Refs absent without leave

[Had Enough]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Just copied this from the "ECAC-EAST Playoffs" thread (from a Southern Maine fan):

"I agree, but in the past NEC has always been a tough opponent for Norwich in the ECAC Playoffs...Plus, Norwich plays (for the most part) pretty close games and if they don't get the bounces??? I still think Norwich will take this tourney but I don't think it's going to be a cakewalk...Skidmore will get screwed over by the refs: this is just a fact for some teams in the ECAC EAST..."

It makes you wonder....

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Just copied this from the "ECAC-EAST Playoffs" thread (from a Southern Maine fan):

"I agree, but in the past NEC has always been a tough opponent for Norwich in the ECAC Playoffs...Plus, Norwich plays (for the most part) pretty close games and if they don't get the bounces??? I still think Norwich will take this tourney but I don't think it's going to be a cakewalk...Skidmore will get screwed over by the refs: this is just a fact for some teams in the ECAC EAST..."

It makes you wonder....

I wrote this(well I am the only USM "fan" on the board) ...The is more to the eye when I posted this, I will not get into any specifics about that: but in no way was I bashing officials...I know a ton of good honest officials who call a pretty darn good game, its when OTHER things get in the way that's the problem...Politics and agendas !!!

 

[Had Enough]

Re: Refs absent without leave

I wrote this(well I am the only USM "fan" on the board) ...The is more to the eye when I posted this, I will not get into any specifics about that: but in no way was I bashing officials...I know a ton of good honest officials who call a pretty darn good game, its when OTHER things get in the way that's the problem...Politics and agendas !!!

Yikes! I could twist this into an X-Files conspiracy theory kind of thing, but I won't. That statement made me revisit Passthepuck's original post. The last thing I wanted to believe is that it could be a "waste" of anyone's money to send their son to a D III school to play hockey. There is, after all, the "education" component to the experience. However, if what you are inferring is that "politics and agendas" play any role in the outcome of games, that not only implicates the on-ice officials, but league officials , perhaps athletic directors, etc. Ugly.

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Yikes! I could twist this into an X-Files conspiracy theory kind of thing, but I won't. That statement made me revisit Passthepuck's original post. The last thing I wanted to believe is that it could be a "waste" of anyone's money to send their son to a D III school to play hockey. There is, after all, the "education" component to the experience. However, if what you are inferring is that "politics and agendas" play any role in the outcome of games, that not only implicates the on-ice officials, but league officials , perhaps athletic directors, etc. Ugly.

Nah, nothing that deep...Like I said before: most off the on ice officials call a pretty good game IMO...It doesn't have anything to do with Athletic Directors and it wouldn't play a role in my decision to send my son to a certain school ...All I will say is that not all teams get a fair shake within the ECAC EAST...

 

[passthepuck]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Nah, nothing that deep...Like I said before: most off the on ice officials call a pretty good game IMO...It doesn't have anything to do with Athletic Directors and it wouldn't play a role in my decision to send my son to a certain school ...All I will say is that not all teams get a fair shake within the ECAC EAST...

I think the 'credibility factor' in terms of where the competing teams rank does inevitably come into play. If it is to the extent that a higher ranked team generally plays better and that is what is seen to be the case on the ice that given day then it is legit. I would hope that any game callled allows for the opposite scenario, where a lower ranked team which is playing above their usual standard and is clearly the better team on the day, is not reeled in by refs who have made a decision in advance, in their own individual minds of course, as to who ought to or needs to advance, given rankings and previous performance. Refs can call a lopsided number of penalties to make things as they believe it ought to be, or they can double up on penalties allowing the higher ranked team to 'get back in the driver's seat'.

By the way, there is no sense in revealing which team's coach has an issue, the feedback to refs should be filtered for identities and be delivered in a form that precludes immediate recognition of individual coaches. Otherwise you are likely to get retribution calls which will only serve to further exacerbate the problem. As well, the only way to make sure that refs take any info seriously is to have somebody they know and respect interpret the information with and for them. If that individual or group of supervisors have seen a number of games, they can find a way to make constructive commentary pay off. If a few issues can be highlighted and needed change geared towards say levels of certification, then you have change that is productive.

