Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
UMASS correctly took a pass on Mongo, expect Ben Barr to get UMASS job.
UMASS correctly took a pass on Mongo, expect Ben Barr to get UMASS job.
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RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
- Thread starter Ralph Baer
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Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Yes, one on each side of the falls. The Canadian side team is in better shape than the American side team.Niagara has two teams?
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
I also think QU is a goner. I think a NY team fits best as a replacement because a spin-off of the IVY teams would leave CHC all by itself in MA. RIT makes more sense to me!
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
The problem with RIT is the travel partner situation. If you assume Quinny out, RIT in, you're left with Princeton and RIT unpaired. That's a 5 hour, 23 minute drive from Princeton to Rochester, so it's obviously not an option. In order to minimize the driving distances between travel partners, everyone but Clarkson and SLU have to be broken up and repaired. You're left with Dartmouth-RPI, Colgate-Union, Cornell-RIT, Princeton-Yale, and Harvard-Brown (solution found by simulated annealing). So no more RPI-Union and Colgate-Cornell rivalry pairs and an overall increase in distance between travel pairs. The Cornell-Princeton pair suggested by FlagDUDE is a four hour drive, a 50% increase over the current long pair (Princeton-Quinnipiac).
Holy Cross, on the other hand, allows you to leave everything alone except Yale-Brown, which is split in favor of Yale-Princeton, and Brown-HC, which is better for distances than even our current system.
If emotions were the only thing involved in picking a new team, RIT is the definite choice, as any conference could stand to use another Upstate NY engineering school (please don't start arguing "upstate"). That said, they just don't make sense geographically. They'd be about as remote as Princeton is now, and would make the OG Tigers have to travel even further.
The problem with RIT is the travel partner situation. If you assume Quinny out, RIT in, you're left with Princeton and RIT unpaired. That's a 5 hour, 23 minute drive from Princeton to Rochester, so it's obviously not an option. In order to minimize the driving distances between travel partners, everyone but Clarkson and SLU have to be broken up and repaired. You're left with Dartmouth-RPI, Colgate-Union, Cornell-RIT, Princeton-Yale, and Harvard-Brown (solution found by simulated annealing). So no more RPI-Union and Colgate-Cornell rivalry pairs and an overall increase in distance between travel pairs. The Cornell-Princeton pair suggested by FlagDUDE is a four hour drive, a 50% increase over the current long pair (Princeton-Quinnipiac).
Holy Cross, on the other hand, allows you to leave everything alone except Yale-Brown, which is split in favor of Yale-Princeton, and Brown-HC, which is better for distances than even our current system.
If emotions were the only thing involved in picking a new team, RIT is the definite choice, as any conference could stand to use another Upstate NY engineering school (please don't start arguing "upstate"). That said, they just don't make sense geographically. They'd be about as remote as Princeton is now, and would make the OG Tigers have to travel even further.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Completely valid points that I agree with. Just think it's jumping the gun to assume Quinnipiac goes to HE. As has been mentioned on other threads and the college hockey community at large - why? They are quite successful where they currently are. A jump to Hockey East is no guarantee of remaining elite among your competition, those teams mostly recruit top, top players. Arguments for are largely about increased exposure, as HE does a much better job of branding and getting itself on TV than ECAC (how bad the ECAC is at these things is a whole separate issue).
I've also read, though have no way to confirm, the administration at Quinnipiac very much likes being in the same breath as Harvard and Yale. If that's true, you definitely lose some school prestige in HE. In general, I think HE taking HC or Mercyhurst is the most likely outcome.
Completely valid points that I agree with. Just think it's jumping the gun to assume Quinnipiac goes to HE. As has been mentioned on other threads and the college hockey community at large - why? They are quite successful where they currently are. A jump to Hockey East is no guarantee of remaining elite among your competition, those teams mostly recruit top, top players. Arguments for are largely about increased exposure, as HE does a much better job of branding and getting itself on TV than ECAC (how bad the ECAC is at these things is a whole separate issue).
I've also read, though have no way to confirm, the administration at Quinnipiac very much likes being in the same breath as Harvard and Yale. If that's true, you definitely lose some school prestige in HE. In general, I think HE taking HC or Mercyhurst is the most likely outcome.
