Problems for Ford Field?

[streaker]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I am absolutely rooting for this to fail. It is nothing more than a publicity stunt and spits in the face of real college hockey fans who love it for its atmosphere. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's no way I'm spending my hard-earned, recession-weary money on a trip to Detroit, in early April, to see a game that's going to be 100 yards away. Particularly since it'll be on in hi-def.

At this point outdoor and stadium games are money- and publicity-grubbing stunts that abuse the good faith and loyalty of the college hockey fanbase.

OK, it'll get them exposure on ESPN - would it be any more or any less than any other national final? Surely they've calculated the intangible benefit that about 60,000 people will have the opportunity to see the national final who might not have otherwise. But are you really introducing them to the game? They won't even be able to see it, and the real lure of the college game is the intense rivalries, players who care, and an intense fan experience. Ford Field will offer none of that - unless the final is Michigan-MSU. More likely, the game will be two out of town teams like Miami vs BU and it'll be a half-empty morgue. Not to mention the fact that easy ticket availability will kill any buzz.

This is going to be a worse disaster than Anaheim and I am excited to see the NCAA get put in its place on this.


precisely.

That's as logical and sound as a detractor can get. Glad you left the ignorance about the Michigan/MSU fix / Detroit burning/ out of it.

The Detroit area has been maligned (and rightfully so in many cases) for many things, but they have done a good job with the national sporting events that they have held in the recent past...i.e. MLB All Star Game and NFL Super Bowl, not to mention the NCAA basketball tourney games. The venues and activities surrounding them were tremendous for those events. In this case, I agree, unless you are right next to the action, the value is not there, even if our economy would appreciate the boost. Reminds me of when the Pistons played at the Silverdome and held an NBA All-Star game there in the late 70's. It was pathetic because the venue outpriced the average fan into seats that were another time zone from the action, much worse than Ford Field's cheapest seats for the NCAA basketball event.

I think that the NCAA overestimated the appeal of this event based on the outdoor venue attendance. Unless you can guarantee local participation, the event will not come close to attendance expectations. Is that a knock on the area? No. Is it a knock on the popularity of the sport? To a degree. But it is mostly a decision, as Zudnic suggests, based on value and the venue is not going to provide that for fans that are traveling in and have to pay a ton of money to do it.

 

[Dirty]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I oppose the idea that I should have to risk my life in order to attend a hockey game.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

The Frozen Four is a no risk event in any NHL arena in any NHL city. There are 15,000-20,000 die hard fans that will travel anywhere for this event, and it makes money in a 20K arena.

The only schedule problem with Joe Louis Arena is that the Red Wings are scheduled to play there on Wed, April 7th against Columbus, which would force a very quick turnaround to 'clean the venue' to NCAA standards (no advertising etc.) to be ready the next day, as well as probable team practice issues. Perhaps, they can move the Red Wing game to the Palace at Auburn Hills?

The Ford Field idea is (was?) to make the event into a 'spectacle'. Given the Michigan economy, a lot of locals are obviously sitting on the sidelines waiting to see UM or MSU (or even Notre Dame) makes it in, which would ensure that there were at least 30,000 people in the stands. That said, I am sure the organizers are much more pessimistic about the Michigan economy now than they were when the event was awarded to Ford Field.

As much of a traditionalist as I am, I must say that the thought of 40 or 50,000 people at an NCAA hockey Championship is pretty cool, but the idea of just 15,000 or 20,000 people rattling around in a big football stadium is kinda grim and doesn't help the sport.

 

[Chris_NH]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

One issue is how the game comes across to the people in attendance. That issue has been discussed a bit here. The other issue is how the game comes across to the people who aren't there. These are the people tuning in to ESPN to see what...a mostly-empty building? Is that being a 'good ambassador' to the sport?

When I watch sports on TV...NASCAR, baseball, football, etc...I'm cognizant of the crowd size and how 'full' the stadium looks on TV. My eye is always drawn to the seats that are empty, not to the seats that are occupied. And the number of empty seats will dwarf the full ones.

