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RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

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Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

critsports said:
No offense but getting outshot 40-21 against SLU, a more reasonable 40-29 against Clarkson, and 43-19 tonight against Yale.......don't you think you have some cherry colored glasses on? I don't know about you but if I was Appert I would be keeping them on an even and realistic keel. Kudo's to you/they won...but most nights those shot results are going to lead to losses not W's.
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Considering Appert's park the bus strategy, getting outshot is going to happen. Possession and SOG I firmly believe are false metrics in the ECAC because the counter-attack is so prevalent.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

DrDemento said:
Yes. And for me it is a big concern. When you allow 40+ shots per game, I do not care who is in net some are going to deflect or be screened and go in. But somehow they are still undefeated through those 3 games. Can you imagine what the scores might be if we do figure out how to reverse those shot figures? BTW, it is easy to get outshot when you get penalized an extra 2 or 3 times (or more) per game over your opponent. Add up the shots when we play 5 on 5 and the discrepancy is far lower.
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"Doesn't matter how, just how many." -- John Kennedy, RPI Captain 09-11
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

Is their a post-game interview video on-line for the Yale game?
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

FlagDUDE08 said:
Considering Appert's park the bus strategy, getting outshot is going to happen. Possession and SOG I firmly believe are false metrics in the ECAC because the counter-attack is so prevalent.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is just some words that fit the situation we have been in for the past few games. I cannot quote statistics but I truly wonder how many successful teams in any level of hockey get outshot by margins like we have lately (2 to 1 or more) and win more than they lose? What you are saying may sound pretty good but i doubt it exists in the real world of hockey. Being outshot by a couple shots maybe, but when the ice keeps tilting the wrong way you just have too many opportunities for deflections, tips, rebounds, screened shots, etc. You could put Patrick Roy out there and at the NHL level if his team was outshot every game by a 2 to 1 margin, his GAA would be sky high. We may have had a few fluke games recently but the old adage of 'good things happen when you put the puck on the net' is still true.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

DrDemento said:
I wonder if that is just some words that fit the situation we have been in for the past few games. I cannot quote statistics but I truly wonder how many successful teams in any level of hockey get outshot by margins like we have lately (2 to 1 or more) and win more than they lose? What you are saying may sound pretty good but i doubt it exists in the real world of hockey. Being outshot by a couple shots maybe, but when the ice keeps tilting the wrong way you just have too many opportunities for deflections, tips, rebounds, screened shots, etc. You could put Patrick Roy out there and at the NHL level if his team was outshot every game by a 2 to 1 margin, his GAA would be sky high. We may have had a few fluke games recently but the old adage of 'good things happen when you put the puck on the net' is still true.
Click to expand...

There's a metric for this phenomenon at the NHL level - it's referred to as "PDO." Essentially, it measures puck luck. Here's an excellent breakdown of the concept. The higher a team's PDO is, the less likely that team is to sustain it over the course of a larger sample size.

Of course, some teams have exploited PDO - the Rangers and Canadiens are examples of teams with mediocre possession numbers that take advantage of their world class goaltending and opportunistic scoring. However, these teams aren't getting outshot 43-19 every game. More like 30-25, which allows them to remain close to their opponents.

I'm certainly not trying to hijack your thread with prognostications of doom for your team, but I would be wary of the current rate of success you are experiencing if the shot ratio persists. You do have a terrific goaltender, so it's very possible that, if you can keep possession a little closer than you're currently doing, you can find sustainable success that way.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

I may have said this a year ago also, but why do they sell game programs at the HFH without a page to keep score? I like all the historical material (which really should be in a yearbook) but ever since I was a kid attending baseball games, I bought programs to keep score. Clearly things were heading in this direction for many years with the change from plain to glossy paper which is harder to write on with a pencil and including less space for penalties despite there probably being more of them. I suspect that I am not the only one who likes to write things down.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

Man, isn't Yale the worst? Let's keep it going against Brown.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

Ralph Baer said:
I may have said this a year ago also, but why do they sell game programs at the HFH without a page to keep score? I like all the historical material (which really should be in a yearbook) but ever since I was a kid attending baseball games, I bought programs to keep score. Clearly things were heading in this direction for many years with the change from plain to glossy paper which is harder to write on with a pencil and including less space for penalties despite there probably being more of them. I suspect that I am not the only one who likes to write things down.
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Mostly everyone at the game can remember what happens :p
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

