Downstate_RIT_Fan
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Maybe they will catch some lightning in a bottle heading into the playoffs. Regardless of how they are playing I'm not sure any team in Atlantic hockey would want to play RIT in the playoffs.
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>>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
- Thread starter LtPowers
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Maybe they will catch some lightning in a bottle heading into the playoffs. Regardless of how they are playing I'm not sure any team in Atlantic hockey would want to play RIT in the playoffs.
Normally I would agree but these past two years we've gotten hot at the right time for a good tourney run. This year we're more limping in than anything else.
That lack of a week off isn't going to help either, especially if we don't end up drawing Niagara (which is pretty unlikely at this point, 18% chance according to playoffstatus.com). People need to heal up some, which is less easy when you have games on calendar.
TigerFan86-87
R!!!!...I!!!!!...T!!!!!!
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
On top of that, AFA is #15 in the PWR. They need to keep winning as much as possible to try and grab an at-large NCAA berth, just in case they are upset in the AHC tournament.
Tom Naeger
"Happy Talk" Ends Here...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
We would all like to hope for a team that was picked to at least compete for the regular season title, actually the favor to win it, would get on track and do something in the playoffs. But an objective look at their whole season and an honest person would have to consider that a long shot. I've never seen a team at RIT with high expectations like this one stumble so badly. This team out of the gate looked like a juggernaut. In a rematch of last years AHA Title game, RMU looked unable to stay with the Tigers for 90 minutes of play and then dumb penalty after dumb penalty produced one of the most embarrassing and frustrating losses in Program history. I remember thinking okay early season miss step, team maybe reading too many headlines, good wake up call.
But that wake up call didn't seem to get through to the guys. They played alright against UCONN at brickcity, but then looked not so great in two ECAC games in Albany.
A bounce back sweep at Bentley, ok we are back, but that went away with being sweept two weekends in a row at the hands of Canisius and Air Force.
The Tigers would run off 5 straight conference wins after that, but yet still seemed very sloppy at times. Then the injury bug happen and this team just didn't seem to be mentally tough enough to deal with it. They failed all most every test of adversary this season. If this was an up and coming team, yeah you could call it a nice effort against Air Force, but this was suppose to be a team that could hang a banner or two. Yes we have a lot of freshmen in the line up, so maybe that does bold well for the future.
The AHA has risen up the last 4 or 5 seasons, thanks to RIT's success going to the Frozen Four and thanks to other teams like Air Force and Niagara making noise on the national stage. RIT has had a mixed bag of success from that uptick in the AHA. One even has to wonder if two hot playoff runs did not cloaking a concerning down trend in the program.
These are all Regular season numbers only.
This year's Senior class came in as the team was coming off a sudden drop off of a 11-12-4 conference record. The team fall a little lower during their freshman year with 10-14-3 record. MGM line help get the program back to a respectable 14-9-5 record, which they duplicated the following season. This year's strange tie-less season sees them at 12-15-0 with one game left.
So in Regular season AHA games only, this senior class is 50-47-13, with of course 1 game to play. That's only a 0.4545 winning percentage and averaging about 28 points a season. Thrown in the year before this class came in your looking at 61-59-17, 0.445% and average of just under 28 points the last 5 seasons. This from a program that used to be post 20 win seasons. Yes the AHA has gotten much better, but this drop off is alarming.
Look I am not trying to be all doom and gloom nor blast the team. But I think one thing is becoming clear. If RIT wants to be like the same power house they where in D3 then the new arena alone isn't going to do it. Conference they play in and especially no scholarships is hampering the program and a disturbing trend of other teams in the AHA getting much better and RIT staying the same. I think this is going to be the single biggest issue/hope I have for the new leadership coming into next year at RIT. While I appreciate the old leadership vocal support in begging people to donate money for the new arena, and okay job they did in building the arena, I think there is a lot harder work ahead in the administrative ranks to bring this program to the level we all hope it can go to...
One last thought, how big now is the loss of Mark Goldberg? They were able to deal with it last year, but this year it would have been mighty nice to have him...
