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Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

LynahFan said:
So all good Christians should off themselves now to end their suffering?
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No. I am relating the premise of what the priest said, not that you have to agree with it. It also didn't say you should seek death but if you were 'called home' early that it wasn't a punishment. It was an interesting way to look at it. Not one I would have thought of on my own. Not being Catholic I was a bit surprised at the way he wanted us to look at it
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

LynahFan said:
So all good Christians should off themselves now to end their suffering?
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Absolutely not.

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

If Jesus dies for our sins then how can he rescind that when someone does a mortal sin?
 
leswp1 said:
If Jesus dies for our sins then how can he rescind that when someone does a mortal sin?
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A mortal sin is a conscious, deliberate rejection of God's graces. For example, a serial killer; a robber baron; Richard Corey.

If it harms no one, do it
Protect the weak from the strong.

Prey on the weak and I doubt God will have a positive view when you stand before Him in judgment.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

OK I read the link. Still don't get it. God's grace is steadfast and endless. We have the fault, we do bad stuff, but he forgives us. Why are humans deciding to label things in categories and saying He can't forgive things? If we are repentant and asking for Grace that is what He asks. Many people murder then feel sorry afterwards. God can forgive them. Men may not. Men have laws to deal with the human side but God is abounding in steadfast love. He gave His Son to die for us and who are we to say it isn't enough? There are multiple stories in the Bible to illustrate humans having to deal with God forgiving people when the human thinks they should be punished

If a person is actively rejecting that grace then they refuse to receive it so can't be in Grace. God still offers it, they reject it. God is still willing to be giving it, no matter whether we think He should or not.
 
leswp1 said:
OK I read the link. Still don't get it. God's grace is steadfast and endless. We have the fault, we do bad stuff, but he forgives us. Why are humans deciding to label things in categories and saying He can't forgive things? If we are repentant and asking for Grace that is what He asks. Many people murder then feel sorry afterwards. God can forgive them. Men may not. Men have laws to deal with the human side but God is abounding in steadfast love. He gave His Son to die for us and who are we to say it isn't enough? There are multiple stories in the Bible to illustrate humans having to deal with God forgiving people when the human thinks they should be punished

If a person is actively rejecting that grace then they refuse to receive it so can't be in Grace. God still offers it, they reject it. God is still willing to be giving it, no matter whether we think He should or not.
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Right - absolutely. God loves us all. But there are some purely evil people out there who would reject that love and would not recognize it if it hits them between the eyes. If they never repent, hell is their destination.

Remember, us Catholics believe in the Sacrament of Penance. Confess your sins to a priest, be heartily sorry, repent, and you get a clean sheet (whatever sins you shall retain, they are retained . Those sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven). Of course part of the promise is to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. However, we are imperfect and are prone to failure, hence frequent trips to the confessional are encouraged.

But in order to enter heaven, you must be 100% squeaky clean. Hence Purgatory, which was tossed by Luther and the other Protestant revolutionaries.

Think of it as a TSA line. :) Not carrying much - quick trip. Lots of baggage - you'll be there a while.

100% dirty - you're not flying.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

joecct said:
Right - absolutely. God loves us all. But there are some purely evil people out there who would reject that love and would not recognize it if it hits them between the eyes. If they never repent, hell is their destination.

Remember, us Catholics believe in the Sacrament of Penance. Confess your sins to a priest, be heartily sorry, repent, and you get a clean sheet (whatever sins you shall retain, they are retained . Those sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven). Of course part of the promise is to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin. However, we are imperfect and are prone to failure, hence frequent trips to the confessional are encouraged.

But in order to enter heaven, you must be 100% squeaky clean. Hence Purgatory, which was tossed by Luther and the other Protestant revolutionaries.

Think of it as a TSA line. :) Not carrying much - quick trip. Lots of baggage - you'll be there a while.

100% dirty - you're not flying.
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I thought Purgatory was abolished?
Luther didn't toss Purgatory. Actually he just asked for clarfication as he couldn't find any basis for it in the Scriptures. It sort of appeared when the Church needed money. You could buy forgiveness for yourself, family or anyone else by buying a [forget the term] but since you didn't know how many sins you were supposed to be in Purgatory for the moneymaking was endless.

I understand Catholics say you need a priest for all that but I can't see anywhere in the Bible that supports it (and no one could defend it to Luther either). Far as I can tell the Holy Spirit was sent for that purpose. I have a really hard time envisioning God, who went to all the trouble of having His Son die for us, thinking of ways from preventing us from being shriven. He spends most of Matthew telling people not to get all caught up in the Law while forgetting the reason behind it. This seems like a prime example.

