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>>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

jflory81 said:
Frankly, it sounds like you're the one reading from a boxscore in an attempt to make Friday's game look better than it really was here. They were badly outplayed for all but about 10 minutes in the 2nd period where they were ascendant when they were down 3 goals. Everything outside of that 10 minutes came from the outside and had very little chance of beating a good keeper. Then, once they scored, Arizona State turned the screws and not only allowed just 7 shots over the final 22 minutes or so but scored 3 more times to put the game away. Yes, there were a couple soft goals, but there were plenty of other grade-A chances Arizona State had that didn't go in. The SOG total of this game was deceiving - RIT was never really in the game while it was close.
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I'm going to somewhat disagree here. I thought for the most part, RIT pretty much held their own. It was not for lack of effort that they came up short. Arizona State was just better and yes, they did tighten up at the end of the game. Don't forget that Arizona State was the team that had more pressure to win as they don't have a conference tournament to win to get in. A loss to RIT would have been a disaster for their tournament chances. RIT had a super slim chance to get an at large.
Mediocre might be harsh when describing RIT with regards to the rest of the conference, but they have been barely above average in winning percentage for about 7-8 years. To be exact, from 2012-2019 they are a grand total of 5 games over .500 over 186 games. That's a .513 winning percentage over 7 years of play.
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Can we compare that to the rest of the league? And are you going off overall records and not league records. For the most part, and especially the last couple years, the bottom of the league has improved quite a bit. AIC was a bottom feeder until a couple years ago - now they are the favorite to win the conference regular season title. Holy Cross was a solid team - but now are near the bottom. Same with Canisius. The worst RIT has been in conference is 4 games below .500 - hardly a dramatic fall off a cliff. The league has gotten more competitive that records like that now produce 8th and 9th place finishes instead of 6 or 7.
As for the conference, mediocre is being kind. For all the improvements the bottom of the league has made, the conference is still playing less than .300 hockey against the rest of the country - lower than the last two seasons (when it peaked at .330), and even at .330 you're still looking at the worst conference in college hockey.
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I'm not going to deny that they are the worst in terms of OOC. But the biggest improvements have just recently happened and I think a little more time is needed to determine if they are helping OOC. However, it's been shown in the NCAAs that the best teams in Atlantic Hockey can win and it's not as big of a shock now as it was when Holy Cross was the first team to break through.
 
komey1 said:
I'm going to somewhat disagree here. I thought for the most part, RIT pretty much held their own. It was not for lack of effort that they came up short. Arizona State was just better and yes, they did tighten up at the end of the game. Don't forget that Arizona State was the team that had more pressure to win as they don't have a conference tournament to win to get in. A loss to RIT would have been a disaster for their tournament chances. RIT had a super slim chance to get an at large.
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I didn't say anything about their effort, or any of the circumstances surrounding the game that made it more important for Arizona State. I was merely making the point that they were soundly beaten on Friday night; which they were.
Can we compare that to the rest of the league? And are you going off overall records and not league records. For the most part, and especially the last couple years, the bottom of the league has improved quite a bit. AIC was a bottom feeder until a couple years ago - now they are the favorite to win the conference regular season title. Holy Cross was a solid team - but now are near the bottom. Same with Canisius. The worst RIT has been in conference is 4 games below .500 - hardly a dramatic fall off a cliff. The league has gotten more competitive that records like that now produce 8th and 9th place finishes instead of 6 or 7.
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The record I stated was league, not overall. They're 15 games below .500 overall over the past 7 years. And that league record is far below Air Force, Mercyhurst, and Robert Morris; teams that we were either the same calibre as or slightly above leading up to the 2012-13 season. And frankly, a couple of seasons 4 games below .500 is falling off a cliff from where they were. "Mediocre" is hardly an unfair description of a team that's failed to get out of the first round of Atlantic Hockey play over the two seasons - something that happens to just 3 of 11 teams a year. In fact, in terms of playoff success, we are the worst team in the AHA over the past two years, bar none. I don't really care about hearing of other once good teams who have fallen behind the pack; the point is making sure it doesn't happen to us (or, given the past 7 years overall, that we climb back up to our previous standard of excellence. That doesn't necessarily mean better than .700 hockey like it did when showing up was enough to beat AIC, but it does mean competing for conference championships more often than we have been and achieving more playoff byes and home 2nd round series.