QUAlum2004
Well-known member
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
I don't see any way they take Mercyhurst. That is bad travel situation, a small rink not even close to HE standards. Quinnipiac will be the first choice of HE. If they turn they down then HC gets dibs.
I don't see any way they take Mercyhurst. That is bad travel situation, a small rink not even close to HE standards. Quinnipiac will be the first choice of HE. If they turn they down then HC gets dibs.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
I agree that Q'pac to HE is far from certain. Remember, HE went a couple of years with 11 teams before ND came in. Q'Pac may indeed prefer rubbing elbows with the Ivies, as does RPI, Union, SLU and CCT.
Q'Pac and perhaps RPI are the only likely choices for HE at this juncture. I think RPI is a long shot, at best. I don't believe HC has a suitable rink - does anyone here know? Mercyhurst is too far, doesn't have a comparable building and is just not similar enough to most of the other schools in the league. So, I think it is very difficult to have any idea how this will shake out. If Q'Pac switches to HE, it could be the catalyst for the Ivies to finally split off, take an auto bid and leave the rest of the ECACH teams to fend for themselves with even less to market to TV and national advertisers than they have now. I don't think that will happen just yet, but it could. A league with the remaining 5 ECACH (NY) teams scrambling to get enough viable programs to fill out the league and maintain its automatic NCAA bid would be very sad to watch. At that point, RIT (which is the only NY technical university to make the NCAA in the past several years) and Robert Morris would be "must gets" for the Empire League. They would need 3 more decent teams to be more than a mid-major conference and I don't know where they would come from. Mercyhurst might be one, but pickings get very slim after that, unless there are any new D I programs planning to launch soon. This could make for a very interesting off-season.
I agree that Q'pac to HE is far from certain. Remember, HE went a couple of years with 11 teams before ND came in. Q'Pac may indeed prefer rubbing elbows with the Ivies, as does RPI, Union, SLU and CCT.
Q'Pac and perhaps RPI are the only likely choices for HE at this juncture. I think RPI is a long shot, at best. I don't believe HC has a suitable rink - does anyone here know? Mercyhurst is too far, doesn't have a comparable building and is just not similar enough to most of the other schools in the league. So, I think it is very difficult to have any idea how this will shake out. If Q'Pac switches to HE, it could be the catalyst for the Ivies to finally split off, take an auto bid and leave the rest of the ECACH teams to fend for themselves with even less to market to TV and national advertisers than they have now. I don't think that will happen just yet, but it could. A league with the remaining 5 ECACH (NY) teams scrambling to get enough viable programs to fill out the league and maintain its automatic NCAA bid would be very sad to watch. At that point, RIT (which is the only NY technical university to make the NCAA in the past several years) and Robert Morris would be "must gets" for the Empire League. They would need 3 more decent teams to be more than a mid-major conference and I don't know where they would come from. Mercyhurst might be one, but pickings get very slim after that, unless there are any new D I programs planning to launch soon. This could make for a very interesting off-season.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
When I wrote Mercyhust, I was thinking of Bentley. Quite different. Apologies.
When I wrote Mercyhust, I was thinking of Bentley. Quite different. Apologies.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Here are WAP's thoughts on the topic. http://www.withoutapeer.com/2016/03/moving-parts.html
Here are WAP's thoughts on the topic. http://www.withoutapeer.com/2016/03/moving-parts.html
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
One thing against HC to the ECAC is the same thing that was against them when QU joined -- their women's team. They apparently don't want to become truly D-I there. (It would give UC two victories per year.)
One thing against HC to the ECAC is the same thing that was against them when QU joined -- their women's team. They apparently don't want to become truly D-I there. (It would give UC two victories per year.)
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Negative. They went several years (11, to be exact) with 9 before UVM came in. They went one year with 11 (after Notre Dame joined) while waiting for UConn to get it's **** together.
