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Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

St. Clown said:
When it's legal, and the woman is of age, pimps aren't going to be as much of a problem. Coercion is always a consideration, therefore writing and executing the laws would have to take that into consideration. That being said, it's legal in Germany and they even provide for "safe" places for the prostitutes to work. I do not have any crime stats related specifically to German hooker harming.
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Its called human trafficking and as wiki says: According to the International Labour Organization (ILO), forced labor alone (one component of human trafficking) generates an estimated $150 billion in profits per annum as of 2014.[9] In 2012, the ILO estimated that 21 million victims are trapped in modern-day slavery. Of these, 14.2 million (68%) were exploited for labor, 4.5 million (22%) were sexually exploited, and 2.2 million (10%) were exploited in state-imposed forced labor.[10] Human trafficking is thought to be one of the fastest-growing activities of trans-national criminal organizations.

In a study called 'Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?', a consortium of Harvard and European universities found that: 'Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows."

https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986065

So if you believe human trafficking is a bad thing then prostitution is a bad thing and while skeptics may be, I have no evidence that Jesus would have been for any of it.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

There have been an ongoing number of posts blaming the religious with prejudice for a bizarre collection of outcomes. Not saying bigotry doesn't happen among the religious...but it doesn't happen on these boards. If Jews or blacks or immigrants were blamed in the same way the general religious are...folks would be thrown off the boards.

So I recently found an article by an atheist website that acknowledges an increasing bigotry trend among atheists. Sadly most Christians looking for intellectual dialog have been run off the thread, so where are these atheists who can have an intellectual discussion about faith on a thread about faith?

A couple of quotes:

"A few weeks ago, I was searching various atheist-related hashtags on Twitter to see what people were talking about when I ran across a few examples of anti-Christian bigotry on the part of atheists. One was complaining about A&E's reversal of their decision to remove Phil Roberstson by saying that this sort of thing was why he "hates all Christians." Hating someone you've never met simply because they are Christian? Yeah, that's bigotry.

Seeing this sort of thing on Twitter is not terribly surprising. It would not be an exaggeration to say that I see it almost every time I use Twitter. But this does not make it any less disappointing. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in trading one form of bigotry for another. I do not oppose anti-atheist bigotry from Christians because I hope to replace it with anti-Christian bigotry from atheists. That is not the goal. At least, it isn't my goal. The problem is the bigotry and not the direction it takes.

Some atheists are bound to be concerned that the anti-Christian bigotry being expressed by some atheists will be used to strengthen the stereotypes many Christians hold about atheists (e.g., that we hate Christians). They will advise atheists "don't be a dick" without explaining what they mean because they are worried that this kind of thing will fuel the bigotry we face from Christians. This is understandable. It does become a bit more difficult to correct the misconception that we atheists hate Christians when some atheists are loudly proclaiming their hatred for all Christians."

http://www.atheistrev.com/2014/02/anti-christian-bigotry-from-atheists.html
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

For anyone to think that bigotry by some atheists towards religious groups doesn't exist is to either look at life through blinders or an attempt to sell someone something. The question raised in other threads here has more to with your statements about the motives of all atheists when you've either taken deliberate steps to not understand our way of understanding the world/universe, and instead assigned negative motives to our actions.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

So he found "a few" Twitter examples, and it's now, "an increasing trend" according to you? Talk about confirmation bias.

I'm positive if I go hit up right wing Twitter or Freep, I can find "a few" examples of the opposite.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

St. Clown said:
For anyone to think that bigotry by some atheists towards religious groups doesn't exist is to either look at life through blinders or an attempt to sell someone something. The question raised in other threads here has more to with your statements about the motives of all atheists when you've either taken deliberate steps to not understand our way of understanding the world/universe, and instead assigned negative motives to our actions.
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Finally an attempt at discussion.

I have not made criticism of 'all atheists'. I specifically has said atheists are frequently super...I have more close friends that are atheist than Christian. Christians often behave badly. But we don't have any here that continuously dump on others. We have atheists that have blanket criticism of the religious regularly. Pretty much just Kepler.

I have referenced doctrine. I have discussed the atheist doctrine which makes no sense to me, but would love to discuss that and other religious doctrine. That type of discussion has been totally replaced by isolated, extremist incidents in a manner that is just religious flaming. And when one tries to defend against said flaming...that individual is flamed further. Its has caused all religious to leave the thread.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

5mn_Major said:
I have discussed the atheist doctrine which makes no sense to me
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This is basically QED for how you have not understood anything at all. Your statement means nothing. It is the equivalent of saying "I have examined this butterfly collector's handbook for gun collecting, and it makes no sense to me at all." It is a nullity. For the hundredth time, we are not against theism, we're outside it.

BTW, I'm still waiting for where I've attacked all believers. The great thing about the Forum is you can go back and look.

But that would require work. And intellectual honesty. So I don't think anyone's gonna hold their breath.

There is a line in Star Trek, in "Tribbles," I believe, where a character yells at Kirk "You take your responsibilities lightly." To which he retorts: "I am aware of my responsibilities. It is you I take lightly."

For the trillionth and last time, it's not "belief" that is silly. It is one particular form of foolish, dogmatic, authoritarian credulity that says "My Way Only," which is of course just short for, "Me Only."

The personification of that style of belief is what we're going to see for the next four years.
 
