Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

[cavbim]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Agreed. I do though dont think it has been 15 years has it??

Look I place the blame in a lot of other places, but the spiral is now over 20 years. HM dates it the Maine loss in the quarters in 1989. Personally my date is the next season. The lose to Brown in the Mayor's cup when Larry Rooney accidently slid the puck past Brad Mullahy or maybe losing the quarters to UNH after winning game 1.

I take that long period of time to suggest there are many other reasons then to solely look at the coach.

By the way Hockey East is now 26 years old

 

[Netman]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

I have followed it for years, just never paid that close attention to that side of it. Hockey east has not been around 35 or 40 years so that taints it a hair. I like everyone else would go to Hockey East playoffs eevry year, and to make sure the box was worth the buck, we always looked for ME/BC/BU/UNH to be the 4.

I believe it has been 25 years that HE has existed. PC last won HE in 1996. In 2001 PC made it to the Garden for the last time.

EDIT: Cav says 26. I do agree there are more problems then the coach. However the coach is responsible for the product on the ice. Therefore, I blame him!

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

I take that long period of time to suggest there are many other reasons then to solely look at the coach.

Like I've written before, I fully agree there's a lot more to this program's overall failings than strictly the coach. And it would be foolish to think that merely axing Army would cure some of the larger problems PC hockey has right now.

At the same time, there is little reason I can see, other than bottom-line economics, to retain a coach who has done absolutely nothing in 5 seasons and whose team has gotten progressively worse each year since he got here.

When he first came in, I recall having conversations with many that after 3 seasons we should have a good idea of where things are going.

We're about to finish 5 seasons with the team having finished dead last in Season 4 and is about to do the same in Season 5.
8 wins in their last 45 Hockey East games. Offensive production that ranks dead last in the league (by a country mile) and with no signs of life -- and this from a coach whose very specialty was supposed to be "offense offense offense"??

If you had said that to me, or anyone, when he was first hired -- how would you have felt?

Now, will another coach have issues here -- again, I agree fully there as well that it's possible. The school needs to reassess where hockey lies in the grand scheme of things. And maybe nobody is going to be truly successful here under these conditions (though at this point would it hurt to try someone, ANYONE, to see if they could?).

I just don't see how retaining this coach is a sign of confidence to prospective players or fans. Of course there are other, major problems above him. But you start with who's controlling what's on the ice, who's recruited what's out there -- Army has been a total failure on every one of those levels. If they keep him around, honestly, to me it's a sign PC has no interest in this program at all. What kind of message does it send?

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Look I place the blame in a lot of other places, but the spiral is now over 20 years. HM dates it the Maine loss in the quarters in 1989. Personally my date is the next season. The lose to Brown in the Mayor's cup when Larry Rooney accidently slid the puck past Brad Mullahy or maybe losing the quarters to UNH after winning game 1.

The 90 year is indeed when things went downhill and the spiral began. (Ugh the Brown game -- and the UNH loss in the Quarters...just devastating). In fact I think you could say that year signaled the real end of an era.

I use 89 as a reference point to the last real time PC was relevant on the national stage...amazing to think it was that long ago. But it was.

 

[The Freds]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

The 90 year is indeed when things went downhill and the spiral began. (Ugh the Brown game -- and the UNH loss in the Quarters...just devastating). In fact I think you could say that year signaled the real end of an era.

I use 89 as a reference point to the last real time PC was relevant on the national stage...amazing to think it was that long ago. But it was.

Context...

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

The 90 year is indeed when things went downhill and the spiral began. (Ugh the Brown game -- and the UNH loss in the Quarters...just devastating). In fact I think you could say that year signaled the real end of an era.

I use 89 as a reference point to the last real time PC was relevant on the national stage...amazing to think it was that long ago. But it was.

At least I'm not to blame. Phew.

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Listen up, folks. What The Freds, Netman and Jon say is the absolute truth, in hockey and in life. If everyone could be like these guys, the world would be a better place.

I'm here to help.

Roboshark would be president. Think about that.

 

[cavbim]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

The 90 year is indeed when things went downhill and the spiral began. (Ugh the Brown game -- and the UNH loss in the Quarters...just devastating). In fact I think you could say that year signaled the real end of an era.

Forgot 2 other points about the Brown game which points to it as thestart of the slide down the slippery slope.

1. We went in ranked #2 in the country, the 2nd highest ranking PC has ever had.
2. Ricky Bennett suffered a Knee injury that while he rushed back he was never the same and the season ended in that UNH disaster.

 

[cavbim]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Now, will another coach have issues here -- again, I agree fully there as well that it's possible. The school needs to reassess where hockey lies in the grand scheme of things. And maybe nobody is going to be truly successful here under these conditions (though at this point would it hurt to try someone, ANYONE, to see if they could?).

