RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Do not get me wrong, all of your points are valid. It is early in the season and lots of new guys getting to know each other. But this is also the same for every other team and as we 'get to know each other and get better', so will every other team. Also, these are not midgets playing out there, they are for the most part 20+ years old men who have played hockey all over the place for much of their lives. If by this stage (both age and hockey experience) they cannot adapt quickly to each other and NCAA Division I play, what makes any of us think they will? After 55+ years of RPI hockey I do not throw in the towel easily. But i must say that our poor starts to the season have become the routine and I for one would just like to see us come out of the gate with some TNT in our skates and I just do not see it this year. In 2 days we get Connecticut. A team that years ago would not even appear on our schedule. Let's see how Saturday goes and we will have more information about how this season might progress.

Isn't "getting to know each other" for the captain's practices before the season starts? Are the kids even doing that anymore, or was it too grey and got shot down?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Aspy Dad,

Did you and Coach Appert have something to do with this?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We're teaming up with <a href="https://twitter.com/AutismAlliance?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@AutismAlliance</a> to host a sensory-friendly day at <a href="https://twitter.com/USAHockeyArena?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@USAHockeyArena</a> Oct. 28!<br><br>Team USA made sensory bottles after practice for fans headed to the game. More about the event: <a href="https://t.co/snjOEQeYad">https://t.co/snjOEQeYad</a> <a href="https://t.co/XtlQUzhyNs">pic.twitter.com/XtlQUzhyNs</a></p>— USA Hockey NTDP (@USAHockeyNTDP) <a href="https://twitter.com/USAHockeyNTDP/status/1052976926908772353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Do not get me wrong, all of your points are valid. It is early in the season and lots of new guys getting to know each other. But this is also the same for every other team and as we 'get to know each other and get better', so will every other team. Also, these are not midgets playing out there, they are for the most part 20+ years old men who have played hockey all over the place for much of their lives. If by this stage (both age and hockey experience) they cannot adapt quickly to each other and NCAA Division I play, what makes any of us think they will? After 55+ years of RPI hockey I do not throw in the towel easily. But i must say that our poor starts to the season have become the routine and I for one would just like to see us come out of the gate with some TNT in our skates and I just do not see it this year. In 2 days we get Connecticut. A team that years ago would not even appear on our schedule. Let's see how Saturday goes and we will have more information about how this season might progress.

Choosing to reply to the good Doc here but this is more of a general post...

I tend to disagree with the guys need to get to know each other statements here. It takes about one or two periods of playing with a set of line mates to understand what they can and cannot do. Sure... it's possible to fine tune and get a little better with even more familiarity but you should get a good gist for how combinations work fairly quickly. This morning I skated with a new center on my line and after the 2nd shift I realized it was going to be a good fit. Granted... I play old man hockey now but any player at any level that has good hockey sense figures this out pretty quickly - or at least should. It doesn't take long to figure out where everyone wants to go. And coaches should see this too. Two things do take more time: getting used to the pace of D1 (for new guys) and getting used to the coaches systems. Honestly... that should take 1-2 months max (IMO). I suggest the Thanksgiving rule of thumb for evaluating your team in the NHL is about right for college too.

One of my pet peeves is the constant line juggling that goes on in hockey these days. Coaches seem to have a waiting period of about 2 games before they start trying something else whenever his team has a bad game or two. Sometimes 2 periods sometimes 2 shifts. I think you should find something that works and give it a longer ride - even when bumps come along. There is way too much over coaching in sports.

And lastly... I will now contradict that statement a bit. Having a working line and an optimum lineup are two different things. 63-37-88 may be the best line in hockey but the B's are just too top heavy IMO. Honestly anyone with 63 & 37 will make a strong line (even Sid Crosby ). Butch Cassidy needs to balance his lineup more as a one line team won't go far in the playoffs. As a Bruin's season ticket holder, I keep waiting for the day that he decides to try to develop a 2nd scoring line with 88. But... I digress.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

One of my pet peeves is the constant line juggling that goes on in hockey these days. Coaches seem to have a waiting period of about 2 games before they start trying something else whenever his team has a bad game or two. Sometimes 2 periods sometimes 2 shifts. I think you should find something that works and give it a longer ride - even when bumps come along. There is way too much over coaching in sports.