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Kepler said:
You leave Heinlein's mother out of this.
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That was Maximus Decimus Meridius. Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

joecct said:
That was Maximus Decimus Meridius. Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife.
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Commodus was a lousy choice, BTW. I know M.A. is the genuine article: a philosopher Emperor. But dude... you had ONE job. :mad:

For a better philosopher Emperor I'd go with Julian the Apostate because (1) of course I would, and (2) he was actually very impressive himself. He also wrote better poetry which if you've struggled through M.A. in Latin class... not a high bar.

For the real stuff, though, there is no one better than Catullus for the light touch:

Paedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
Aureli pathice et cinaede Furi,
qui me ex versiculis meis putastis,
quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
ipsum, versiculos nihil necesse est,
qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici
et quod pruriat
incitare possunt,
non dico pueris, sed his pilosis,
qui duros nequeunt movere lumbos.
Vos quod milia multa basiorum
legistis, male me marem putatis?
Paedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Bob the Martyr said:
That type of discussion has been totally replaced by isolated, extremist incidents in a manner that is just religious flaming. And when one tries to defend against said flaming...that individual is flamed further. Its has caused all religious to leave the thread.
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Changed your handle.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Kepler said:
BTW, I'm still waiting for where I've attacked all believers. The great thing about the Forum is you can go back and look.
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You throw blanket disparaging remarks about the religious (dumb Christians, Jeebus) all the time; you blame bad outcomes on the religious for many things that have nothing to do with religion (most recently presidential assassinations by the religious); you post a continuous stream of isolated, one off examples of bad religion. All this on a weekly basis.

Tell me that making all these comments about blacks would be acceptable.

Kepler said:
This is basically QED for how you have not understood anything at all. Your statement means nothing. It is the equivalent of saying "I have examined this butterfly collector's handbook for gun collecting, and it makes no sense to me at all." It is a nullity. For the hundredth time, we are not against theism, we're outside it.
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Its amazing how often doctrine (atheism) is confused with individuals (atheists). Doctrine is responsible for itself and individuals for their own actions.

Atheism is not outside of theism. Proof...if theism didn't exist, would atheism? No. Its an integral counter reaction to theism.

Atheism is defined as 'the doctrine that there is no God'. Its not defined as a belief in science, nor as you should be a good person, nor anything else its given credit for. Atheists may have these traits but by definition, they are not derived from atheism. So in replacing religious codes/support/etc, atheists may be able to find a replacement...but its not in atheism itself. Atheism is a simple statement of 'no' - regarding religion or God.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Jeebus is not a disparaging remark. It's a reference to Homer Simpson.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

5mn_Major said:
Atheism is not outside of theism. Proof...if theism didn't exist, would atheism? No. Its an integral counter reaction to theism.

Atheism is defined as 'the doctrine that there is no God'. Its not defined as a belief in science, nor as you should be a good person, nor anything else its given credit for. Atheists may have these traits but by definition, they are not derived from atheism. So in replacing religious codes/support/etc, atheists may be able to find a replacement...but its not in atheism itself. Atheism is a simple statement of 'no' - regarding religion or God.
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The word Atheism is rooted in Greek. Using the pre-fix A means to go without or to lack. Theism is something you clearly have down pat. So the word atheism literally means to be without theism, or to be without religion.

Since humankind began we've had religion of some sort, so a theist culture. Using atheism just comes about as a way to relate to the rest of the world, to help them label those of us without giving daily thought to worshipping some being up in the sky, or hiding in a tree, or the ocean, and so on and so forth.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Antitheist is the actual word for those who 5mn misidentifies as atheist. It is basic to realize, as he apparently does not, that not all atheists are antitheists. Self included, many atheists are fascinated by and enjoy the study of theism and the psychology of theists. We want you guys to go on worshipping Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan. It's fun to watch you "know" stuff, and from the persistence of religion through human history it seems to be working for you. Well, some of you. Sometimes. Sort of.

Likewise, there are dystheists ("I believe in God and that dude needs to check Himself before He wrecks Himself") and misotheists ("I absolutely believe in God and I absolutely hate the sonofab-tch" -- Riddick). I suspect they are fun at parties.

The whole thing is a romp through Greek prefixes and in fact theism has been such an important part of so many lives that likely at least one person has been an xtheist where x is any Greek prefix:

endotheist: God is within me

hypertheist: God needs to turn it down a notch

metatheist: {Final Boss} transcends all man has until now thought was "God"

prostheist: God has a wooden leg
 
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

The Greek meaning of myriad is the number 10,000. While interesting, Greek roots tell us nothing of the word.

I never claimed that atheism said that religion was destructive. But atheism's sole purpose for existing is theism - if there were no religion, atheism would cease to exist. And I'm not talking about other groups.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

5mn_Major said:
The Greek meaning of myriad is the number 10,000. While interesting, Greek roots tell us nothing of the word.

I never claimed that atheism said that religion was destructive. But atheism's sole purpose for existing is theism - if there were no religion, atheism would cease to exist.
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When something can only exist in a binary state, eliminating one inherently eliminates the other.

What you've just said is that the number 2 can only exist if first you've established that there's a number 1.

Atheism would have no reason to be a recognized term if religion itself didn't exist because the default world view would be one without religion. Why define a term in such a situation?
 
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