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RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

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Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

LtPowers said:
How so? Because of common opponent comparisons? Or just because it would mean too many losses on the record?
Powers &8^]
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strength of schedule, common opponents, and record against top 20 are all potentially impacted.
Also, even though the AHC's OOC record is improved this year, it is still significantly below .500 and only higher than the WCHA (which is quickly becoming recognized as the AHC of the west). Wins against teams in the AHC (all of RIT's wins to this point) won't usually help them enough to get an at-large. Obviously, if they go 25-1 in AHC play while 0-5-1 in OOC play, they would have a chance. But we all know that not many teams in this conference ever win more than 3 or 4 games in a row, so that's not too likely. AHC teams need to separate themselves from the pack of the conference AND win at least a couple games against "Big 4" conference teams (preferably ones with high rankings) to have a shot at a top-15 ranking even if they lose in the AHC tournament. That scenario in and of itself is part of the problem, too. In order for the conference to get the at-large, their best team would have to suffer a loss in the tournament to a team that is potentially not ranked very high at all, which could damage their PWR and possibly knock them out of the top-15. Then of course there is the upset potential in the other 5 conference championships to worry about. Depending who wins the other conference championships, it is possible (however unlikely) that only a top-10 ranking guarantees an NCAA tournament berth.
 
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Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

The biggest influence on the PWR is the league's overall out of conference record. That's because the RPI essentially counts twice. It's one of the criteria, but it's also the tie breaker. The PWR tracks the RPI almost exactly, with a position or two switched because of head-to-head or common opponents.

RIT getting a win or two in these last three OOC games would help itself and the league both.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

komey1 said:
I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.
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Exactly. Those scenarios involved either Robert Morris or Canisius getting in as an at large. RMU finished third, but still didn't have a great enough conference record to augment the impressive OOC record of 4-0-2 to warrant an at-large. Canisius had a fantastic conference record, but the 1-6-1 OOC record put an end to that. Air Force, on the other hand, had a great conference record and 3 OOC wins, earning them a 3 seed in the NCAA's, so likely could have been an at-large if they had not won the AHC tournament (depending to whom they may have lost).
I don't believe I overstated anything. I acknowledge the possibility of at-large bids, but am just clarifying that AHC teams need BOTH a top notch conference record and a decent OOC record in order to have a chance of a top-10 or top-15 finish. AHC games alone just don't get them enough credit in the PWR to get them in unless they win an overwhelming majority of them.
If RIT goes 0-5-1 in OOC, they are going to be hard pressed to get enough conference wins to earn a top-15 ranking. 3-2-1, on the other hand... then we're talking.
 
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Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

TigerFan86-87 said:
Exactly. Those scenarios involved either Robert Morris or Canisius getting in as an at large. RMU finished third, but still didn't have a great enough conference record to augment the impressive OOC record of 4-0-2 to warrant an at-large. Canisius had a fantastic conference record, but the 1-6-1 OOC record put an end to that. Air Force, on the other hand, had a great conference record and 3 OOC wins, earning them a 3 seed in the NCAA's, so likely could have been an at-large if they had not won the AHC tournament (depending to whom they may have lost).
I don't believe I overstated anything. I acknowledge the possibility of at-large bids, but am just clarifying that AHC teams need BOTH a top notch conference record and a decent OOC record in order to have a chance of a top-10 or top-15 finish. AHC games alone just don't get them enough credit in the PWR to get them in unless they win an overwhelming majority of them.
If RIT goes 0-5-1 in OOC, they are going to be hard pressed to get enough conference wins to earn a top-15 ranking. 3-2-1, on the other hand... then we're talking.
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Air Force could have gotten in last season even with a loss to Robert Morris in the championship, but there were some other combinations that also had to happen.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

komey1 said:
I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.
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The point is, it was close ... on the wrong side of the fence. And when it comes to playoff selections, close means bubkas.

And an 0-5-1 OOC record won't even get you close.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?
 
turk181 said:
Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?
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Hi Turk, I actually met you at the HFH before a game, might of been last year when RIT visited. Anyway, in my opinion I’d say no but others might feel different. I look at the two schools being more like siblings than rivals as they compete for the same type of student. I think watching the two bands meld together at RIT kind of shows that. Smart nerdy kids for the most part at both schools. I do think that RIT’s co-op program is a big draw for many students and I wonder if it had anything to do with RPI starting this ARCH program to get more of their students out in the industry before graduation. Anyway that’s my opinion, I’m sure other fans here have other experiences.
 
