Realignment Rumors

[PhatKroger10]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Honestly though, I couldn't imagine that power conference without a couple traditionally not as good schools though. Could you really imagine the NCAA tournament without any of those 6 teams? I was thinking maybe MTU, LSSU, Bowling Green (is it ok to still call them BGSU?) or maybe UMD (though that would break the potential Minnesota conference).

 

[bronconick]

Re: Realignment Rumors

In other words, "Follow the money."

Yeah. Football and football TV money. Football that gets played on the Big Ten Network, for example. What channel will Denver University football be on?

Exactly. It exists just as much as your leprechaun's pot of gold you're handing out travel costs with.

 

[peten16]

Re: Realignment Rumors

As a Notre Dame fan, I have to disagree with this sentiment (and I would be willing to bet I'm not alone in the ND...or the Miami...camp for that matter). I love playing all the teams in the league and don't look past any one team or am arrogant enough to think my team can always "beat up on" anyone else.

Well sure, you never look past, them. But yet you do tend to beat the pants off any of those remaining teams in the CCHA. This is s fact: With UM gone you guys are have an undeniably better chance at an auto bid every year. Do not think your AD is not aware of that.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Well sure, you never look past, them. But yet you do tend to beat the pants off any of those remaining teams in the CCHA. This is s fact: With UM gone you guys are have an undeniably better chance at an auto bid every year. Do not think your AD is not aware of that.

But with "inferior competition" (I'm not saying that WILL be the case, I'm just buying into the assumption for this purpose) it means it'll be harder for them to get an at-large bid with a weaker SOS. Plus, every AD will tell you they are striving for their school to make the NCAAs. But let's be real; every AD has a price tag that if they got that much more $ over the season for bringing the big boys into their barn, they'd take that over making the NCAA tournament. And I have the feeling that for some AD's, that $ amount is smaller than we'd think.

 

[Rover]

Re: Realignment Rumors

But with "inferior competition" (I'm not saying that WILL be the case, I'm just buying into the assumption for this purpose) it means it'll be harder for them to get an at-large bid with a weaker SOS. Plus, every AD will tell you they are striving for their school to make the NCAAs. But let's be real; every AD has a price tag that if they got that much more $ over the season for bringing the big boys into their barn, they'd take that over making the NCAA tournament. And I have the feeling that for some AD's, that $ amount is smaller than we'd think.

For Notre Dame and to some extent Miami though, they can handle the SOS problem with some good out of conference games. Notre Dame-BC, Notre Dame-Michigan, etc. That negates one problem and even if they lose those games they only have one big competitor for the auto-bid in Miami. In Miami's case they might not have the natural rivalries from other sports to piggyback off of like Notre Dame, but the BTHC has to schedule somebody OOC. They would seem to be a reasonable choice both geographically and if the former CCHA teams in the BTHC want to maintain some links to their former conference mates. Miami also might need to come East every year.

What I don't know about, and maybe somebody has the financials, is what kind of payoff these teams get from their conference tournaments. If nobody's going to watch that now, but say the WCHA or HE is bringing in significantly larger crowds and generating a bigger payday, both of those schools could consider making a jump strictly to chase some dollars. That's entirely plausible IMHO, but we won't know that for awhile.

 

[Almington]

Re: Realignment Rumors

But with "inferior competition" (I'm not saying that WILL be the case, I'm just buying into the assumption for this purpose) it means it'll be harder for them to get an at-large bid with a weaker SOS. Plus, every AD will tell you they are striving for their school to make the NCAAs. But let's be real; every AD has a price tag that if they got that much more $ over the season for bringing the big boys into their barn, they'd take that over making the NCAA tournament. And I have the feeling that for some AD's, that $ amount is smaller than we'd think.

If you win the games you play, you'll get an at large bid. The weaker your overall conference, the smaller your margin for error but you still have to win games. Winning games is the number one key to earning an at large bid. Even with the loss of the B1G schools, I don't think that the drop off will be all that much. The problem would come if the shack up results in having 6 conferences and enough teams folded to drop down to a 12 team NCAA tournament, at which point only 6 at-large bids would exist and then everyone's margin of error would be almost nothing.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Realignment Rumors

But with "inferior competition" (I'm not saying that WILL be the case, I'm just buying into the assumption for this purpose) it means it'll be harder for them to get an at-large bid with a weaker SOS. Plus, every AD will tell you they are striving for their school to make the NCAAs. But let's be real; every AD has a price tag that if they got that much more $ over the season for bringing the big boys into their barn, they'd take that over making the NCAA tournament. And I have the feeling that for some AD's, that $ amount is smaller than we'd think.

