>>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

ECACHL would be great (assuming RIT keeps growing the program - need to be better to compete there). It would be kind of a shame if it were to happen because RPI is leaving. That's one team I would have especially liked to see be a regular conference opponent for the Tigers (if this move were to actually happen). Not that they couldn't schedule a semi-regular NC thing with them, but being in conference is better for making rivals.
As much as we still must take the ND/RPI to HE "news" with a grain of salt, we also must remember any move by RIT is totally speculation so far as well. Last I heard, no one has reported anything from or about RIT going anywhere from any official source, just that they've expressed their complete disinterest in moving to any form of the CCHA. And if anyone on here has heard anything, they're really good at keeping a secret.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some "behind-the-scenes" / "Just-In-Case" / "What-If" inqueries going on. Remember, the DIII to DI move popped up only about a week before the news conference. Looking back at the quality of that last DIII recruiting class, and Guimonds coming, not coming, then coming just in time to sit out the last DIII year, you can't convince me the move was put together in a matter of weeks or even months.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

If RPI leaves, it makes the ECAC less appealing to RIT, as that's one less Liberty League member. (For that matter, I'm not sure why RPI would want to leave its LL conference mates to go play with a bunch of D-I state schools.) And would RIT really be the ECAC's first choice for a replacement? Why not Niagara, who's tried to get in before?


Powers &8^]

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

If RPI leaves, it makes the ECAC less appealing to RIT, as that's one less Liberty League member. (For that matter, I'm not sure why RPI would want to leave its LL conference mates to go play with a bunch of D-I state schools.) And would RIT really be the ECAC's first choice for a replacement? Why not Niagara, who's tried to get in before?

Will try to answer these.

First, it's not like RIT is some long-standing member of the Liberty League, so this shouldn't be too much of a concern - plus, there are three others that would still be around.

Second, it's not an easy decision to make for RPI but it's one that would probably, at the very least, get the program some more attention than it can get in the ECAC.

Third, when it comes to the ECAC the academic profile is a big deal for the members, and RIT's academic profile is higher than that of Niagara, that's for sure. It's a relatively compact league for its size, too, so geographic footprint is a little more important, and the only really possible entrant that would be better than RIT on that mark would be Holy Cross.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Will try to answer these.

First, it's not like RIT is some long-standing member of the Liberty League, so this shouldn't be too much of a concern - plus, there are three others that would still be around.

Second, it's not an easy decision to make for RPI but it's one that would probably, at the very least, get the program some more attention than it can get in the ECAC.

Third, when it comes to the ECAC the academic profile is a big deal for the members, and RIT's academic profile is higher than that of Niagara, that's for sure. It's a relatively compact league for its size, too, so geographic footprint is a little more important, and the only really possible entrant that would be better than RIT on that mark would be Holy Cross.

RIT has also had the opportunity to join the ECAC in prior years. First was when D-II was dissolved the first time at the end of the 1983 season. RIT had the opportunity then to go to D-I and join the ECAC. The second opportunity was at the end of that decade when Union instead made the move.

Red Cloud is on the money on all three points. The Liberty League is nice, but RIT president Bill Destler is on the record about his desire to move all RIT sports to D-I. The Liberty League is a good place for RIT to be until it happens or if it never happens. Secondly, D-I hockey in Hockey East is a much higher profile place for RPI to be and gives the school excellent exposure in larger TV markets. And the academic profile is key for certain.

Liberty League is an excellent D-III league. But it's not on the radar compared to D-I hockey or D-I in general as far as national attention. Can you name the D-II and D-III leagues the other D-I hockey schools who are not all D-I are in? Does anyone much care that CC participates in the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference in basketball, or Duluth in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference in football, or Merrimack in the Northeast-10 in lacrosse?

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

It wouldn't surprise me if there are some "behind-the-scenes" / "Just-In-Case" / "What-If" inqueries going on.

Agreed. My point was just that until someone official makes a statement about RIT's intentions, everything we say on here is pure speculation. I'm sure there are discussions going on. It would be stupid not to have them based on the chaos looming in college hockey right now. It's just that we don't yet know what (or who) is involved in the discussions at this point.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

What if ND goes to HEA and RPI is invited but says "No"?
Then what?
Does HEA go after Qinnipiac or some other Eastern school (I'm going to leave UConn out of this)? If that happens, then Holy Cross is even more of a better fit geographically to fit in ECACHL. Have they actually expressed any interest in moving, or is the talk of them going as much speculation as the talk of RIT potentially moving?

