Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I read a book once- Heresies of the Early Christian Church. Dry as a bone but it talked about how all the decisions were made, the various factions, etc. If it didn't support the resurrection theme- out it went.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I read a book once- Heresies of the Early Christian Church. Dry as a bone but it talked about how all the decisions were made, the various factions, etc. If it didn't support the resurrection theme- out it went.

I like dry. Remember the author? There were many Christian sects who did not believe in the literal Resurrection because, well let's face it, it's ridiculous. But TPTB felt they needed the pizzazz to get the crowds in, so the non-magical people were suppressed (or worse).

My favorite treatment is in Copleston's history of philosophy. Vol 2, I think -- the one that does the Patristics. It's heavy going if you're not used to Olde High Oxbridge, but it's fascinating and, like all of Copleston, beautifully reasoned.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

As a general rule, anything that could likely be dismissed as speculative hearsay (stories from his youth), or any writings that could introduce plausible deniability to the narrative of divine and sinless Jesus being part of a "Trinity" that is still somehow One God, got canned. All of that distracts from the core message anyway.

Personally I'm ok with that. I don't care if the case for Christ's existence in the Bible is airtight or not - its not already. The details are literally not important - the big picture is critically important and helps people worldwide on a daily basis.

And there's plenty of stuff in the Bible that folks get distracted by anyways.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I like dry. Remember the author? There were many Christian sects who did not believe in the literal Resurrection because, well let's face it, it's ridiculous. But TPTB felt they needed the pizzazz to get the crowds in, so the non-magical people were suppressed (or worse).

My favorite treatment is in Copleston's history of philosophy. Vol 2, I think -- the one that does the Patristics. It's heavy going if you're not used to Olde High Oxbridge, but it's fascinating and, like all of Copleston, beautifully reasoned.

Yep. That is the one. mum les went thru a phase of curiosity about this stuff. I have that, the Gospels of Thomas - wayyyyyyy weird, and a few other books that explore how things came to be in the "Church"

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Personally I'm ok with that. I don't care if the case for Christ's existence in the Bible is airtight or not - its not already. The details are literally not important - the big picture is critically important and helps people worldwide on a daily basis.

And there's plenty of stuff in the Bible that folks get distracted by anyways.

Which would work if people treated it as a parable or a metaphor. Unfortunately people treat it like a command line reference. And that means all that ahem distracting (I believe the term you were looking for was "embarrassing") stuff gets put into practice by people who then wind up harming others because of their "deep felt religious beliefs."

God's a great idea until you start taking it literally.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Which would work if people treated it as a parable or a metaphor. Unfortunately people treat it like a command line reference. And that means all that ahem distracting (I believe the term you were looking for was "embarrassing") stuff gets put into practice by people who then wind up harming others because of their "deep felt religious beliefs."

God's a great idea until you start taking it literally.

Agree with the point on parable. But leadup content shouldn't be embarrassing. Its quite relevant as context for the main story.

The problematic part is when people, with differing agendas, either consciously or unconsciously use this context to override the Gospels. And there is no shortage of outside motivations.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Agree with the point on parable. But leadup content shouldn't be embarrassing. Its quite relevant as context for the main story.

The problematic part is when people, with differing agendas, either consciously or unconsciously use this context to override the Gospels. And there is no shortage of outside motivations.

The Gospels have Jesus telling us to throw away all our property and turn our backs on our family and follow him.

There's stuff in the Gospels that's dumb, too.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

The Gospels have Jesus telling us to throw away all our property and turn our backs on our family and follow him.

There's stuff in the Gospels that's dumb, too.

The message is give all your possessions to the poor. One may not be able to reach that high of a bar, but maybe each of us should do more for the poor than we are? Regardless, a Christian's general stance on the poor should not be hard to discern.

 

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

So I've been checking out Grace Episcopal. A member came up to me and said "all are welcome at the table." Even though I don't believe in much of anything, they call me one of their own there, and the Rector there is basically my new best friend.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

So I've been checking out Grace Episcopal. A member came up to me and said "all are welcome at the table." Even though I don't believe in much of anything, they call me one of their own there, and the Rector there is basically my new best friend.