We would all like to hope for a team that was picked to at least compete for the regular season title, actually the favor to win it, would get on track and do something in the playoffs. But an objective look at their whole season and an honest person would have to consider that a long shot. I've never seen a team at RIT with high expectations like this one stumble so badly. This team out of the gate looked like a juggernaut. In a rematch of last years AHA Title game, RMU looked unable to stay with the Tigers for 90 minutes of play and then dumb penalty after dumb penalty produced one of the most embarrassing and frustrating losses in Program history. I remember thinking okay early season miss step, team maybe reading too many headlines, good wake up call.
But that wake up call didn't seem to get through to the guys. They played alright against UCONN at brickcity, but then looked not so great in two ECAC games in Albany.
A bounce back sweep at Bentley, ok we are back, but that went away with being sweept two weekends in a row at the hands of Canisius and Air Force.
The Tigers would run off 5 straight conference wins after that, but yet still seemed very sloppy at times. Then the injury bug happen and this team just didn't seem to be mentally tough enough to deal with it. They failed all most every test of adversary this season. If this was an up and coming team, yeah you could call it a nice effort against Air Force, but this was suppose to be a team that could hang a banner or two. Yes we have a lot of freshmen in the line up, so maybe that does bold well for the future.
The AHA has risen up the last 4 or 5 seasons, thanks to RIT's success going to the Frozen Four and thanks to other teams like Air Force and Niagara making noise on the national stage. RIT has had a mixed bag of success from that uptick in the AHA. One even has to wonder if two hot playoff runs did not cloaking a concerning down trend in the program.
These are all Regular season numbers only.
This year's Senior class came in as the team was coming off a sudden drop off of a 11-12-4 conference record. The team fall a little lower during their freshman year with 10-14-3 record. MGM line help get the program back to a respectable 14-9-5 record, which they duplicated the following season. This year's strange tie-less season sees them at 12-15-0 with one game left.
So in Regular season AHA games only, this senior class is 50-47-13, with of course 1 game to play. That's only a 0.4545 winning percentage and averaging about 28 points a season. Thrown in the year before this class came in your looking at 61-59-17, 0.445% and average of just under 28 points the last 5 seasons. This from a program that used to be post 20 win seasons. Yes the AHA has gotten much better, but this drop off is alarming.
Look I am not trying to be all doom and gloom nor blast the team. But I think one thing is becoming clear. If RIT wants to be like the same power house they where in D3 then the new arena alone isn't going to do it. Conference they play in and especially no scholarships is hampering the program and a disturbing trend of other teams in the AHA getting much better and RIT staying the same. I think this is going to be the single biggest issue/hope I have for the new leadership coming into next year at RIT. While I appreciate the old leadership vocal support in begging people to donate money for the new arena, and okay job they did in building the arena, I think there is a lot harder work ahead in the administrative ranks to bring this program to the level we all hope it can go to...
One last thought, how big now is the loss of Mark Goldberg? They were able to deal with it last year, but this year it would have been mighty nice to have him...
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
I don't see the scholarship situation changing any time soon without the athletic department being moved to all D1 (which I don't think will happen nor is a good idea anyway). I really do think the AHC will continue to slowly strangle RIT because they simply aren't compatible. Moving to the ECAC is our only salvation.
I don't see the scholarship situation changing any time soon without the athletic department being moved to all D1 (which I don't think will happen nor is a good idea anyway). I really do think the AHC will continue to slowly strangle RIT because they simply aren't compatible. Moving to the ECAC is our only salvation.
Tom Naeger
"Happy Talk" Ends Here...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
Agreed and that is something that needs to be address at the highest levels at RIT.
Agreed and that is something that needs to be address at the highest levels at RIT.
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
While the league is demonstrably gaining more parity with the advancement from 12 scholarships to 14 scholarships a few years back, the jump in compete level from adding to a maximum of 18 scholarships will likely not be felt for another 4 to 6 years into the future. Many colleges in the AHA simply do not have the available funding to add a full complement of scholarships at one time, instead opting for potentially 1 additional scholarship per season over the next 4 to 5 years.