Negative. They went several years (11, to be exact) with 9 before UVM came in. They went one year with 11 (after Notre Dame joined) while waiting for UConn to get it's **** together.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Add me to the "I don't think QU is going to HE" list. They love their rivalry with Yale and being in a league with the Ivies. It really is a testament to a small school that has grown tremendously and improved its academic perception dramatically in the last 20 years. Furthermore, being in the ECAC they can be a perennial upper echelon program based on their facilities and recruiting/admissions advantages - most of which would go away or be dramatically reduced in HE. TD Bank Center is a very nice facility, but it won't outclass other league buildings like Agganis, Conte, Whitemore, Tsongas, Mullen, whatever UConn comes up with, etc. Similarly, can QU get in anyone that would not also be admitted to Providence, Merrimack, UMass, or many of the state schools?
In addition, would UConn ever view them as a real rival? Unlikely, as UConn will either be very successful in HE (in which case it will overtly try to ignore its smaller, private cross-state opponent and focus on BU/BC) or hockey will just retain its status as the 3rd, or even 4th (to soccer), most popular sport on campus and that won't generate much excitement for matchups with the much smaller private school in Hamden. Yale, on the other hand, can maintain QU as a second or third rival based solely on cross-town proximity.
Add me to the "I don't think QU is going to HE" list. They love their rivalry with Yale and being in a league with the Ivies. It really is a testament to a small school that has grown tremendously and improved its academic perception dramatically in the last 20 years. Furthermore, being in the ECAC they can be a perennial upper echelon program based on their facilities and recruiting/admissions advantages - most of which would go away or be dramatically reduced in HE. TD Bank Center is a very nice facility, but it won't outclass other league buildings like Agganis, Conte, Whitemore, Tsongas, Mullen, whatever UConn comes up with, etc. Similarly, can QU get in anyone that would not also be admitted to Providence, Merrimack, UMass, or many of the state schools?
In addition, would UConn ever view them as a real rival? Unlikely, as UConn will either be very successful in HE (in which case it will overtly try to ignore its smaller, private cross-state opponent and focus on BU/BC) or hockey will just retain its status as the 3rd, or even 4th (to soccer), most popular sport on campus and that won't generate much excitement for matchups with the much smaller private school in Hamden. Yale, on the other hand, can maintain QU as a second or third rival based solely on cross-town proximity.
Thought it was longer at 11, still the point is they have gone with an odd number of teams before, and could again until the right opportunity arises.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
College of The Holy Cross has a decent rink for Atlantic Hockey, but it does not come near H.E. eligibility. It seats only about 2000 with standing room. However, when Connecticut came into H.E., all of their H.E. games are played at the XL Center in Hartford, CT. and not at the campus rink in Storrs, CT. The XL Center seats 15,000+ for hockey and is also the home rink of the (AHL) Hartford Wolf Pack. Fortunately if Holy Cross were to be admitted into H.E. the college is literally right up the street from the Worcester DCU Center which seats 12,000+ for hockey. Up until this season the DCU Center had been the home rink of the (AHL) Worcester Sharks. Worcester is now with out a hockey team. This season Holy Cross did use the DCU Center for a game against Princeton. This would also be a geographical bonus for Holy Cross as most of the H.E. teams are much closer than many of the other Atlantic Hockey teams they play now.
College of The Holy Cross has a decent rink for Atlantic Hockey, but it does not come near H.E. eligibility. It seats only about 2000 with standing room. However, when Connecticut came into H.E., all of their H.E. games are played at the XL Center in Hartford, CT. and not at the campus rink in Storrs, CT. The XL Center seats 15,000+ for hockey and is also the home rink of the (AHL) Hartford Wolf Pack. Fortunately if Holy Cross were to be admitted into H.E. the college is literally right up the street from the Worcester DCU Center which seats 12,000+ for hockey. Up until this season the DCU Center had been the home rink of the (AHL) Worcester Sharks. Worcester is now with out a hockey team. This season Holy Cross did use the DCU Center for a game against Princeton. This would also be a geographical bonus for Holy Cross as most of the H.E. teams are much closer than many of the other Atlantic Hockey teams they play now.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
Today is 24 March 2016. There are 191 days until RPI's next game.
This is based upon 1 October 2016 for the start of next season.
Today is 24 March 2016. There are 191 days until RPI's next game.