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Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Caleb Cameron with a hat trick this evening for the Macon Mayhem. Team lost though 6-5 in OT.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Downstate_RIT_Fan said:
Hi Turk, I actually met you at the HFH before a game, might of been last year when RIT visited. Anyway, in my opinion I’d say no but others might feel different. I look at the two schools being more like siblings than rivals as they compete for the same type of student. I think watching the two bands meld together at RIT kind of shows that. Smart nerdy kids for the most part at both schools. I do think that RIT’s co-op program is a big draw for many students and I wonder if it had anything to do with RPI starting this ARCH program to get more of their students out in the industry before graduation. Anyway that’s my opinion, I’m sure other fans here have other experiences.
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I remember talking with you Downstate. Thanks for the input.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

turk181 said:
Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?
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I do not recall hearing RIT being referred to as "RPI" too often. The more-common error is made by less-knowledgeable broadcasters/journalists referring to R.I.T. as "rit" (same pronunciation as writ). This error occurs frequently, as recent as a week ago when "espin" featured Mallory Rushton's OT/Penalty Shot winner over BU (yes, B.U. ... as opposed to "Boo" :) ) in a top-10 highlight segment. RPI is fortunate in that regard... I do not ever recall hearing RPI being referred to as "rippy", "erpy", "arpy", or any other 'lazy acronym' by a broadcaster.

Pretty cool that RIT is getting the additional exposure though! :cool: :D

Cheers!!!
~TTF
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

turk181 said:
Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?
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No, but have had western fans see RIT on my hat / jersey and reference Albany in some way. To be fair, this was back in our D-III days. How do you follow college hockey and not have at least heard of RPI enough to spell it correctly?
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

LtPowers said:
But what is it that makes five OOC losses worth more than five conference losses?
Powers &8^]
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- More likely to be top-20.
- More common opponents with non AHC teams battling for the top-15 rankings.
- Usually better SOS and opponents' SOS (depending whom you put on your OOC schedule, of course).
- Big-4 conferences have better (in some cases much better) overall OOC records.

AHC usually occupies at least 5 to 6 of the last 10 to 15 places in the PWR for a reason.

Granted, all of these differences are not as large as they used to be between AHC/ WCHA and the Big-4, but for the most part they still exist. Baby steps. AHC may get there some day, but not yet.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

TigerFan86-87 said:
- More likely to be top-20.
- More common opponents with non AHC teams battling for the top-15 rankings.
- Usually better SOS and opponents' SOS (depending whom you put on your OOC schedule, of course).
- Big-4 conferences have better (in some cases much better) overall OOC records.
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Okay, the first two make sense, but the second two are only affected by who's on your schedule, not what your result is against any given team. In fact, losing to those teams helps their SOS.


Powers &8^]
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

LtPowers said:
But what is it that makes five OOC losses worth more than five conference losses?
Powers &8^]
Click to expand...

Think of it this way:

- Lose five conference games and when it comes time to compare in PWR against your conference-mates those are just a sub-sample of twenty-some games when doing PWR against conference-mates.

- Lose five non-conf games (say one against each conference, so you're 0-1 against that conference) when it comes common-opponents time in PWR you lost to a team from say the WCHA and any team in the WCHA that has a better record against that same team wins that PWR category against you.

Yes, not scientific, more of a thought exercise, but that's how it effectively plays out.
 
Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Think of the "opponent's opponents" segment of the RPI. If RIT loses to Air Force, Air Force is an "opponent's opponent" to every other conference team on our schedule. A loss to them actually helps RIT's "opponent's opponents" portion of the RPI because all of our other conference brethren also play Air Force who now has a slightly stronger record. If RIT plays just 1 team from another conference (additionally say that no one else from our conference plays that team) and loses, then the win for that team does not affect our "opponent's opponents" segment of the RPI at all because we don't play anyone else that played against that team.

Sorry if this isn't very clear. I'm having trouble getting the wording correct for clarity's sake here. Another way to look at it is that the overall conference record of all in-conference games is going to always be .500. The only way to improve the overall conference record (a big component of both opponent's record and opponent's opponents record) is for the teams in the conference to win non-conference games.

The Sicatoka said:
Think of it this way:

- Lose five conference games and when it comes time to compare in PWR against your conference-mates those are just a sub-sample of twenty-some games when doing PWR against conference-mates.

- Lose five non-conf games (say one against each conference, so you're 0-1 against that conference) when it comes common-opponents time in PWR you lost to a team from say the WCHA and any team in the WCHA that has a better record against that same team wins that PWR category against you.

Yes, not scientific, more of a thought exercise, but that's how it effectively plays out.
Click to expand...

Common opponents actually never comes into play unless you have a head to head meeting against a team as well. The only way to lose a pairwise comparison to a team that has a worse RPI than you is to both lose a head to head game AND lose the common opponents tiebreaker.

Look at the current pairwise: it literally tracks 1-61 in RPI rank. As (I think) Ed said earlier, RPI is by far the most important component of the pairwise. Get a top 10-15 RPI, and you will be in the discussion.
 
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