RIT is one of the best hockey programs in AHA at the moment, very large student population, extremely knowledgeable coaching staff and a phenomenal hockey facility on campus to market themselves. Not saying scholarship totals might not change that competitive landscape over time but RIT has a very solid foundation and has been quite impressive to date. The next 4 to 6 years will be interesting for AHA, from little brother to little brother coming of age.
While the league is demonstrably gaining more parity with the advancement from 12 scholarships to 14 scholarships a few years back, the jump in compete level from adding to a maximum of 18 scholarships will likely not be felt for another 4 to 6 years into the future. Many colleges in the AHA simply do not have the available funding to add a full complement of scholarships at one time, instead opting for potentially 1 additional scholarship per season over the next 4 to 5 years.
RIT is one of the best hockey programs in AHA at the moment, very large student population, extremely knowledgeable coaching staff and a phenomenal hockey facility on campus to market themselves. Not saying scholarship totals might not change that competitive landscape over time but RIT has a very solid foundation and has been quite impressive to date. The next 4 to 6 years will be interesting for AHA, from little brother to little brother coming of age.
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Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
I think it's an easy trap to fall into, and one that we all have succumbed to at one point including the coaches and players, to think that just because we have the nicest toys we have the best team. It's what happens on the ice that counts in the end.
I think it's an easy trap to fall into, and one that we all have succumbed to at one point including the coaches and players, to think that just because we have the nicest toys we have the best team. It's what happens on the ice that counts in the end.
Scott Biggar
Member
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
Just to correct Tommy's math (ties count as half win/half loss):
50-47-13 = .513% winning percentage, not .4545%
61-59-17 = .507% winning percentage, not .445%
Also, in the glass-half-full category, I think that last three recruiting classes have been very strong. There have been some real gems in each class.
It is interesting how those three classes match with the three seasons that the GPC has been open. Give credit where credit is due.
Just to correct Tommy's math (ties count as half win/half loss):
50-47-13 = .513% winning percentage, not .4545%
61-59-17 = .507% winning percentage, not .445%
Also, in the glass-half-full category, I think that last three recruiting classes have been very strong. There have been some real gems in each class.
It is interesting how those three classes match with the three seasons that the GPC has been open. Give credit where credit is due.
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
So the problem is that RIT isn't keeping up with an improving conference, and you think the solution is to move to an even tougher conference?
I think it's disingenuous to say RIT has "stayed the same", though. The team is, overall, bigger, stronger, and more talented than in the past. But I think they're missing a bit of the scrappiness, chemistry, and heart that previous teams had.
Powers &8^]
So the problem is that RIT isn't keeping up with an improving conference, and you think the solution is to move to an even tougher conference?
I think it's disingenuous to say RIT has "stayed the same", though. The team is, overall, bigger, stronger, and more talented than in the past. But I think they're missing a bit of the scrappiness, chemistry, and heart that previous teams had.
Powers &8^]
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
This is true. I've never been big on the current senior class. They're good but not great. Cameron, Smith, and Skirving can score but they never stepped up to lead the team. McMullen and Holland have been reliable but not game-changers. I admire Perron-Fontaine's flexibility and persistence but he's also rarely been a difference maker. And we all know what Rotolo's pros and cons are. It's not a bad class, just not a great one.
Let's face it, though -- if Skirving, Valenzuela, and the Norrishes were healthy, we're probably sitting in a bye slot right now. (Heck, if we just didn't blow a 5-0 lead against Robert Morris, we'd be one point behind them for fourth place.)
Powers &8^]
This is true. I've never been big on the current senior class. They're good but not great. Cameron, Smith, and Skirving can score but they never stepped up to lead the team. McMullen and Holland have been reliable but not game-changers. I admire Perron-Fontaine's flexibility and persistence but he's also rarely been a difference maker. And we all know what Rotolo's pros and cons are. It's not a bad class, just not a great one.