I'm not going to deny that they are the worst in terms of OOC. But the biggest improvements have just recently happened and I think a little more time is needed to determine if they are helping OOC. However, it's been shown in the NCAAs that the best teams in Atlantic Hockey can win and it's not as big of a shock now as it was when Holy Cross was the first team to break through.
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I don't disagree that the best AHA teams are competitive in the tournament, but that's been going on for awhile now. It's not exactly a new phenomenon. That doesn't change the fact that this year's OOC record has slid back a bit. The reality is that RIT has taken a couple of steps back from their hey day, while the bottom feeders have taken a step forward.
 
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

jflory81 said:
The reality is that RIT has taken a couple of steps back from their hey day, while the bottom feeders have taken a step forward.
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Obviously the last two seasons ended poorly, though injuries had a lot to do with that. But as far as overall quality of play, I'm not seeing a huge drop-off from ten years ago. (2009-2010 was obviously a really special team; that level of play is a nice goal to aim for but I don't know if it's reasonable to expect it every year.) The team is still competitive OOC and is getting blown out less often. The conference competition is tougher; that's the main change I see.
 
LtPowers said:
Obviously the last two seasons ended poorly, though injuries had a lot to do with that. But as far as overall quality of play, I'm not seeing a huge drop-off from ten years ago. (2009-2010 was obviously a really special team; that level of play is a nice goal to aim for but I don't know if it's reasonable to expect it every year.) The team is still competitive OOC and is getting blown out less often. The conference competition is tougher; that's the main change I see.
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I am. If it was just the bottom getting better, we wouldn't have slipped below the other "elite" teams in winning percentage over the last 7 years - the gap would have just shrunk between the top and the bottom. But instead, both are happening.

If you're standing still while everyone else is moving ahead, then in reality you're falling behind.

Komey asked about how our winning percentage looked repsective to other Atlantic Hockey teams...well, here's a stat for you: the last time a class at RIT finished in the top half of the cumulative standings was 2013-14, when they just barely squeaked in at 6th out of 12 teams. That record includes the extremely strong 2010-11 team with Favot, Brenner, etc.

Here's the rest of the senior classes of recent past (with the years the class played in () ):
2013-14: 6th out of 12 (2010-14)
2014-15: 8th out of 12 (2011-15)
2015-16: 7th out of 12 (2012-16)
2016-17: 8th out of 12 (2013-17)
2017-18: 6th out of 11 (2014-18)
2018-19: 6th out of 11 (2015-19)

That's mediocrity.

I don't think I have to tell you where the senior classes from 2008 to 2013 finished (covering from 2006 to 2013), but I will anyway. They were either 1st or 2nd (and every time they were 2nd it was to a class that didn't play a full 4 years in the AHA). Even the 2012-13 Senior class finished 2nd, and that was with their senior year being the beginning of the down period (2010-12 was strong enough to keep them in the upper echelon.) And to reiterate and preempt the claim that it was just the great 2009-10 team lifting up that era, you can COMPLETELY take that season out of that groups cumulative record, and they still would have had the best 3 year span in Atlantic Hockey history.
 
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

jflory81 said:
I am. If it was just the bottom getting better, we wouldn't have slipped below the other "elite" teams in winning percentage over the last 7 years - the gap would have just shrunk between the top and the bottom. But instead, both are happening.

If you're standing still while everyone else is moving ahead, then in reality you're falling behind.

Komey asked about how our winning percentage looked repsective to other Atlantic Hockey teams...well, here's a stat for you: the last time a class at RIT finished in the top half of the cumulative standings was 2013-14, when they just barely squeaked in at 6th out of 12 teams. That record includes the extremely strong 2010-11 team with Favot, Brenner, etc.

Here's the rest of the senior classes of recent past (with the years the class played in () ):
2013-14: 6th out of 12 (2010-14)
2014-15: 8th out of 12 (2011-15)
2015-16: 7th out of 12 (2012-16)
2016-17: 8th out of 12 (2013-17)
2017-18: 6th out of 11 (2014-18)
2018-19: 6th out of 11 (2015-19)

That's mediocrity.

I don't think I have to tell you where the senior classes from 2008 to 2013 finished (covering from 2006 to 2013), but I will anyway. They were either 1st or 2nd (and every time they were 2nd it was to a class that didn't play a full 4 years in the AHA). Even the 2012-13 Senior class finished 2nd, and that was with their senior year being the beginning of the down period (2010-12 was strong enough to keep them in the upper echelon.) And to reiterate and preempt the claim that it was just the great 2009-10 team lifting up that era, you can COMPLETELY take that season out of that groups cumulative record, and they still would have had the best 3 year span in Atlantic Hockey history.
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I hear everyone and there is validity. But what is the answer?
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

To reiterate and be clear, I think we should wait to see what the end of the season brings before anything. I know we need something to talk about between games and all, but there's still such a wide realm where this team could finish, even inside of a 4 year window such as class standings. I pointed out above that this senior class is 6th of 11 Atlantic Hockey teams currently by winning percentage over their careers, but depending on how they finish this season they could realistically finish their careers anywhere from 3rd to 7th. 3 points against Holy Cross this weekend will jump RIT up to even with them in 5th, and obviously a sweep would put them alone in 5th. The junior class currently sits at 5th (albeit only at .500), but could realistically sit anywhere from 4th to 9th heading into their own senior year. It's possible that with a great finish that they could already be turning the corner and beginning to ascent back to the upper reaches of the AHA.