Not could---Will. Why would it be any other way. McShane ended up with issues (some his own doing), Pooley had them (though now I actually do think he understood the PC culture better then Army does). Army has had no success. For things to change for another coach you have to change the equation. Which under the circumstances I see is not going to happen. Since I think at best we are now Merrimack all we need to do is look at Merrimack. Dennehy was hired simultaneoulsy to Army. Granted there was a big gap betwenn Merrimack and PC, but Providence barely edged out Mass for 7th place and the gap between 7th and 6th was significant. I believe Serino was forced out before Pooley and despite us hiring Army late for changing coaches, the Merrimack search lasted longer. In the end the best they could shake out of the tree was Dennehy was had a doomed run as Fairfield's coach. 5 years later they sit with only the ability to say they are more competitive then they were Serino's last year. Granted in that time 2 teams each year don't make the playoffs but they have yet to get back to the playoffs. The point is they could not find some known quantity to take the helm, they could not find some hot shot who felt with the resources he could at least make a quick name for himself and move on. PC is now in that positiion (maybe we were in it then but we were determined to switch systems and go big time offense and that was what Army represented. Problem with that was now 5 years out with what else has transpired that was the wrong path and as I've noted before with traps, more defensive minded play and grind it out hockey we are fast moving back to the Pooley system). Hockey is a small community, Army was promised upgrades to the facilities and a "freer" hand to build the team so that it would be more likely he could find more players on a higher level then what Pooley was bringing in. The later I am not sure is a simplistic as saying the school let him down, but based on what he thought he'd get, it led him to gamble by splitting more scholarships then Pooley did and in the end he's got a team of what a lot of split scholarships gets you--a team of 3rd and 4th liners. Ultimately you will have a hard time convincing a coach looking have a successful career that you are serious without giving him those tools and because Army, one of your own wasn't given them you have exactly what reason to believe Shanley and Driscoll when they look the candidate in the eye and tell sure whatever you need?. The pool to replace Army will be small and will look like the Merrimack search. I'm not sure if someone would consider Kleinendorst a serious contender if he wanted it. He was thought to be in '96, but rumor always had it Lou advised his boys to stay away with Smith ascending to the Presidency of the college and his know distaste for putting money into athletics which would be instant death (see Paul Pooley), now he has a far deeper resume then then and he's now with the National Development program. Still his college roots are slim and I really doubt since he had an amiable breakup with the Devils that he'd be advised by Lou to jump in. Shall we say once bitten, twice shy? You hope for a hot shot like PC found back in '68 when PC hired a 27 year old Lamoriello, but go the inexperience route in Hockey East you are just d@mning yourself further. I'm sure you'd all jump for joy if Berard got it but he does understand the disaster that is PC and I get the impression he gets little say in the Army administration. You could move Deraney (I'm trying Jon to see if our pal the Cat chokes up a furball over that) over from the women's side, he actually has some characteristics a school that isn't going to go all out for their program. He understands the idea you have trouble getting top talent to PC, and you develop a system around it, he also does put himself out more to sell PC then Army does (see how the women got the Leary donation for the FOF room). The only other name I come up with is bring Ricky back. He's on the verge of earning a head job and was willing to take a job at Brown if offered for less money then even PC will put on the table and at Union he certainly has learned to deal with adversity and they have built something.

I just don't see how retaining this coach is a sign of confidence to prospective players or fans. Of course there are other, major problems above him. But you start with who's controlling what's on the ice, who's recruited what's out there -- Army has been a total failure on every one of those levels. If they keep him around, honestly, to me it's a sign PC has no interest in this program at all. What kind of message does it send?

Yes I think he is damaged goods when it comes to recruiting players now. However I think rebuilding is the opposite the school shows they are serious players will listen, Tim Army or not. Lou gained no traction till he had Schneider and the hockey gods gifted him with Ron Wilson (simultaneously no less--and even then that did not equal success). I count 23 players on UNH, BC, BU, and Vermont we made a serious pitch for with 4 more then I can think of in the next years. Till he (or any coach) has the tools at hand to show these kids PC is a player you need to go the PC way. Look compettive, try to make the playoffs, and hope for success come playoff time. In Big East play especially in the minor sports that is a doable combination. Usually one school hosts the playoffs (I believe PC hosted the Big East Field Hockey Tourney this year) and if you don't run into the host and they are a high seed at least you are not playing them on their turf and worse yet in a best of 3 series. The other thing to keep in mind from what I've seen PC treats hockey like its on the same level as these minor non revenue Big East sports--the rest of the league takes this as big time athletics. I believe its a fatal combination. Shall we say you reap what you sow

And as always....Go Pirates!!!

 

[The Freds]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Coach Dave Berard is a class act as well and has beena great advocate of the program

Stan Moore has a great hockey name as well.

Rick Bennett is also a great choice.

Sometimes I wonder if Moore should have been the choice five years ago.

 

[cavbim]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Moore did a heck of a job at Colgate and when his name comes up, they all say he is a great hockey guy.

I hope Coach Army can turn it around, it would be a good story.

I could make a list of things I don't like about the past 5 years that most likely would make HM's list look pale. That not really being the point I'll move on to Moore.