This is based upon 1 October 2016 for the start of next season.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
I don't know see what if anything QU gains by bolting for HE. As others have noted, they are a big fish in the ECAC and seem to like rubbing elbows with the Ivies. If exposure/visibility of ECAC hockey are problems (and I believe they are), there are other ways to address/correct this short of departing for another league (there were a ton of empty seats in LP last weekend and I would experiment with bringing back the "HockeyFest" weekend in Boston with ECAC and HE semis and finals all at the Garden in one weekend).
A stronger case could be made for Holy Cross to HE. Yes, the facility is subpar by Hockey East standards, but you've got already got two mid-size Catholic schools in Hockey East in Providence and Merrimack, and Holy Cross could fit pretty comfortably as a third. I guess it's a question of HC's administrative commitment to sports. I'm not sure it's there and they may be content staying in Atlantic Hockey.
As for RPI, I think that ship sailed long, long ago, and it sounds like the Institute has bigger worries at the moment than which conference their hockey teams play in.
I don't know see what if anything QU gains by bolting for HE. As others have noted, they are a big fish in the ECAC and seem to like rubbing elbows with the Ivies. If exposure/visibility of ECAC hockey are problems (and I believe they are), there are other ways to address/correct this short of departing for another league (there were a ton of empty seats in LP last weekend and I would experiment with bringing back the "HockeyFest" weekend in Boston with ECAC and HE semis and finals all at the Garden in one weekend).
A stronger case could be made for Holy Cross to HE. Yes, the facility is subpar by Hockey East standards, but you've got already got two mid-size Catholic schools in Hockey East in Providence and Merrimack, and Holy Cross could fit pretty comfortably as a third. I guess it's a question of HC's administrative commitment to sports. I'm not sure it's there and they may be content staying in Atlantic Hockey.
As for RPI, I think that ship sailed long, long ago, and it sounds like the Institute has bigger worries at the moment than which conference their hockey teams play in.
QUAlum2004
Well-known member
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
I would love to bring the ECAC tournament back to the Garden because I feel it will get the more casual hockey fan to fill up the arena not just the teams there.
I would love to bring the ECAC tournament back to the Garden because I feel it will get the more casual hockey fan to fill up the arena not just the teams there.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
They played second diddle to HEA when it was there after the split. it isn't clear how it would change.
BTW, I assume that you mean "the Gahden". If you meant "the Garden" (i.e., MSG), that would present additional advantages and disadvantages.
They played second diddle to HEA when it was there after the split. it isn't clear how it would change.
BTW, I assume that you mean "the Gahden". If you meant "the Garden" (i.e., MSG), that would present additional advantages and disadvantages.
Re: RPI 2016 Off Season thread: A Drivel-free Summer
See, you're contradicting yourself. Yes, Q is a big fish in a relatively small pond, but so is the ECAC in Lake Placid. Yes, LP is difficult for media, etc. to get to, but, when you think Lake Placid, you immediately think hockey, so the ECAC benefits that weekend. I think the attendance troubles stems more from the fact of the teams that were there. You had one team who is less than two hours away (and whose fans travel well anyway,) the presumptive favorite for the NCAA championship whose fans tavel OK, and Harvard and Dartmouth, two of the worst travelling teams in the league. Once you get four teams who travel well (LP's ideal would be SLU, Clarkson, Cornell and RPI) you'll see the attendance problems alleviate. If the ECAC and HEA were to do a joint weekend, you may see the ECAC back on tape delay.
See, you're contradicting yourself. Yes, Q is a big fish in a relatively small pond, but so is the ECAC in Lake Placid. Yes, LP is difficult for media, etc. to get to, but, when you think Lake Placid, you immediately think hockey, so the ECAC benefits that weekend. I think the attendance troubles stems more from the fact of the teams that were there. You had one team who is less than two hours away (and whose fans travel well anyway,) the presumptive favorite for the NCAA championship whose fans tavel OK, and Harvard and Dartmouth, two of the worst travelling teams in the league. Once you get four teams who travel well (LP's ideal would be SLU, Clarkson, Cornell and RPI) you'll see the attendance problems alleviate. If the ECAC and HEA were to do a joint weekend, you may see the ECAC back on tape delay.
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