Let's face it, though -- if Skirving, Valenzuela, and the Norrishes were healthy, we're probably sitting in a bye slot right now. (Heck, if we just didn't blow a 5-0 lead against Robert Morris, we'd be one point behind them for fourth place.)
Powers &8^]
Tom Naeger
"Happy Talk" Ends Here...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
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How moving from the AHA (was the MAAC at the time) work for Quinnipiac? Look at UCONN. Changing conferences clearly brought in a higher sought recurt. Unless they had a first round draft pick and one of the better player on the World Juniors team I the past I forgot about...
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Tom Naeger
"Happy Talk" Ends Here...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
I do agree with you that there been some real gems in the last 3 classes and I think some people are selling Cameron short this year. As I said not trying to be doom and gloom but there is a bit of a disturbing pattern here. However, it could just be an off throw away year. A great year next year could change things a lot. And never know maybe we will be surprised by this team yet.
I am not try to be half empty or full just face reality. And it just is frustrating when you feel at times that there are those behind the scenes drinking the Kool-aid when you got kids and coaches working there tails off to be something.
I did not know that about winning percentage so thanks for the correction.
I do agree with you that there been some real gems in the last 3 classes and I think some people are selling Cameron short this year. As I said not trying to be doom and gloom but there is a bit of a disturbing pattern here. However, it could just be an off throw away year. A great year next year could change things a lot. And never know maybe we will be surprised by this team yet.
I am not try to be half empty or full just face reality. And it just is frustrating when you feel at times that there are those behind the scenes drinking the Kool-aid when you got kids and coaches working there tails off to be something.
TigerFan86-87
R!!!!...I!!!!!...T!!!!!!
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
One other perspective on this team is that the unbalanced schedule certainly didn't work in their favor this year. Three of the four teams the Tigers had to play 4 times were #1 Canisius (0-4), #2 Air Force (0-4), and #4 RMU (2-2). That's 8 losses to the two best teams and 10 to the top four (2-0 vs Army) teams in the conference. Not the best luck of the draw on that one. They're 12-7 against the #3 through #11 teams. Really not all that bad, overall. I firmly believe that if they were at least close to full strength in the second half of the season, they would not have been swept again by CC and AFA. They've always (until this season) had that habit of getting better as the season progressed, and those initial sweeps to CC and AFA were all very close games (3 by 1 goal and one by 2 with an ENG included). A healthy team finishes in the top four, easily. Top two would have been unlikely, but a bye wouldn't have been much of a question.
I'd place the '04-'05 team ahead of this one. After the series at St. Norbert's early that season, it was thought that this team was going to battle for the National Championship. As we all so painfully remember, from the moment of the D-I announcement onwards, the team spiraled out of control until the completely unforgettable and inexcusable collapse at home against Elmira (the ECAC-W loss was just icing on the cake - quite forgettable). Although I am usually reluctant to use injuries as an excuse, the facts are that that team did not have anywhere near the injury problems as this '16-'17 Tigers team has. They just fell apart all on their own.
One other perspective on this team is that the unbalanced schedule certainly didn't work in their favor this year. Three of the four teams the Tigers had to play 4 times were #1 Canisius (0-4), #2 Air Force (0-4), and #4 RMU (2-2). That's 8 losses to the two best teams and 10 to the top four (2-0 vs Army) teams in the conference. Not the best luck of the draw on that one. They're 12-7 against the #3 through #11 teams. Really not all that bad, overall. I firmly believe that if they were at least close to full strength in the second half of the season, they would not have been swept again by CC and AFA. They've always (until this season) had that habit of getting better as the season progressed, and those initial sweeps to CC and AFA were all very close games (3 by 1 goal and one by 2 with an ENG included). A healthy team finishes in the top four, easily. Top two would have been unlikely, but a bye wouldn't have been much of a question.
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
RIT associate head coach Brian Hills is going to be on the air live at about 4:15 p.m. here: http://theteam.fm/
RIT associate head coach Brian Hills is going to be on the air live at about 4:15 p.m. here: http://theteam.fm/
Downstate_RIT_Fan
New member
Thanks for the heads up Ed. Just listened to Brian and bookmarked to listen to future interviews.