And then there are some that would be overjoyed to go .400 in a season.

You're definitely correct about bringing the big boys in. However, there's one thing that is pretty much universal across the board: winning gets butts into the seats. If the team is doing well, even if it means pulling your first winning season in quite a while, that will bring more people to your home location. That means more cash from tickets, which means local companies are more willing to advertise, which means more money there. For the most part, it can start with an amazing recruit or two.

 

[giwan]

Re: Realignment Rumors

And then there are some that would be overjoyed to go .400 in a season.

You're definitely correct about bringing the big boys in. However, there's one thing that is pretty much universal across the board: winning gets butts into the seats. If the team is doing well, even if it means pulling your first winning season in quite a while, that will bring more people to your home location. That means more cash from tickets, which means local companies are more willing to advertise, which means more money there. For the most part, it can start with an amazing recruit or two.

Winning a lot does solve lots of problems. My understanding the Penn State club team wins at a high rate that they can charge for their games. Granted maybe only a buck or two but still charge for a club team? Get your program to win and worry about the "big boys" later.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Winning a lot does solve lots of problems. My understanding the Penn State club team wins at a high rate that they can charge for their games. Granted maybe only a buck or two but still charge for a club team? Get your program to win and worry about the "big boys" later.

People won't just show up for "the big boys". When RPI had Brandon Pirri and Jerry D'Amigo, the attendance rates still weren't necessarily all that good, maybe an average of about 2500. But we had a winning record that year (first one in 6 years), people saw that, and we started going up in attendance, this past year I'd say an average of about 3000.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Realignment Rumors

For Notre Dame and to some extent Miami though, they can handle the SOS problem with some good out of conference games. Notre Dame-BC, Notre Dame-Michigan, etc. That negates one problem and even if they lose those games they only have one big competitor for the auto-bid in Miami. In Miami's case they might not have the natural rivalries from other sports to piggyback off of like Notre Dame, but the BTHC has to schedule somebody OOC. They would seem to be a reasonable choice both geographically and if the former CCHA teams in the BTHC want to maintain some links to their former conference mates. Miami also might need to come East every year.

What I don't know about, and maybe somebody has the financials, is what kind of payoff these teams get from their conference tournaments. If nobody's going to watch that now, but say the WCHA or HE is bringing in significantly larger crowds and generating a bigger payday, both of those schools could consider making a jump strictly to chase some dollars. That's entirely plausible IMHO, but we won't know that for awhile.

That sentence is just wrong...I think its four team race for the Conference title: Notre Dame, Miami, Western Michigan, Northern Michigan.

 

[moose97]

Re: Realignment Rumors

For Notre Dame and to some extent Miami though, they can handle the SOS problem with some good out of conference games. Notre Dame-BC, Notre Dame-Michigan, etc. That negates one problem and even if they lose those games they only have one big competitor for the auto-bid in Miami. In Miami's case they might not have the natural rivalries from other sports to piggyback off of like Notre Dame, but the BTHC has to schedule somebody OOC. They would seem to be a reasonable choice both geographically and if the former CCHA teams in the BTHC want to maintain some links to their former conference mates. Miami also might need to come East every year.

If you win the games you play, you'll get an at large bid. The weaker your overall conference, the smaller your margin for error but you still have to win games. Winning games is the number one key to earning an at large bid. Even with the loss of the B1G schools, I don't think that the drop off will be all that much. The problem would come if the shack up results in having 6 conferences and enough teams folded to drop down to a 12 team NCAA tournament, at which point only 6 at-large bids would exist and then everyone's margin of error would be almost nothing.

Bemidji State '09-'10.