Let's take this the other way... Of the lines that were switched, what made you think that they work? As much as I agree there's over-coaching and a lot of mind games being played, if you can get as good of a gist with linemates when out there, maybe the same thing is happening with the 'tute. I'll give you it's been probably since the 12-13 season that I've really seen the same lines be kept for most of the year, but maybe things just really aren't clicking.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Again I go back to the old days. The successful (perhaps not even a strong enough descriptive term) Rusian teams of the old amateur days in the Olympics were usually a set group of five skaters. They kept them together for as much of a shift as possible to then be replaced by the next 5, Detroit in the NHL used a similar strategy for a few years and found it very successful. i could not agree with JMH more. Too much tinkering. These fellows are not little kids. They are for the most part not even teenagers and certainly not new to hockey. They either mesh or they don't. it should not take too long to see it and know what you have. Teams can improve as a season goes along but I think that is not the rule. Even if it were to be then as we learn and mesh and get better, so does everyone else. We did not look good last weekend and that is just a fact. I will hold judgement until after the Union weekend but after that we will have shown what this season will be like.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Again I go back to the old days. The successful (perhaps not even a strong enough descriptive term) Rusian teams of the old amateur days in the Olympics were usually a set group of five skaters. They kept them together for as much of a shift as possible to then be replaced by the next 5, Detroit in the NHL used a similar strategy for a few years and found it very successful. i could not agree with JMH more. Too much tinkering. These fellows are not little kids. They are for the most part not even teenagers and certainly not new to hockey. They either mesh or they don't. it should not take too long to see it and know what you have. Teams can improve as a season goes along but I think that is not the rule. Even if it were to be then as we learn and mesh and get better, so does everyone else. We did not look good last weekend and that is just a fact. I will hold judgement until after the Union weekend but after that we will have shown what this season will be like.

So a group of people who have been working together as a team for all of what , 8 weeks?? and we're declaring that we need to set things in stone ?? I'm not sure in what world that makes sense...regardless of what line of work you're in....

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

So a group of people who have been working together as a team for all of what , 8 weeks?? and we're declaring that we need to set things in stone ?? I'm not sure in what world that makes sense...regardless of what line of work you're in....

The point seems to be that, by now, there has to have been at least some form of cohesion where the coaching staff can confidently say they want to keep X, Y, and Z on the same line. Whether that's the 1st or 4th line that gets drawn up, let's "set that aside" so it can continue to work, and try to get at least 1, maybe 2 more triples, together.

Now here's where the tricky part comes in: League allows only 3 lineup changes on a weekend, and you have some individual situational talents (e.g. Burke's good against muscle play, while DiGrande seems to fit well against the speed teams; not sure if it's 100% the case, but seems that way based on the limited information we have). Maybe you need that use that wild card energy line in such a way, especially if it's impractical to replace an entire line. I'll give you that the extra man this year removes a bit of the wrench, and you can hope to piece things together, although I still believe you should leave the extra man for a utility player.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

So a group of people who have been working together as a team for all of what , 8 weeks?? and we're declaring that we need to set things in stone ?? I'm not sure in what world that makes sense...regardless of what line of work you're in....

WS: Not exactly. Just making the point that it appears almost every year that we start out poorly, the statement is made that we are to wait while everyone gets used to each other. That changes have to made until we find the right lines and pairings. That could be said about every team and every roster. These are guys who have played this game often for almost 15 years and really should adapt quickly and have had to do that every year for a long time. Once they are together, perhaps just leave them that way without making changes every time a shift has a little problem.
BTW, 8 weeks? That's a pretty long time, i would think working together you know what you have in a much shorter time. When i was in Medical School, all of my various rotations through specialties (Surgery, Medicine, OB GYN, Pediatrics, Neurology, etc) were all that length or shorter and i was expected to be qualified in each by the end of that time.
I suppose I am just getting tired of looking through rose colored glasses and making and accepting excuses for why we start each season so terribly and find ourselves in the bottom 10 of the NCAA rankings while we wrestle with the same problems of integrating new players that virtually all of the other programs have also.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

The point seems to be that, by now, there has to have been at least some form of cohesion where the coaching staff can confidently say they want to keep X, Y, and Z on the same line. Whether that's the 1st or 4th line that gets drawn up, let's "set that aside" so it can continue to work, and try to get at least 1, maybe 2 more triples, together.

Now here's where the tricky part comes in: League allows only 3 lineup changes on a weekend, and you have some individual situational talents (e.g. Burke's good against muscle play, while DiGrande seems to fit well against the speed teams; not sure if it's 100% the case, but seems that way based on the limited information we have). Maybe you need that use that wild card energy line in such a way, especially if it's impractical to replace an entire line. I'll give you that the extra man this year removes a bit of the wrench, and you can hope to piece things together, although I still believe you should leave the extra man for a utility player.

FDude: Normally I can follow your reasoning and either agree (more often than I would expect) or disagree (less often but more violently). But in this case, color me sort of confused?? I just do not think that it is all that complicated. Sometimes as a coach you need to just sit back and let these young men go out and play since most of them have had a lot more ice time experience in their lives than some coaches have had. I just think hockey is a sport in which most of the decisions have to made on the ice (with preparation made from behind the bench).