What is the reason you are given for needing a priest? He seems superfluous. God already knows your sin. You have to come up with the list of sins to tell them to priest. Not like the priest knows what you did without telling. I can understand using a priest to work thru things, like a spiritual counselor. They can help you with the context, etc but God is forgiving the minute you repent.
 
leswp1 said:
I thought Purgatory was abolished?
Luther didn't toss Purgatory. Actually he just asked for clarfication as he couldn't find any basis for it in the Scriptures. It sort of appeared when the Church needed money. You could buy forgiveness for yourself, family or anyone else by buying a [forget the term] but since you didn't know how many sins you were supposed to be in Purgatory for the moneymaking was endless.

I understand Catholics say you need a priest for all that but I can't see anywhere in the Bible that supports it (and no one could defend it to Luther either). Far as I can tell the Holy Spirit was sent for that purpose. I have a really hard time envisioning God, who went to all the trouble of having His Son die for us, thinking of ways from preventing us from being shriven. He spends most of Matthew telling people not to get all caught up in the Law while forgetting the reason behind it. This seems like a prime example.

What is the reason you are given for needing a priest? He seems superfluous. God already knows your sin. You have to come up with the list of sins to tell them to priest. Not like the priest knows what you did without telling. I can understand using a priest to work thru things, like a spiritual counselor. They can help you with the context, etc but God is forgiving the minute you repent.
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Limbo was abolished. Purgatory still exists (though if you asked many Catholics now you'd be greeted with a whats that).

As to the rest - that was the result of the big disagreement 500 years ago.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

joecct said:
Limbo was abolished. Purgatory still exists (though if you asked many Catholics now you'd be greeted with a whats that).

As to the rest - that was the result of the big disagreement 500 years ago.
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I know. I really wish I could get an answer to those questions. What reason do they give you for needing a priest?
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

OK. Thanks. Don't necessarily agree with the interpretation but interesting. It seems to put the emphasis on things humans have decided are important. Needing to confess to a priest to learn humility being one. But then I was not brought up churched so focus on this stuff is odd to me.

The last few links you all have posted crystallize for me the differences between the Catholic thought process and the Protestant one I know. Lots of definition with in the definition delineating sin/process. I struggle with God/Jesus getting tied up in all that (again, Matthew- strictures against quoting the minutia of Law without the spirit of it) but at least I have a better understanding. (I read these and I think engineer or computer science)
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I'll give the LDS Church credit...they sure do know how to spend money on houses of worship.

With only 8,000 church members in the region, just imagine if they had built a facility half of its 48,500 sq. ft. size, and put the rest of the money to positive use...
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I'll give the LDS Church credit...they sure do know how to spend money on houses of worship.

With only 8,000 church members in the region, just imagine if they had built a facility half of its 48,500 sq. ft. size, and put the rest of the money to positive use...
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Given its relatively small enrollment vs. other churches, they're doing all right in the giving. They have the largest food distribution center in the United States, something one of the ABCs, CBSs or NBCs detailed in a news magazine during Romney's run.

In addition to small, personal acts of service, Mormons give large, organized assistance to areas in need. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has donated more than $1 billion in cash and material assistance to 167 different countries in need of humanitarian aid since it started keeping track in 1985. It sent an airlift of tents, tarps, diapers and other supplies to the areas of Chile hit by the February 2010 earthquake, and two planes with over 80,000 pounds each of food and emergency resources to Haiti in January 2010 due to their catastrophic earthquake. The local, national and international organization of the church allows it to coordinate relief efforts quickly so that food, supplies and workers can arrive when they are needed most.

The Church does not discriminate based on religious affiliation, ethnicity or nationality. We offer hope and the potential for a life that transcends disease, poverty and despair. It’s all part of God’s plan that we bear each other’s burdens and act as His hands on earth. The Church’s welfare program also helps people in need locally by offering temporary assistance in the form of food, clothing and in the search for employment. Recipients are given the opportunity to work, if possible, in exchange for this assistance.
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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

St. Clown said:
Given its relatively small enrollment vs. other churches, they're doing all right in the giving. They have the largest food distribution center in the United States, something one of the ABCs, CBSs or NBCs detailed in a news magazine during Romney's run.
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Where do they get all this money? Does every Mormon work for Bain, Marriott, or JetBlue? Some Illuminati conspiracy?! :D
 
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