Refs are human too, they need to feel respected while and as they are getting better at what they do. The obvious point was also stated. When you have 6 refs in a conference, you are likely to get a "if you don't like it lump it' attitude. Or a "who yu gunna call" approach. It would be great to expand the gene pool and get a few more refs. Then it would be a case of 'if you can't make needed changes, you will end up working less'.

Just a few more thoughts on the issue.

 

[Had Enough]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Was online last night reading about the games: except for Oswego/Bowdoin, I wish I was there, particularly the two OT games. A little later in the evening I took a look at the scoresheets and a few things in the Plat/Mid game caught my eye.

A "shooting after the whistle" penalty in a National Quarter-Final Game?? Really?? Against Midd. Interesting. That was at 14:16 of the first with Plat up 1-0.

Then Midd scores at 16:06 of the second to make it 2-1 Platt and 30 seconds later, the refs work Plat into a 5 on 3 PP with calls against Midd at 16:36 and again at 17:06!

I wasn't there so if anyone was I would appreciate your take on this. Midd is not the team I follow, but the team I do follow plays Midd every year so I am very familiar with the cast of characters wearing the stripes. This pattern of penalties is exactly what I have seen occur year after year in cases when the refs seem to inexplicably decide to get involved in the outcome of the game.

A ridiculous, or unusual call. A "too many men" call on a line change that looked exactly like every other line change in the game. A "shooting after the whistle" call. The wrong team builds some momentum and we get a "crease violation" call out of the blue to slow things down a bit. The wrong team is getting back into the game; how about a 5 on 3 to settle things down a bit?

Again, I wasn't there so if anyone was, please chime in. But I also won't be surprised if the Plat folks think the refs did a great job, and the Midd folks disagree!

 

[one_to7]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Um if there was going to be a 'right team' that the refs would favor, it would most likely be the home team panthers, not Plattsburgh.

No one refs hockey games because they want a certain team to win or because they want to turn a big game into a joke. These guys like hockey as much as the rest of us and generally just want to see a good clean game.

Insinuating the the only reason midd got called for penalties was to favor Plattsburgh is just silly. Penalties aren't just handed out, teams earn them by cheating. If you slash someone down, you're going to get called. There's no obligation to call penalties evenly both ways if one team is earning them and the other is not.

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Was online last night reading about the games: except for Oswego/Bowdoin, I wish I was there, particularly the two OT games. A little later in the evening I took a look at the scoresheets and a few things in the Plat/Mid game caught my eye.

A "shooting after the whistle" penalty in a National Quarter-Final Game?? Really?? Against Midd. Interesting. That was at 14:16 of the first with Plat up 1-0.

Then Midd scores at 16:06 of the second to make it 2-1 Platt and 30 seconds later, the refs work Plat into a 5 on 3 PP with calls against Midd at 16:36 and again at 17:06!

I wasn't there so if anyone was I would appreciate your take on this. Midd is not the team I follow, but the team I do follow plays Midd every year so I am very familiar with the cast of characters wearing the stripes. This pattern of penalties is exactly what I have seen occur year after year in cases when the refs seem to inexplicably decide to get involved in the outcome of the game.

A ridiculous, or unusual call. A "too many men" call on a line change that looked exactly like every other line change in the game. A "shooting after the whistle" call. The wrong team builds some momentum and we get a "crease violation" call out of the blue to slow things down a bit. The wrong team is getting back into the game; how about a 5 on 3 to settle things down a bit?

Again, I wasn't there so if anyone was, please chime in. But I also won't be surprised if the Plat folks think the refs did a great job, and the Midd folks disagree!

Saw the game online: the hooking call to give Plattsburgh a 5 on 3 makes one wonder....

 

[Had Enough]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Um if there was going to be a 'right team' that the refs would favor, it would most likely be the home team panthers, not Plattsburgh.