Remember when the New Yankees Stadium opened? All you heard about were the empty seats down along the base lines...not about how the place was appealing and a grand accomplishment etc.

The risk of moving the game now is that they've already sold more tickets than there are seats in the Joe.

 

[Rover]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I agree with what you're getting at, but you imply that DC was a risk. There was no risk at all.

Quite frankly, I don't think there's any risk for the FF by hosting it in an NHL arena and an NHL city - pick just about any one in the country, and with a little promotion and effort from the local organizers, it will be a success.

DC was a bit risky before the fact because its not a hockey town and there's no local team to increase interest. Put it this way, it was more of a risk than going to the usual places like Boston, Milwaukee, Denver, Minny, etc.

Back to Detroit, I'm not sure what the sight lines will be, having never attended a hockey game there. What I do think they ought to do, given the large # of seats available, is drop the price for tickets. That might mitigate some of the concern about bang for the buck. I find it hard to believe hotel rooms are expensive in the area. I mean, its Detroit in April.

Having said all that, what amount of attendance, or to state another way, what % of total available tix sold, will have to be achieved for people to consider the event a success? Lets say 70 thousand seats are available. If they get 50K in there, that's a big success in my book. They would have easily doubled the highest attendance ever for the event. How you define that goes a long way towards how you feel about this venue.

I have no idea what the natural appeal for this event is, as it seems to be growing year by year. My non-scientific analysis says they should be able to get 25K in a normal year (as in its not in a logistically hard to reach place like Anaheim). So again if they can double that # with the benefit of a local participant it works, for this one time only try. You'll never know how popular the sport is until you start putting it out there more. I completely agree with PGB's point about doing this to benefit existing programs. BSU's run last year told all schools they have a chance to get some exposure that their schools would otherwise never achieve. That fact coupled with growing attendance at the national tournament might encourage more schools to put more resources into their programs.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

Scratch that idea on moving the Red Wing game to the Palace at Auburn Hills - the Pistons are playing there on April 7th.

 

[PGB]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I oppose the idea that I should have to risk my life in order to attend a hockey game.

I can agree with this one! Metro Detroit is a fine place, but the city itself, on the other hand....

 

[streaker]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

The Frozen Four is a no risk event in any NHL arena in any NHL city. There are 15,000-20,000 die hard fans that will travel anywhere for this event, and it makes money in a 20K arena.

The only schedule problem with Joe Louis Arena is that the Red Wings are scheduled to play there on Wed, April 7th against Columbus, which would force a very quick turnaround to 'clean the venue' to NCAA standards (no advertising etc.) to be ready the next day, as well as probable team practice issues. Perhaps, they can move the Red Wing game to the Palace at Auburn Hills?

The Ford Field idea is (was?) to make the event into a 'spectacle'. Given the Michigan economy, a lot of locals are obviously sitting on the sidelines waiting to see UM or MSU (or even Notre Dame) makes it in, which would ensure that there were at least 30,000 people in the stands. That said, I am sure the organizers are much more pessimistic about the Michigan economy now than they were when the event was awarded to Ford Field.

As much of a traditionalist as I am, I must say that the thought of 40 or 50,000 people at an NCAA hockey Championship is pretty cool, but the idea of just 15,000 or 20,000 people rattling around in a big football stadium is kinda grim and doesn't help the sport.

I doubt that JLA/Ilitch will move a Wings game for this event, especially if they have to move to the Palace. The last game I attended at the Palace was a Mich/Notre Dame Game in 2007 and the ice was horrific. The Palace would probably love to host the event, even though the Pistons probably will be closing out their regular season.

JLA/Ilitch does the minimum for their sanctioned NCAA hockey events like the GLI tourney and the CCHA championships, so the thought of them being displaced is slim and none.

 

[streaker]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I can agree with this one! Metro Detroit is a fine place, but the city itself, on the other hand....

