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Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
I feel like church maybe owes people an apology.
I hope snl tells them to pound sand
I feel like church maybe owes people an apology.
I hope snl tells them to pound sand
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
The Church has apologized. It needs to do so even more, and it needs to go beyond just the attendees at mass. There should be a large ad campaign that says, "We're criminal arseholes, too, please come back. After all, some of you support Trump!"
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
The laugh was at the expense of people who still support the Catholic Church and its existing leadership, not the victims. But nice try with the attempt to make the Church the victim.
Let the Vatican burn for all I care. But take the artwork the gold first, as reparations for centuries of misdeeds and doublespoken moral terpitude.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Absolutely and snl should not apologize.
But tying an individuals bad behavior to an entire institution is poor journalism regardless of who does it. Rush Limbaugh's version would tie R. Kelly to Democrats (R. Kelly is a D) and be equally wrong. And believe me, Rush Limbaugh does have a version of that joke.
Absolutely and snl should not apologize.
But tying an individuals bad behavior to an entire institution is poor journalism regardless of who does it. Rush Limbaugh's version would tie R. Kelly to Democrats (R. Kelly is a D) and be equally wrong. And believe me, Rush Limbaugh does have a version of that joke.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Holy Mother Church deserves it for officially hiding the perps and smearing the victims. It can die in a Lake of Fire.
Holy Mother Church deserves it for officially hiding the perps and smearing the victims. It can die in a Lake of Fire.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Save the art(1), the buildings(2), the music(3), and the philosophy(4). Those are a pinnacle of human achievement, as important as the moon landings or medicine or democracy.
(1) Before 1600
(2) Before 1700
(3) Before 1800
(4) Before 1900
Save the art(1), the buildings(2), the music(3), and the philosophy(4). Those are a pinnacle of human achievement, as important as the moon landings or medicine or democracy.
(1) Before 1600
(2) Before 1700
(3) Before 1800
(4) Before 1900
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
No. Punish those responsible. I sense a we bit of personal history behind your quote.
No. Punish those responsible. I sense a we bit of personal history behind your quote.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
The church officials are collectively responsible, the same way a company's management would be responsible for similar crimes and their cover up. The parishioners are not responsible.
I have no personal animus against the church other than having been bored to tears by mass for years by my parents, and that's hardly the church's fault.
The church officials are collectively responsible, the same way a company's management would be responsible for similar crimes and their cover up. The parishioners are not responsible.
I have no personal animus against the church other than having been bored to tears by mass for years by my parents, and that's hardly the church's fault.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Say a private day care company has employees who molest the kids. The company covers it up and moves those employees around between sites, where they molest again. The management of that company would be criminally responsible.
Say a private day care company has employees who molest the kids. The company covers it up and moves those employees around between sites, where they molest again. The management of that company would be criminally responsible.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
What percent of the Catholic church officials and international ministries, such as those delivering fresh water to the third world, would you say knew nothing of rape or its cover up?
What percent of the Catholic church officials and international ministries, such as those delivering fresh water to the third world, would you say knew nothing of rape or its cover up?
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Oh, you're talking hypothetical. Or non-corporations. Got it. Because here I thought you were saying corporate execs are punished.
Oh, you're talking hypothetical. Or non-corporations. Got it. Because here I thought you were saying corporate execs are punished.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
That is an impossible answer to give. The problem with the cover-up is that only the complicit knew what was happening. Some other priests may have heard rumors, but you can't know who or how many.
That is an impossible answer to give. The problem with the cover-up is that only the complicit knew what was happening. Some other priests may have heard rumors, but you can't know who or how many.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
We should have some sort of idea if the entire church is to be punished. If the proposition is the entire church...then would we should assume that at least 80% of pastors nationwide would have participated in rape or the cover up.
So...the church has a long way to go to atone for its guilt. But let's not blame every last human associated with any organization that's had some wrong doing.
We should have some sort of idea if the entire church is to be punished. If the proposition is the entire church...then would we should assume that at least 80% of pastors nationwide would have participated in rape or the cover up.
So...the church has a long way to go to atone for its guilt. But let's not blame every last human associated with any organization that's had some wrong doing.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Pope Francis had direct knowledge about issues happing in South America. The bishops of almost every diocese and archdiocese in the US had received reports and covered up reports of priests diddling little children. From the conference held just last week, pretty much the leadership across the entirely of the world has been dealing with the same sorts of issues. The only people who may have been in the clear where the laity and the honest priests. After that, the Church is culpable.
Pope Francis had direct knowledge about issues happing in South America. The bishops of almost every diocese and archdiocese in the US had received reports and covered up reports of priests diddling little children. From the conference held just last week, pretty much the leadership across the entirely of the world has been dealing with the same sorts of issues. The only people who may have been in the clear where the laity and the honest priests. After that, the Church is culpable.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Yeah. What he said
Yeah. What he said
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
Its an impossible answer to give until you want to indict the entire church...then its fully knowable.
Alright, let's assume your case that every single last American bishop knew about rape. Catholic bishops number about 0.3% of American pastors (250 vs. 100K). Are we now to say that there are no 'laity and honest' priests and that 100% of priests jointly covered up rape?
Punishing close to a hundred thousand innocents for the crimes of a tiny fraction is never right.
Its an impossible answer to give until you want to indict the entire church...then its fully knowable.
Alright, let's assume your case that every single last American bishop knew about rape. Catholic bishops number about 0.3% of American pastors (250 vs. 100K). Are we now to say that there are no 'laity and honest' priests and that 100% of priests jointly covered up rape?
Punishing close to a hundred thousand innocents for the crimes of a tiny fraction is never right.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
No, what you're saying isn't accurate either. It's well known within the Church that many seminaries were filled with consenting shenanigans between priests. After they leave their cloistered seminaries, and are put out into the world where they're then expected to actually live the celibate life. Forcing that upon people will cause them to act out in horrible ways. Most priests within the Church were probably good, well intended representatives of their faith, but a don't pretend that the 100k were all without knowledge. My point was that we don't know how many knew and how many didn't. It's not 250/100,000 it's 250/(100,000x), where X is 0 < x < 1, and the exact figure is impossible to know.
No, what you're saying isn't accurate either. It's well known within the Church that many seminaries were filled with consenting shenanigans between priests. After they leave their cloistered seminaries, and are put out into the world where they're then expected to actually live the celibate life. Forcing that upon people will cause them to act out in horrible ways. Most priests within the Church were probably good, well intended representatives of their faith, but a don't pretend that the 100k were all without knowledge. My point was that we don't know how many knew and how many didn't. It's not 250/100,000 it's 250/(100,000x), where X is 0 < x < 1, and the exact figure is impossible to know.
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer
My numbers are far closer to correct than wrong...
So OK then I'll repeat, if we don't know that X = 0.9 or 90% of priests are rapists or covering them up...why exactly are we indicting the entire church?
My numbers are far closer to correct than wrong...
So OK then I'll repeat, if we don't know that X = 0.9 or 90% of priests are rapists or covering them up...why exactly are we indicting the entire church?
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