Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Kind of like how Xmas existed before Christianity and the earth isn't 6000 years old etc.

Wot?

Christmas existed before Christ?


If you meant to say that the way that we currently celebrate the "Christmas Season" borrows from many cultures and religious beliefs that predate Christ's time on earth or the birth of Christianity, then you would be correct.

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Wow, you really seem married to that idea. I'm just not sure how it marries with the concept of freedom of religion. Also, if we decree that only some religious institutions may use a particular word, and only to mean one particular thing, how does that marry with the idea of freedom of speech? But I guess since nobody has ever used that word for anything else ever, it won't be a problem.

You missed my point. I don't care a bit what people choose to call their relationships. I'm not saying its an issue of "freedom of religion" at all. It only surprised me that someone who was anti-religion would WANT to use the word for what I was thinking of as a religious concept. It's been made clear that it's not what I thought it was, etymologically. So good, I learned something.
Also, your example above doesn't illuminate the point of etymology at all. It's what we call a "derivative" use of the word. "Marriage" didn't originate to describe the union between a person and her closely held ideas. It's a descriptor of the relationship that gets its meaning from the "life partnership" meaning which was the original meaning. "derivative meaning" is often far flung from word origin.

For people less argumentative that want to learn something though, Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article on "marriage", check it out. The very condensed version would seem to be that marriage originated as a way to claim a particular woman's kids as your legal property and heirs.
And where did the "gay marriage" issue get mixed in people? "Anti-religious" is not synonymous with "gay."

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Oh come off it. You chose to use a loaded term that was invented to make gay unions second class to "real" marriages while defending a strawman argument. You don't get to claim the martyr now.

Marriage in one form or another goes back to at least the Greeks and Romans and most likely much, much farther back than that. It's considered a universal human custom across all continents and cultures. You can't seriously be surprised that people would object to their relationships being reclassified as something less than marriage.

Also, "religion" isn't synonymous with "Christianity." People have always had religious sacraments.

 

[unofan]

Also, "religion" isn't synonymous with "Christianity." People have always had religious sacraments.

Yes, but marriage has never been exclusively religious, either. For instance, parts of ancient Greece allowed a practice very much like what we call a common law marriage these days.

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Yes, but marriage has never been exclusively religious, either.

right. It's more or less a legal construct that has been sanctified in different ways by different cultures.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Been to Wisconsin. Same thing.

**** you.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Been to Wisconsin. Same thing.

Uncalled for.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

No kidding and I accept Kep's apology.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

"Segregation of white and colored children in public schools has a detrimental effect upon the colored children. The impact is greater when it has the sanction of the law, for the policy of separating the races is usually interpreted as denoting the inferiority of the Negro group...Any language in contrary to this finding is rejected. We conclude that in the field of public education the doctrine of ‘separate but equal’ has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. ”
—Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court

It still gives me chills to read that. I just don't see how any decent human being could fail to draw the parallel to the inherent inequality of segregating unions into marriage vs. civil categories - and then to further claim that *we* are the ones who just go on about semantics.

Well a book that was written thousands of years ago didnt tell Warren that God Hates Blacks! Since God finds gay sex gross they dont deserve equal rights!

Come on Lynah

 

[joecct]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

It's all Lee Marvin's fault!!!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Also, "religion" isn't synonymous with "Christianity." People have always had religious sacraments.

And then there's this.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/popeatheist.asp#pq930YKDvMHWi1Zh.99

-- Pope Francis.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/popeatheist.asp#pq930YKDvMHWi1Zh.99

-- Pope Francis.

The thing about that quote is... it actually means Francis did say you don't need to believe in God to be a good person. What is required is... do good.

Rough translation: "Eat it, Luther. Sola fide is crap." It's also a nice little side swipe at Benedict 16.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Also, your example above doesn't illuminate the point of etymology at all.

That's because I don't care about etymology. I'm just saying that attempts to declare from upon high that that term XYZ shall mean A but not B are doomed to failure (just ask the French). Language morphs over time; just because XYZ meant A at some point in the past does not mean that it will (nor should) continue to mean that forever. Trying to freeze word definitions is like trying to hold back a flood with a slotted spoon.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Typical liberal positions...

Hmm... so you are saying that "live and let live" is NOT a liberal position?


When did that happen?


are you saying that liberals now reject The Bill of Rights? when did that happen??



Shall we repeal the third amendment, to make sure that everyone behaves "properly"? No thank you sir!




I spend all this time arguing with right-wing folk that liberal is not the same as progressive, and now I have to have that same argument with left-wing folk too?

Liberals do not necessarily endorse government control; it is about society doing the "right thing." or so I thought.

Imagine Venn diagrams. There is a big circle called "liberal" and inside it is a smaller circle called "progressive." I'm a liberal who distrusts government. So was Thomas Jefferson and Martin Luther King Jr. (it was government in Alabama that imposed segregation, remember? or maybe you don't).

The most important thing to people who work for government is to see that people who work for government are well provided for. Everything else is secondary. and you want to give people like that unfettered control over our lives?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I am just gonna put this here...

I gotta think the last thing you want to admit publicly is that you put forth witnesses to the jury you are sure were lying but you don't/didn't care.

"I knew somebody would be critical of whatever I did,” he said. “I thought it was important to present anybody and everybody, and some that were, yes, clearly not telling the truth, no question about it."

What a moron.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I gotta think the last thing you want to admit publicly is that you put forth witnesses to the jury you are sure were lying but you don't/didn't care.

Your timing is impeccable!

I was just about to post that all of us probably agree that there is a moral authority that is higher than the government. We can disagree on what it is or what it teaches, but the foundational premise, there is a moral authority that is higher / stronger than the government, is something we'd all agree on.

Because if not, the entire premise of civilization is merely founded upon the principle, "don't get caught."

 

[geezer]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

That's because I don't care about etymology. I'm just saying that attempts to declare from upon high that that term XYZ shall mean A but not B are doomed to failure (just ask the French). Language morphs over time; just because XYZ meant A at some point in the past does not mean that it will (nor should) continue to mean that forever. Trying to freeze word definitions is like trying to hold back a flood with a slotted spoon.

I will gaily agree with this point.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Hmm... so you are saying that "live and let live" is NOT a liberal position?


When did that happen?


are you saying that liberals now reject The Bill of Rights? when did that happen??



Shall we repeal the third amendment, to make sure that everyone behaves "properly"? No thank you sir!




I spend all this time arguing with right-wing folk that liberal is not the same as progressive, and now I have to have that same argument with left-wing folk too?

Liberals do not necessarily endorse government control; it is about society doing the "right thing." or so I thought.

Imagine Venn diagrams. There is a big circle called "liberal" and inside it is a smaller circle called "progressive." I'm a liberal who distrusts government. So was Thomas Jefferson and Martin Luther King Jr. (it was government in Alabama that imposed segregation, remember? or maybe you don't).

The most important thing to people who work for government is to see that people who work for government are well provided for. Everything else is secondary. and you want to give people like that unfettered control over our lives?

You're for Voter ID, civil unions, school vouchers, elimination of DoE, elimination of the social safety net and promote states' rights. Neither a liberal nor a progressive.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

and you want to give people like that unfettered control over our lives?

We've been over this before. Nobody here is dumb enough to fall for your concern trolling. Take it back to RedState.