One could make the argument that they won 3 important games all year, and that's about it. They beat Miami (eventual #1 overall) and swept UMD (#1 at the time even though they missed the NCAA's). Overall, they were 7-5-1 OOC, with a split at a Minnesota team that missed the NCAA's, swept at home by Minn State who finished 9th in the WCHA, plus lost to 8th place CCHA Ohio State. Besides that, they only had wins over Air Force (3rd place AHA team) and a 3 pt. weekend at Northern Michigan (4th in CCHA, but an NCAA team). They dominated the CHA and won a couple key OOC games and ended up an 8 seed in the Pairwise.

BSU, of course, for most of their CHA days benefited from a good relationship (and proximity) with several WCHA schools for scheduling. Notre Dame and Miami could position themselves similarly with the BTHC.

 

[peten16]

Re: Realignment Rumors

That sentence is just wrong...I think its four team race for the Conference title: Notre Dame, Miami, Western Michigan, Northern Michigan.

Northern is inconsistently good. WMU had their first good year in a long while. They are solid, but not premier programs like ND or Miami.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Northern is inconsistently good. WMU had their first good year in a long while. They are solid, but not premier programs like ND or Miami.

He's talking about what it would be without Michigan and MSU in the picture.

Winning a lot does solve lots of problems. My understanding the Penn State club team wins at a high rate that they can charge for their games. Granted maybe only a buck or two but still charge for a club team? Get your program to win and worry about the "big boys" later.

You seem incredulous about charging for club hockey. It's not that shocking. I went to UIUC and I had season tickets for the club team. They were $40. But it's not weird or abnormal for club teams to charge.

 

[peten16]

Re: Realignment Rumors

He's talking about what it would be without Michigan and MSU in the picture.

Yes, but if they are beating them now there is no reason to believe they will not still dominate them after the big boys leave.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Yes, but if they are beating them now there is no reason to believe they will not still dominate them after the big boys leave.

Contrary to whatever you believe, a team could be SWEPT by Miami AND Notre Dame and still win the conference.

 

[yooper(UP) hockey]

Re: Realignment Rumors

If this was to happen; Which league would be the WCHA, new six team league or the left overs.

Wouldnt that mean the Commish of the WCHA would be leaving since he is based out of Denver?

Where would the McNaughton Cup go? What about MTU and UMD? These teams should be invited to the new league.

 

[moose97]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Northern is inconsistently good. WMU had their first good year in a long while. They are solid, but not premier programs like ND or Miami.

At what point did Miami (before their current run of 6 NCAA appearances in the last 7 years and 2 Frozen Fours in that span, the team had just made the NCAA's twice in program history, and made it for the first time as recently as 1993 *) and Notre Dame (4 NCAA's in the last 6 years and only 1 NCAA before that, their first being in 2004 for god's sake!) become premier programs? These programs are very recent (much more recent than Maine, which started making the NCAA's in '87 and won their first champ in '93) in their rise to prominence.


* Cue the Miami is a dynasty link...

 

[giwan]

Re: Realignment Rumors

He's talking about what it would be without Michigan and MSU in the picture.
You seem incredulous about charging for club hockey. It's not that shocking. I went to UIUC and I had season tickets for the club team. They were $40. But it's not weird or abnormal for club teams to charge.

My point is they charge, sellout and all because they WIN. I've seen plenty of club teams not charge because they can't as almost no one shows up anyway. Winning puts people in the seats.

 

[peten16]

Re: Realignment Rumors

Contrary to whatever you believe, a team could be SWEPT by Miami AND Notre Dame and still win the conference.

Anything is possible, both that does not mean it's likely. It would to mean that Miami and ND are getting beat by other (weaker) school the rest of the season. This is an empirical fact, the departure of UM and MSU makes the path to winning the CCHA easier for any team, but the heir apparents right now are MU and ND.

I don't like this any more than you do, I am a proud Lake State Alum who attended during their golden era (89-93).

 

[peten16]

Re: Realignment Rumors

At what point did Miami (before their current run of 6 NCAA appearances in the last 7 years and 2 Frozen Fours in that span, the team had just made the NCAA's twice in program history, and made it for the first time as recently as 1993 *) and Notre Dame (4 NCAA's in the last 6 years and only 1 NCAA before that, their first being in 2004 for god's sake!) become premier programs? These programs are very recent (much more recent than Maine) in their rise to prominence.


* Cue the Miami is a dynasty link...

Right now they are premier programs. The 90's are over. I am not a Miami fan, I am a realist.