No one refs hockey games because they want a certain team to win or because they want to turn a big game into a joke. These guys like hockey as much as the rest of us and generally just want to see a good clean game.

Insinuating the the only reason midd got called for penalties was to favor Plattsburgh is just silly. Penalties aren't just handed out, teams earn them by cheating. If you slash someone down, you're going to get called. There's no obligation to call penalties evenly both ways if one team is earning them and the other is not.

One to7: Fair enough. I see your are from out West. Apparently the officials in your region are capable, fair, consistent, skilled, professional, etc. I am jealous. Read this whole thread over again. We in the East (far East if you will) are not as blessed as you are. We have some good ones for sure. There are unfortunately some that are not so good and are notorious for becoming too "involved" in the games that they are officiating. Unfortunately the availability of officials in our area is apparently not good so there isn't a lot of turnover. This makes it tough to weed out the poor performers.

 

[one_to7]

Re: Refs absent without leave

I lived in the east until last year.

If you honestly think the refs in any level are out to punish 'the wrong team' then there's not really much point in argueing, because you've made up your mind.

There are some refs that are better or worse than others. Even the best refs will miss calls. That doesn't mean they're out trying to screw over a team or make sure another one wins.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Refs absent without leave

I lived in the east until last year.

If you honestly think the refs in any level are out to punish 'the wrong team' then there's not really much point in argueing, because you've made up your mind.

There are some refs that are better or worse than others. Even the best refs will miss calls. That doesn't mean they're out trying to screw over a team or make sure another one wins.

Unless you have Bob Baldwin. Who actually did screw over Elmira every chance he got

 

[norm1909]

Re: Refs absent without leave

I lived in the east until last year.

If you honestly think the refs in any level are out to punish 'the wrong team' then there's not really much point in argueing, because you've made up your mind.

There are some refs that are better or worse than others. Even the best refs will miss calls. That doesn't mean they're out trying to screw over a team or make sure another one wins.

Well put. Though it is frustrating to have to live through a game with some of the "worse than others"

 

[CardinalSin]

Re: Refs absent without leave

while I have had frustration with the officiating at times , I cant imagine any official trying to favor or hurt a team as a whole .

Having said that : an individual player may get a reputation that could cause an official to be on guard or watch a little more closely for potential infractions. I believe that happens

I guess it could work on a team basis too ,if a team doesnt recieve a high number of penalties on average does it then afford them a little leniency.

we can debate for centuries on this one

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Refs absent without leave

while I have had frustration with the officiating at times , I cant imagine any official trying to favor or hurt a team as a whole .

Having said that : an individual player may get a reputation that could cause an official to be on guard or watch a little more closely for potential infractions. I believe that happens

I guess it could work on a team basis too ,if a team doesnt recieve a high number of penalties on average does it then afford them a little leniency.

we can debate for centuries on this one

I hear ya, but 2 games ago at the CC in Oz vs. Platts I thought Murphy was gonna come out for the third periods with a red jersey on........wake up Murphy your missing a good game!!!!!!!!

 

[Irishdave]

Re: Refs absent without leave

Um if there was going to be a 'right team' that the refs would favor, it would most likely be the home team panthers, not Plattsburgh.

No one refs hockey games because they want a certain team to win or because they want to turn a big game into a joke. These guys like hockey as much as the rest of us and generally just want to see a good clean game.

Insinuating the the only reason midd got called for penalties was to favor Plattsburgh is just silly. Penalties aren't just handed out, teams earn them by cheating. If you slash someone down, you're going to get called. There's no obligation to call penalties evenly both ways if one team is earning them and the other is not.

Excellent post

 

[ColdInRomney]

Re: Refs absent without leave

The refs at the Bowdoin vs. Oswego game were rudely dismissed from the ice after the first period. Two 5 on 3's, plus the first Bowdoin goal was scored off (what most people saw as) a hand pass in the offensive zone. In the second period the refs got out of the way and we all saw what happend then.

I realize that there were a number of additional competing factors, but they sure were two different periods.