I were the highest paid coach with those numbers, I would be thinking my days are numbered when it comes to contract renewal.

Capisce?

Also, I think she 'cuts' players at a much higher rate than any of these other teams.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Also, I think she 'cuts' players at a much higher rate than any of these other teams.

Last year for sure, she ditched, maybe 6. I can't recall Johnson booting anyone in the last 3 year's I've been paying attention to the program.

The politicians need to stay out of it. It's between the U and the Miller.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

there is a simple way to solve this:

have the UMD women's team play the UMD men's team with men's rules
if the women can tie or beat the men, then Miller should have her contract renewed at the same pay as the men's coach and the women's team should get the same funding

if not, well I guess the two really aren't equal, are they?

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Maybe I can save some time for these senators and help them "understand" the situation better.

Comparing placement and records of UMD and their main competition for the last 4 years, UMD has finished 4th each of the last 4 years in the WCHA behind UND, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

overall records for the last 4 years listed by wins, losses, and ties:

UM - 142 - 9 - 7
WIS - 108 - 29 - 10
UND - 88 - 47 - 11
UMD - 69 - 55 - 16

Those numbers don't lie and if I were the highest paid coach with those numbers, I would be thinking my days are numbered when it comes to contract renewal.

Capisce?

I have no opinion on whether she should stay or leave. But comparing the difficulty to winning at a division 2 state school versus a Big Ten university is pretty funny. Winning at Minnesota or Wisconsin is far less impressive than winning at UMD. You could argue coaches at the state schools should get more given the disadvantages.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I thought the reason UMD said it was about money was to give her an out and not make her look bad publicly. Whether that's true or not it seems it was a Big Mistake on their part!

Now, in front of the senators they can say:
She is a big pain in the rear that is hard for the people in our department to work with, she represents the University and women's hockey poorly in the way she abuses officials, she is frequently harder and more harsh with players than we feel well represents the University, she cuts players from the program more frequently than we feel is right for our University, and she doesn't win big like she used to.
Simply, her race at UMD is run and it's time.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I have no opinion on whether she should stay or leave. But comparing the difficulty to winning at a division 2 state school versus a Big Ten university is pretty funny. Winning at Minnesota or Wisconsin is far less impressive than winning at UMD. You could argue coaches at the state schools should get more given the disadvantages.

Not only that, but she has to talk players into spending winters (and spring, and fall) in Duluth!

Have you ever been to Duluth? You couldn't talk me into spending that much time there (particularly when the alternatives are Boston, or Madison, or the Twin Cities, or...)