A lot really does rely on how this season ends. Win out and they win the conference and everything is roses again. Go below .500 and they likely will have to play in the first round again, and another 1st round loss would be a flat out disaster. I would be relatively satisfied with making it to Buffalo for the last weekend, I'd also like to see them finish top 4 and host a 2nd round series for the first time since Garbowski's senior year.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

I think the thing that everyone has more concerns about is consistency. There are some good years and some bad years since RIT last won the regular season title. And what I really think is that the way the last 2 years ended has everyone frustrated and looking for answers.

The brass tax is that the years RIT has been good were when the goaltending has been good. Ruby has a great year his senior year and RIT went on to make the NCAAs and beat Minnesota State. The next year, Rotolo and Short played fairly well and the team got hot at the end to make the NCAAs. The goaltending has been mediocre since until this year. The prior years the goaltending was inconsistent.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

I agree with jflory81:

“If you're standing still while everyone else is moving ahead, then in reality you're falling behind.”

If we can agree that the teams in the AHA compete for the same players (yes?), then we can look at what has changed over the last few years.

Being perhaps a victim of their own success, riding on the coat tails of some great seasons and success at the NCAA level, RIT left the Ritter and built the GPC in hopes of continued success and even more talented players coming to RIT.

Other schools, not wanting to be left behind upped their game by marketing their teams and improving their own facilities. Atlantic Hockey helped out by increasing scholarship numbers.

So here we are on 2019. How has tuition changed at RIT in the last ten years? Last I checked it has gone up considerably. A question for all of you, does a highly recruited blue chip hockey player with a solid C+ average receive more grant money at RIT than the solid A+ student that aced his SAT’s? I don’t know that answer, but if another school in AHA can give that student athlete a full athletic scholarship maybe that student athlete opts for a different school? I think Coach Wilson and his staff do a great job with the tools they have been given, but the teams that they compete against have taken a page from the RIT playbook and have upped their games too. So Coach Wilson will need to continue to look for those Diamond in the Rough recruits. If they pan out RIT will see themselves as regular season champs again. If they don’t, well being a .500 Club would be what we could expect.
 
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

WestsideTigersFan said:
We can talk all we want about what scholarships can or can't do, what a conference change would mean, etc. It's great. However, I think if this program is going to succeed it is going to have to do it by making change. Change that some will find painful, distasteful, disrespectful. I think its about time we strongly consider whether or not Coach Wilson is the man to head this program. Period. There. I've gone ahead and put the elephant in the room.
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Great Westside Story is back and trying to bring the drama but as usual your a day late and a dollar short. Elephant already was put in the room after the 4 game losing streak, but many had to tuck their tails between their legs with the nice run the Tigers went on after that. BTW, there is no way Chris Lerch is going to stand for two Elephants in the room, what do you think this is a GOP party? Get that animal out of the room before papa Lerch gets back.

In other news that will just ruin the negative posters of this board a local Rochester kid has announced his verbal commitment to play at RIT. How in the world does that happen, he must not have gotten the memo, WTH!

Looking forward to seeing Blake Humphrey play for his Hometown team!

https://twitter.com/blakehumphrey34/status/1093670536499130368?s=19
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

Tom Naeger said:
.....a local Rochester kid has announced his verbal commitment to play at RIT. How in the world does that happen, he must not have gotten the memo, WTH!

Looking forward to seeing Blake Humphrey play for his Hometown team!

https://twitter.com/blakehumphrey34/status/1093670536499130368?s=19
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That's certainly good news... :)

I'll be at Tate tonight to see if Army can slow down AIC. Army has hit a rough stretch and AIC is flying, someone needs to slow down AIC if any of the other teams hope to catch them.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

Downstate_RIT_Fan said:
I agree with jflory81:

“If you're standing still while everyone else is moving ahead, then in reality you're falling behind.”

If we can agree that the teams in the AHA compete for the same players (yes?), then we can look at what has changed over the last few years.