Ralph Baer said:
I may have said this a year ago also, but why do they sell game programs at the HFH without a page to keep score? I like all the historical material (which really should be in a yearbook) but ever since I was a kid attending baseball games, I bought programs to keep score. Clearly things were heading in this direction for many years with the change from plain to glossy paper which is harder to write on with a pencil and including less space for penalties despite there probably being more of them. I suspect that I am not the only one who likes to write things down.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a hockey game program (Clarkson, SLU, RPI, Union, Cornell, Princeton, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Syracuse Tourney, Esotero Tourney and NC$$ Tourney) that has a section to keep score. I also like to keep track of scores. Probably due to my growing up and keeping score at baseball games. :)
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

kdiff77 said:
There's a metric for this phenomenon at the NHL level - it's referred to as "PDO." Essentially, it measures puck luck. Here's an excellent breakdown of the concept. The higher a team's PDO is, the less likely that team is to sustain it over the course of a larger sample size.

Of course, some teams have exploited PDO - the Rangers and Canadiens are examples of teams with mediocre possession numbers that take advantage of their world class goaltending and opportunistic scoring. However, these teams aren't getting outshot 43-19 every game. More like 30-25, which allows them to remain close to their opponents.

I'm certainly not trying to hijack your thread with prognostications of doom for your team, but I would be wary of the current rate of success you are experiencing if the shot ratio persists. You do have a terrific goaltender, so it's very possible that, if you can keep possession a little closer than you're currently doing, you can find sustainable success that way.
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Thank you kdiff. The extent that we are being outshot makes me think exactly along the lines of what you have posted. This was exactly my point. After following hockey for over 60 years (and RPI hockey in particular for over 50 years) I have always subscribed to the fact that you have get shots on net to score. And the more shots the merrier.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

FlagDUDE08 said:
Considering Appert's park the bus strategy, getting outshot is going to happen. Possession and SOG I firmly believe are false metrics in the ECAC because the counter-attack is so prevalent.
Click to expand...

These following all applies to last year:


<img src="http://i.imgur.com/nZZPua4.png" width="400"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/vWQm4LH.png" width="400">

You're kind of right, but not really. The r score (Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient) for the correlation between even strength corsi for percentage (our stand-in for fruitful possession) and winning percentage is less for the ECAC (0.5693) than it is for the country as a whole (0.7504). Obviously correlation does not imply causation, but I think it's silly to say that possession doesn't matter in the ECAC. It may matter less in ECAC games than other college hockey games, and it certainly matters less than it does in the NHL.

This article from CHN goes a little more in depth, though it does so on the national level.
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

vicb said:
I have never seen a hockey game program (Clarkson, SLU, RPI, Union, Cornell, Princeton, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Syracuse Tourney, Esotero Tourney and NC$$ Tourney) that has a section to keep score. I also like to keep track of scores. Probably due to my growing up and keeping score at baseball games. :)
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RPI used to have them back in the late 90's and early 2000's
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

Just need to sneak this in-FINAL in football----RPI 23 Union 10. RPI now waits to see if SLU wins or loses. If they lose we get an auto bid to the NCAA tournament. If they win unlikely we get any bid to the big tournament but we would be very likely to play a local playoff game. If I remember well, when i was at RPI we not only never beat Union, we never beat anyone (we tied Nicholls college and finally beat Middlebury after a string of 40+ without a win).
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

DrDemento said:
Just need to sneak this in-FINAL in football----RPI 23 Union 10. RPI now waits to see if SLU wins or loses. If they lose we get an auto bid to the NCAA tournament. If they win unlikely we get any bid to the big tournament but we would be very likely to play a local playoff game. If I remember well, when i was at RPI we not only never beat Union, we never beat anyone (we tied Nicholls college and finally beat Middlebury after a string of 40+ without a win).
Click to expand...

SLU is up 21-14 in the late 4th, according to D3Football.com: http://www.d3football.com/scoreboard/composite
 
Re: RPI Hockey 2015 - 2016:: Six Flags Over the HFH

jericho said:
RPI used to have them back in the late 90's and early 2000's
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Thanks. That saves me from having to look it up when I get home. We also had them earlier, at least since 64-65. So they are something that has disappeared along with the HFH stage, broadcasters on the catwalk, and the Holiday tourney.
 
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