StimulisRK
New member
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
As far as the 0 ties goes, I went back and looked - it's only happened 3 times in the history of the AHA.
Bentley 06/07
Sacred Heart & Army 13/14
Good team this year, not "great" per se as in years past - but I think just plain bad luck really hurt us with injuries and points from ties.
As far as the 0 ties goes, I went back and looked - it's only happened 3 times in the history of the AHA.
Bentley 06/07
Sacred Heart & Army 13/14
Good team this year, not "great" per se as in years past - but I think just plain bad luck really hurt us with injuries and points from ties.
unscarred76
New member
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
Again honestly, I dont think people truly realize how crucial the Norrish twins are. They are possibly the best two offensive defense players RIT has ever had (yes Tanev I know) and their physical play for neither guy being particularly what you would call big is unparalleled. RIT misses their speed badly on defense - I have watched forwards blow by our freshmen defense time and time again the last 10 games. With having one of them out there almost every shift, it makes an enormous difference on both defense AND offense alike. Unfortunately their level of physical play combined with having as much speed as anyone in D 1 gives high injury risk. I hope they get healthy and can have a full senior season. Nevertheless, the Tigers have had opportunities to win where they have played poorly. Undisciplined penalties cost them some wins for sure. The second period in last Friday's game against Air Force was the best I have seen them play all year - they had them completely on their heels and playing frantic scared hockey for a bit. So, I know this team is still capable of more. Look forward to them playing home in first round hopefully and then going to Canisius (and not Air Force!) to get another crack at them and their wall of a goaltender.
Again honestly, I dont think people truly realize how crucial the Norrish twins are. They are possibly the best two offensive defense players RIT has ever had (yes Tanev I know) and their physical play for neither guy being particularly what you would call big is unparalleled. RIT misses their speed badly on defense - I have watched forwards blow by our freshmen defense time and time again the last 10 games. With having one of them out there almost every shift, it makes an enormous difference on both defense AND offense alike. Unfortunately their level of physical play combined with having as much speed as anyone in D 1 gives high injury risk. I hope they get healthy and can have a full senior season. Nevertheless, the Tigers have had opportunities to win where they have played poorly. Undisciplined penalties cost them some wins for sure. The second period in last Friday's game against Air Force was the best I have seen them play all year - they had them completely on their heels and playing frantic scared hockey for a bit. So, I know this team is still capable of more. Look forward to them playing home in first round hopefully and then going to Canisius (and not Air Force!) to get another crack at them and their wall of a goaltender.
Tom Naeger
"Happy Talk" Ends Here...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
You know in that interview was part of what makes me so frustrated when Hills was ask about how they have to recruit at a disadvantage. We certainly have seen some great players in the last few years, but when I stop and compare a Tyler Brenner, Cameron Burt, Simon Lambert, Dan Ringwald and Chris Tanev to a Matt Garbosky, Myles Powell, Erik Brown, and the Norris Twins I don't see a big increase. Not saying they are not great players, I love the guys. Now as Wayne Wilson said the bar has been set high so it's tough, but it's even tougher given the lay of the land he and his coaches have to play by. They work their ***** off and have done an unbelievable job to get this far. I'd like to see an administration step up and help them really take this program to the next level...
You know in that interview was part of what makes me so frustrated when Hills was ask about how they have to recruit at a disadvantage. We certainly have seen some great players in the last few years, but when I stop and compare a Tyler Brenner, Cameron Burt, Simon Lambert, Dan Ringwald and Chris Tanev to a Matt Garbosky, Myles Powell, Erik Brown, and the Norris Twins I don't see a big increase. Not saying they are not great players, I love the guys. Now as Wayne Wilson said the bar has been set high so it's tough, but it's even tougher given the lay of the land he and his coaches have to play by. They work their ***** off and have done an unbelievable job to get this far. I'd like to see an administration step up and help them really take this program to the next level...
Re: >>> RIT Tigers 2016-17: That was fun; let's go for three!
In your mind what more can the administration do?
In your mind what more can the administration do?
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