 

[burgie12]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

What if ND goes to HEA and RPI is invited but says "No"?
Then what?
Does HEA go after Qinnipiac or some other Eastern school (I'm going to leave UConn out of this)? If that happens, then Holy Cross is even more of a better fit geographically to fit in ECACHL. Have they actually expressed any interest in moving, or is the talk of them going as much speculation as the talk of RIT potentially moving?

I'd refer you to the current RPI thread (and one of the off-season threads where the topic was first brought up), but I don't want to expose you to the blatant trolling of Hokydad.

Our AD (Col. Knowlton) and coach (Appert) are paying excellent lip service to the ECAC currently and saying that they are happy where they are now. However, my opinion (and it's one that is also held by other posters) is that the same behind-the-scenes conversations are going on, even internally, because Knowlton and Appert are in support of a move to the HEA if RPI is tapped, but the school administration has not been in support of the move in previous years.

If RPI is not tapped (or says no), HEA has indicated that they would much prefer a 12th team. My opinion is that Q's new rink (despite being undersized) indicates significant commitment by the school and would point to them being a good choice. I also agree with you that UConn is not even in the conversation.

And, as a point of who replaces Q if they decide to jump, I would still lay money on RIT. Adding RIT does not stretch the conference's footprint much, and Princeton does not have a convenient travel partner, so it would be a slight pain to have RIT / Cornell and Colgate / Princeton, but it'd be just as much of a pain to have Cornell / Colgate and Princeton / Holy Cross.

Again, just one person's opinions and musings. I certainly don't have the inside scoop on any of this, but I like to think that I can think at least semi-critically.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

I'd refer you to the current RPI thread (and one of the off-season threads where the topic was first brought up), but I don't want to expose you to the blatant trolling of Hokydad.

Our AD (Col. Knowlton) and coach (Appert) are paying excellent lip service to the ECAC currently and saying that they are happy where they are now. However, my opinion (and it's one that is also held by other posters) is that the same behind-the-scenes conversations are going on, even internally, because Knowlton and Appert are in support of a move to the HEA if RPI is tapped, but the school administration has not been in support of the move in previous years.

If RPI is not tapped (or says no), HEA has indicated that they would much prefer a 12th team. My opinion is that Q's new rink (despite being undersized) indicates significant commitment by the school and would point to them being a good choice. I also agree with you that UConn is not even in the conversation.

And, as a point of who replaces Q if they decide to jump, I would still lay money on RIT. Adding RIT does not stretch the conference's footprint much, and Princeton does not have a convenient travel partner, so it would be a slight pain to have RIT / Cornell and Colgate / Princeton, but it'd be just as much of a pain to have Cornell / Colgate and Princeton / Holy Cross.

Again, just one person's opinions and musings. I certainly don't have the inside scoop on any of this, but I like to think that I can think at least semi-critically.

IIRC, and certainly I may not, HC wasn't chosen when UVM left because they were not willing to move their women's program to the ECAC. I don't know how that would play if either RPI or QU were to go to the HEA at this time. Since UND doesn't even have a women's team, HEA may noit be looking to also expand that league.

 

[burgie12]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

IIRC, and certainly I may not, HC wasn't chosen when UVM left because they were not willing to move their women's program to the ECAC. I don't know how that would play if either RPI or QU were to go to the HEA at this time. Since UND doesn't even have a women's team, HEA may noit be looking to also expand that league.

You're right. I forgot about the fact that all twelve teams in the ECAC also have women's teams in the ECAC. RIT, with its women's team moving up soon (the ban was repealed, right? why haven't I heard anything about them joining D-I?), would seem to continue to fit that description (Disclaimer: assuming that the RPI / Q women moved over to HEA, too, etc.).

I don't see a whole lot against RIT joining the ECAC. Of course, I'm biased because I grew up in Spencerport, follow RIT closely, and support the Tigers as my second team.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

(the ban was repealed, right? why haven't I heard anything about them joining D-I?)

I've been trying to figure that out, but my thread on the women's forum was largely (not entirely) ignored. I expected some sort of news, one way or another, but there's been nothing (even with all of the coverage D-I women have been getting on the front page of USCHO the last couple of weeks).


Powers &8^]

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

The Liberty League is nice, but RIT president Bill Destler is on the record about his desire to move all RIT sports to D-I.

Is he? Not to doubt you, Ed, but it seems like if he wanted to move up, there's nothing stopping him.