Being perhaps a victim of their own success, riding on the coat tails of some great seasons and success at the NCAA level, RIT left the Ritter and built the GPC in hopes of continued success and even more talented players coming to RIT.

Other schools, not wanting to be left behind upped their game by marketing their teams and improving their own facilities. Atlantic Hockey helped out by increasing scholarship numbers.

So here we are on 2019. How has tuition changed at RIT in the last ten years? Last I checked it has gone up considerably. A question for all of you, does a highly recruited blue chip hockey player with a solid C+ average receive more grant money at RIT than the solid A+ student that aced his SAT’s? I don’t know that answer, but if another school in AHA can give that student athlete a full athletic scholarship maybe that student athlete opts for a different school? I think Coach Wilson and his staff do a great job with the tools they have been given, but the teams that they compete against have taken a page from the RIT playbook and have upped their games too. So Coach Wilson will need to continue to look for those Diamond in the Rough recruits. If they pan out RIT will see themselves as regular season champs again. If they don’t, well being a .500 Club would be what we could expect.
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I don't think it's just AHA teams competing with RIT for players, it's ECAC. Also, the pool of players looking to play NCAA DI hockey is bigger and better with the growth of USA Hockey and the success of college alumni in the NHL. So even when the players you recruit are better, so are the other team's recruits. Teams like AIC were one of the last to get commitments on the recruiting sites. Now they are more in line with everyone else.

As for the Ritter. While I loved watching games there, it was woefully inadequate. From not being regulation size, to not nearly holding enough people for attendance. RIT typically gets higher attendance than what the Ritter could hold.

If other teams are marketing their teams - they certainly aren't doing it for the fans. Most of the AHA is still near the bottom in attendance.

As fans early on in RIT's existence, many fans pined for the league to get better. Even during the massive realignment, there was talk of a league of the western part of the AHA (minus Air Force) joining with Bowling Green to create a new conference. RIT didn't want to go to that meeting and that probably knocked that idea down a peg.

Finally, I don't think a blue chip C+ hockey player is likely signing with any AHA team. Besides the obvious that the Blue Chipper will go to a better conference, the league does pride itself on academic excellence.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

All good points Komey. The talent has really leveled out and the records of the teams reflect that. It will be an exciting few weeks that’s why I’ll be pulling for Army tonight as well as RIT.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

Good for both the team and local player. I think that is 9 players from the Rochester midget team to commit. People at Rochester Youth Hockey are developing a nice program. Good for them.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

I don't see where anyone is going to have as dominant a run in regular season play as RIT and Air Force did when they first joined. Even Air Force has not been as strong as in years past.

As for this weekend, RIT needs to win the weekend as they are the games in hand against Air Force.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

komey1 said:
I don't see where anyone is going to have as dominant a run in regular season play as RIT and Air Force did when they first joined. Even Air Force has not been as strong as in years past.

As for this weekend, RIT needs to win the weekend as they are the games in hand against Air Force.
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RMU from 13'-17' ?
Pretty solid run.
 
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

komey1 said:
I don't see where anyone is going to have as dominant a run in regular season play as RIT and Air Force did when they first joined. Even Air Force has not been as strong as in years past.

As for this weekend, RIT needs to win the weekend as they are the games in hand against Air Force.
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Air Force has been consistent though. Their senior class has the best winning % of any current senior class by about .060 ahead of Mercyhurst in 2nd (that's about 13 points worth) without winning a single regular season championship over that span. Of course, winning the last two playoff championships and being in thick of it every year is certainly an enviable place to be.

I would also say that if we're considering regular season only, RIT was a class above even Air Force when the two first entered the league - Air Force's 2011-12 senior class was their top class but was only the 4th best four year class in Atlantic Hockey history (.050 behind RIT's first 3 classes).

By the way: here's the google sheets document with each senior classes' records: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nuUlZvPvkIfpUjbgPY7DoHSQ4TiqZ1LSmKS38Ybt2gI/edit?usp=sharing
 
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2018/2019 - Time For The Tigers to Roar <<<

komey1 said:
The 2 years they won the regular season titles. The other 2 years were good, but not nearly dominant.
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No Air Force class has ever won 2 outright regular season championships, so it seems a little ridiculous to hold only winning two against Robert Morris if we're talking regular season success and including early era Air Force as dominant. The 2016-17 Robert Morris senior class was closer to the best Air Force class in regular season success than that Air Force class was to RIT's early classes.

To add to that, no class has won 3 regular season championships outright (Several overlapping RIT classes won 2 and a share of a 3rd).
 
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