In hindsight the first mistake I think Timmy made was bringing Moore back. First Ricky knew the school, knew the culture, knew the kids, knew the obstacles that clearly Army did not being away from the college game so long. Second Moore does not look like he has the fire to me. In all truth the plan to come to PC seems a poorly executed idea. Year 1 he leaves the Mrs up in NY while he does the commute during some weekdays. year 2 she does get a job locally but obviously didn't like since she found a job (I believe at Colby up in Maine). So now we are back to the commute and not being close to a family that is now growing up. I was surprised he returned this year, would be shocked if he remained longer.

Same goes for each job rumored to be looking at, before it gets to deep he has pulled his name from consideration. Merrimack, RPI and 1 I can't think of.

 

[cavbim]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

I dont see it, but if they ever did make a change, they should go after Tom Fitzgerald. Kids from this region would flock to him. He has been involved at younger levels and is very connected to the next pipeline of kids13-18 year olds.. Also tight with USHL guys etc who would psuh kids to him

Nice idea but he has not coached which is a minor drawback though I'm sure plenty would say, "what we've had the last twenty years has been coaching?" However I suspect as a Director of Player Development it would take fairly good size monetary incentive to pull him to college as opposed to the NHL administrative path. At this point I don't see PC making that type of investment into a hockey coach...hence my Merrimack comparison

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Cav- Coach nutty nuttering up things for the MEN's public school cementheads? Whoa! The PU Fryers would be to their arms in desevrings....

Incidentally, I'd like to restate that if Army somehow does turn this around (finding a genie in the bottle. Widespread cheating?) I will build an equestrian statue of him in my living room. Sigh.

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Pshaw!!! Jonny Boy

You certainly won't be making one of that puck whacked ex goalie. See where his charges are going down the crapper

You sir are a blasted nut!!!!!!!!!

must be room in that athetic dept for one as certifiable as you

Ever hear of the cartoon Phineas and Ferb. Maybe the evil Heinz Doofenshmirtz can create some crazy reverse talent gun and point it at the team.

I should build a statue of you in my living room because not only are you right more often than not, but you crack me up.
Never change.

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

I do my best to bring soemthing to those who have nothing

Incorrect. We have the Mayor's Cup.

(sigh)

 

[Jon]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Golly Gee Whiz they banned old '91

For all pathetic hockey from good ole PU there certainly are no whittier fans then Old '91 and Jonny Boy and who can't like the rest of that Fryer cast of characters.

Well in honor of old '91

91 bottles of beer on the wall 91 bottles of beer

see the boys pass them around

now there are no bottles of beer on the wall

sse the Fryer teams have all gone down

One more round!

Yeah I'm sure you want your mayor's cup.

Better than MTV

 

[#1 Friars Fan]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

I couldnt agree anymore.

BU is 6-2(one of the losses to PC) since the beg of the year, with wins vs BC(twice), MC, U Mass(twice) and Northeastern.


It would have been more impressive if we could have said it was vs the 1974 team and had Rick Dipietro play in net for them as well..

Just admit it, no matter what, win or lose you are only going to find and be happy with something negative.

#1 Friars fan is right about one thing when he said , "It’s like being drunk"

That is exactly your impaired intelligence level.

Are you serious…. Impaired intelligence level?
You’re the one up here trying to convince everyone that we should be happy about two wins under a losing coach. You absolutely incorrect that we’re only going to find and be happy with things negative. Many of us couldn’t have been more hopeful and happy when Tim Army was hired and arrived. Unfortunately what we have experienced is a decreasing win count and an increasing loss count. Simply put failure year over year in unacceptable. For many years our season would be summed up on how we performed in the playoff. While we were often disappointed at least we were in the game (so to speak). Now we’re measuring our success by winning a couple of games against noted teams? Come on we’re not even in the hunt for the playoffs never mind being on “The Road to the Garden”! As a true fan, no matter how you want to tap dance around your words and comments, I believe that the current state of this program is simply unacceptable. Impaired intelligence is anyone who tries to rationalize the current state as acceptable.

 

[#1 Friars Fan]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Golly Gee Whiz they banned old '91

Well in honor of old '91

Ahhhhh this should make many smile….. Who is missing purple pants now????????????????

 

[satyking]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Last nite on the local Fox channel news ole Timmy stated that next year is going to be the big one. All his players are a little on the young side right now and we have some good Junior leadership with a good group coming in NEXT year. So for all you guys who have been doubting the master plan here it is .....wait til next year...... sounds familiar but I am sure its different this time

 

[Netman]

Re: Providence - 2009-10 What is in the glass?

Last nite on the local Fox channel news ole Timmy stated that next year is going to be the big one. All his players are a little on the young side right now and we have some good Junior leadership with a good group coming in NEXT year. So for all you guys who have been doubting the master plan here it is .....wait til next year...... sounds familiar but I am sure its different this time

Building on a tie and 2 wins! Next year 2 ties and 4 wins!