Powers &8^]

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

And, as a point of who replaces Q if they decide to jump, I would still lay money on RIT. Adding RIT does not stretch the conference's footprint much, and Princeton does not have a convenient travel partner, so it would be a slight pain to have RIT / Cornell and Colgate / Princeton, but it'd be just as much of a pain to have Cornell / Colgate and Princeton / Holy Cross.

If it were Holy Cross, they'd probably go back to Yale/Princeton, and make it either Dartmouth/Holy Cross or Brown/Holy Cross.

With RIT and the Q moving, that would indeed get complicated. In a situation like that you could see RPI and Union split, with Union getting Colgate and RPI getting Dartmouth. Harvard would get Brown, Yale would get Princeton. My guess, anyway.

Regardless, if RIT joins the league, they'd almost certainly be paired with Cornell.

 

[burgie12]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

If it were Holy Cross, they'd probably go back to Yale/Princeton, and make it either Dartmouth/Holy Cross or Brown/Holy Cross.

I'm not sure how I feel about Dartmouth / Holy Cross, Harvard / Brown. But, yes, Yale / Princeton makes quite a bit of sense (especially over Holy Cross / Princeton).

With RIT and the Q moving, that would indeed get complicated. In a situation like that you could see RPI and Union split, with Union getting Colgate and RPI getting Dartmouth. Harvard would get Brown, Yale would get Princeton. My guess, anyway.

Yeesh. At least everything's still within busing distance, but that's just not pleasant.

Thank you, RC, for providing some insight that involves more than three years of following college hockey.

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Is he? Not to doubt you, Ed, but it seems like if he wanted to move up, there's nothing stopping him.


Powers &8^]

There is a matter of money.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

I'm not sure how I feel about Dartmouth / Holy Cross, Harvard / Brown. But, yes, Yale / Princeton makes quite a bit of sense (especially over Holy Cross / Princeton).

Thank you, RC, for providing some insight that involves more than three years of following college hockey.

Well, there is the little matter that Harvard/Brown, Yale/Princeton was the actual pairing while Vermont was in the league after Union joined. Vermont was once paired with RPI.

I trust that RIT's inclusion would work out OK, especially if it's RPI that would get moved.

 

[burgie12]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Well, there is the little matter that Harvard/Brown, Yale/Princeton was the actual pairing while Vermont was in the league after Union joined. Vermont was once paired with RPI.

I trust that RIT's inclusion would work out OK, especially if it's RPI that would get moved.

Like I said, you have more than three years experience.

I mean, I knew that RPI-UVM were travel partners, but it never dawned on me that other teams had different travel partners before Qpac joined and I never investigated it.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

There is a matter of money.

And a matter of getting a huge ton of paperwork approved.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Is he? Not to doubt you, Ed, but it seems like if he wanted to move up, there's nothing stopping him.


Powers &8^]

Ed might be more current thank me on this, but my recollection was that Destler was initially in favor of going all D1 (and said so publicly), but has come to see the wisdom of having just hockey (men's and women's) as D1 sports. It seems I have heard him state this new theme more recently and also I think I recall hearing the trustees say something similar.

Now, I don't know what's currently up with the women's issue, but the moratorium was lifted along with a new rule saying no more play-ups, so RIT is going to need to get an exception to move the women up (and last I heard that was being worked on).

 

[Bing]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Looks like Colavecchia will be playing this year. Not sure what became of his alleged legal issues.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

Re: >>>>> RIT Tigers 2011-2012 <<<<< Dreaming is Done, Time to ROAR

This week's edition of RIT SportsZone - the first of its tenth season - offers an interview with Chris Tanev and a preview of the upcoming men's hockey season (with Wilson, Burt, Madalora, and Haltigin). Well worth a watch.

Ed might be more current thank me on this, but my recollection was that Destler was initially in favor of going all D1 (and said so publicly), but has come to see the wisdom of having just hockey (men's and women's) as D1 sports. It seems I have heard him state this new theme more recently and also I think I recall hearing the trustees say something similar.

That's certainly what I thought to be the case. (Though I still don't recall him ever definitively saying he'd like RIT go D-I.)

Now, I don't know what's currently up with the women's issue, but the moratorium was lifted along with a new rule saying no more play-ups, so RIT is going to need to get an exception to move the women up (and last I heard that was being worked on).

Yeah, that seems like the default assumption, but it's weird... the moratorium got so much attention when it was instituted, and for its first two years, and now its expiration hasn't even merited a note on the front page of USCHO. And last I knew the "new rule" was only a proposal; are we sure it was ever actually instituted?


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