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

FDude: I just do not think that it is all that complicated. Sometimes as a coach you need to just sit back and let these young men go out and play since most of them have had a lot more ice time experience in their lives than some coaches have had. I just think hockey is a sport in which most of the decisions have to made on the ice (with preparation made from behind the bench).

Doc, I totally agree with that statement. And I also agree that all teams have to incorporate new players and will get better as the season progresses. But how many teams have to incorporate half their roster?
This is a very different situation, and we do have to have a little patients.
I have only been following RPI hockey for 25 years and I feel your frustration. Except for the Pirri, D'amigo year, we haven't had a competitive season since the Murley, Tapper, Cavosie teams. And that is way too long.

 

[RegalFan]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

All of this is just our opinions but you don't build chemistry in captain's practice or the first month of official practices , which by the way are limited as to length of time with contact with the coaching staff. Until the live bullets are flying you really don't have a feel as to weather or not players can click together. That's why I believe lines need to stay together for more than a couple of games.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

FDude: Normally I can follow your reasoning and either agree (more often than I would expect) or disagree (less often but more violently). But in this case, color me sort of confused?? I just do not think that it is all that complicated. Sometimes as a coach you need to just sit back and let these young men go out and play since most of them have had a lot more ice time experience in their lives than some coaches have had. I just think hockey is a sport in which most of the decisions have to made on the ice (with preparation made from behind the bench).

It isn't complicated. However, if you're going to be a higher caliber team, you need more than one strong line. Take SLU a few years ago that had the one really strong line, perhaps strongest in the nation. Opposition, such as us, were successful because that top line was shut down and there wasn't much behind it.

Seems we both have the same point, but are phrasing it differently. I'll go back to the question that I posed previously about captain's practices. Are these kids practicing or even scrimmaging over the summer? Are they too busy with NHL camps or other things to be able to do that? I am convinced that's what made us successful as heck in 10-11, despite Pirri and D'Amigo leaving.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

All of this is just our opinions but you don't build chemistry in captain's practice or the first month of official practices , which by the way are limited as to length of time with contact with the coaching staff. Until the live bullets are flying you really don't have a feel as to weather or not players can click together. That's why I believe lines need to stay together for more than a couple of games.

Obviously you can't put something to the test until a "live bullet", but when you only have 34 instances of that, you really need to put more time towards testing in practice or scrimmage. Also, just because they're limited to time with coaching staff doesn't mean they can't get together on their own to scrimmage. There's no rules against the number of times the kids can call up the staff or AD and say, "Reserve me a place where I can train." Staff works to block off a couple hours at Frear Park over the summer, and the kids are good to go. You can easily do two lines vs. two lines (that or thereabout), keep trying different combinations each day until you find something that works. Not sure if there's a science behind it or if it's pure art, but there's gotta be something where you can look at individual skating talents and say, "X and Y are going to work great together."

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Maybe the problem is not being able to see the mainly white red line.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Lugnut forgot to spam is own team this time.

 

[lugnut92]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Because this thread isn't in my "other team threads to spam" folder.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

In case anyone wants the propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU6fBeUxGc

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

Doc, I totally agree with that statement. And I also agree that all teams have to incorporate new players and will get better as the season progresses. But how many teams have to incorporate half their roster?
This is a very different situation, and we do have to have a little patients.
I have only been following RPI hockey for 25 years and I feel your frustration. Except for the Pirri, D'amigo year, we haven't had a competitive season since the Murley, Tapper, Cavosie teams. And that is way too long.

ehf: The frustration for me is nothing new. After all i have been around this team and program since 1963. But way back, we had some years where although we started out a bit poorly, you could see and even feel that things would come together. And it did not take months. Too often we start out the pre season with high hopes but come out flat and seemingly unprepared for the season for several games. There just have been too many seasons starting like that where we turn around in a month and are well below .500. Time passes quickly and especially for us guys who are up in years. What really bothers me that it is even hard for me to remember when we were an ECAC final four team! Jen and i have given away or burned ECAC tournament tickets now for too many years.

 

[RPI fan 4 life]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

BTW Doc, RPI’s last appearance in the ECAC Final Four was in 2002 in Lake Placid (sad, isn’t it?). They finished 3rd winning the consolation game.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Hockey 2018 - 2019: 28 Guys Skate onto a Rink ...

We could use this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Thank you very much. <a href="https://twitter.com/BlckHawksHockey?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BlckHawksHockey</a> Emil Ohrvall capitalizing on the turnover with a quick shot up top <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhosNext?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WhosNext</a> <a href="https://t.co/y7scmJiEsE">pic.twitter.com/y7scmJiEsE</a></p>— USHL (@USHL) <a href="https://twitter.com/USHL/status/1053463084243865601?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>