Great. Its kind of what this is and supposed to be all about - service for others. Other individuals are there as well for those benefits - and unfort. as with the rest of society, some will have differing POVs.

Regardless, top priority for church is local community and help for anyone who can benefit.

 

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Great. Its kind of what this is and supposed to be all about - service for others. Other individuals are there as well for those benefits - and unfort. as with the rest of society, some will have differing POVs.

Regardless, top priority for church is local community and help for anyone who can benefit.

And I'm on the fence about my beliefs. But it's nice to be viewed as a Child of God, rather than who I'm attracted to/my gender identity.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

And I'm on the fence about my beliefs. But it's nice to be viewed as a Child of God, rather than who I'm attracted to/my gender identity.

Lots of people are on the fence about their beliefs. If you blindly believe, without thought, then is that real deep faith or routine? Personally I think it is normal and expected to have periods of questioning. I ask the HS kids in my church SS class every year if there are parts they struggle with. I would say pretty much everyone for the last 10 yrs has said yes- except the Pastor's wife. And I am not sure how much of a deep thinker she was.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

The question of God's existence should not be high on your list of priorities.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

The existence of God should be not be high on your list of priorities.

Why Kepler, you’ve changed

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

The question of God's existence should not be high on your list of priorities.

Yeah, because it's a fable. Like Zeus, Odin, Jack and the Beanstalk.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Why Kepler, you’ve changed

In addition to a conduit for charity, there are two purposes for church. One is creating local community - an open market of connecting as well as giving and receiving of support. Sounds like this is what Ms. is currently most interested in...so why not just focus on that?

Another is worship type stuff. If a recent joiner is interested in this...why not first learn about things? Spend time with the Gospels and get to know who God is before anything. Date before you marry. And nobody says you ever have to decide. Per wiki, Christians are defined as those who follow the life and teachings of Jesus and even then, you are welcome to participate without being Christian.

Yeah, because it's a fable. Like Zeus, Odin, Jack and the Beanstalk.

That may seem like a highly relevant perspective for an atheist or skeptic. But it truly misses the mark of the broader concept and its benefits.

 

[burd]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

The question of God's existence should not be high on your list of priorities.

Good advice. And I know you say it is skeptics, atheists, and agnostics who tend to focus most on the question of God's existence, but do you believe in a heaven and hell which exists in anything other than a metaphorical sense and which awaits us after death?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Always with the coolest questions.

Good advice. And I know you say it is skeptics, atheists, and agnostics who tend to focus most on the question of God's existence, but do you believe in a heaven and hell which exists in anything other than a metaphorical sense and which awaits us after death?

The easy answer is I believe in a metaphorical heaven and hell. Do good and you'll be in 'heaven'; don't do bad and stay out of 'hell'.

Regarding a concrete/future heaven and hell 1) can't know and 2) consider it actually not important. Not that its not important, but that I can't know nor do anything about. And in the end, I have no problem with that as I already do much of what I can because of my belief in a metaphorical heaven/hell.

Good/bad behavior is kind of like doing good/bad work for your job. Don't worry about the quality of your lifestyle...do the best you can in your work on the job. You do good work, you will get paid well and you will have a good lifestyle. As long as you know what good behavior is (and that's the Word)...you can only do the best you are capable of towards definitive good.

 

[burd]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Always with the coolest questions.



The easy answer is I believe in a metaphorical heaven and hell. Do good and you'll be in 'heaven'; don't do bad and stay out of 'hell'.

Regarding a concrete/future heaven and hell 1) can't know and 2) consider it actually not important. Not that its not important, but that I can't know nor do anything about. And in the end, I have no problem with that as I already do much of what I can because of my belief in a metaphorical heaven/hell.

Good/bad behavior is kind of like doing good/bad work for your job. Don't worry about the quality of your lifestyle...do the best you can in your work on the job. You do good work, you will get paid well and you will have a good lifestyle. As long as you know what good behavior is (and that's the Word)...you can only do the best you are capable of towards definitive good.

Sounds more like philosophy than religion--a very good one.

Sometimes semantics are so important; sometimes not.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Anyone see the story about the priests at the Trump rally? I guess the Bishop was not amused . Ooops!