Don't feed the Hoth.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

At first I was a naysayer when they first announced having the Frozen Four in Football Stadium. I finally came to the realization that this is the biggest chance to grow the sport. If the hockey championship can reach the attendance level of the two biggest sports in the college world, it will have a great chance of catching the eyes of larger universities. They may see it as a promising potential new market their athletic departments could enter.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I oppose the idea that I should have to risk my life in order to attend a hockey game.

You made it thru the GLI last year just fine Dirty.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

The NCAA could also sell a bunch of discounted tickets to the schools that make the FF. I'm sure if schools that have never won it before where to get in then they would be able to offload thousands at once from schools like UNH, NU, or UMASS.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

Fine. Is part of that allure the fact that no one is looking to add the sport and that there are probably several existing teams hanging by a thread? That there are more have-nots than haves? I hope you like Division I with 58 teams (and SHRINKING). I hope you don't mind when TV coverage of an NCAA tournament game gets preempted by a regular season lacrosse game. But, to try to approach the excitement level in southeast Michigan last year for the Basketball Final Four was something I think was worth aiming for.

I understand the allure of college hockey. The bands, the student sections, the intensity of the game, the relative purity of the game (vs. pro hockey). What I can't understand is why trying to gain greater exposure for this great game is a bad thing.

I concede that there is an upside to greater exposure. It's just not, in my personal opinion, outweighed by the downside. As the pie expands, the gap between the haves and the have-nots only continues to grow. The reason that there can be a story like BSU is because there are only 58 teams. If the Big 12, SEC, and PAC-10 start playing hockey, the cinderellas of tomorrow will be BC, BU, and Minnesota, and they'll be playing that role to the favorites from Texas, Florida, and USC. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little for dramatic effect, but that's certainly not even the direction I'd like to see college hockey going.

So what if the national championship might someday be played between Qunnipiac and Western Michigan in a packed barn of 10,000 fans screaming their heads off and chanting along with the bands? In what way is that a bad thing?

 

[Dirty]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

You made it thru the GLI last year just fine Dirty.

Especially amazing given I was being driven around in a Lexus.

 

[Rover]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

So what if the national championship might someday be played between Qunnipiac and Western Michigan in a packed barn of 10,000 fans screaming their heads off and chanting along with the bands? In what way is that a bad thing?

I think that ship sailed a long, long time ago.

One thing I miss about college hockey is that you now have to plan way in advance to get tickets or you're scrambling come championship time if you wait to see if your team is in the FF. A larger arena helps mitigate that a little. A lot of people are thinking worse case scenario in Detroit. Some things (murders, muggings, etc) will happen out there, but others (all small schools making it, 60,000 empty seats) most likely will not. Think of what would happen if say a Michigan team, or Minny, etc made it vs an Eastern team. Normally you'd be $#%& out of luck trying to get tickets if you were a BU, BC, Vermont, whoever fan. This way you've got a lot better chance. If the NCAA is going to err on a site, I'd rather have it be wrong by going to a too big arena than a too small one. Nothing would be worse than fans trying to get tickets because their team made it for the first time in their memory, but being shut out because the venue is too small. 10K arenas are for the regionals now.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I think that ship sailed a long, long time ago.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought that *could* happen - it's probably even less likely than my other scenario of Florida-USC for the national title! I just don't see anything wrong with it, assuming that the 10,000 seats was commensurate with demand (which is also not going to happen).

 

[Rover]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I didn't mean to imply that I thought that *could* happen - it's probably even less likely than my other scenario of Florida-USC for the national title! I just don't see anything wrong with it, assuming that the 10,000 seats was commensurate with demand (which is also not going to happen).

Fair enough. I used to be of the mindset that I only wanted bigger schools to pick up the sport. Now I'm okay with any school willing to support the program with the full allotment of scholarships and a facility that doesn't resemble a high school rink or an airplane hanger.

What I would like to see (but also won't count on) is if a string of well attended Frozen Four's would get programs with some strategic advantages to start up (Pitt, Penn St, Navy, URI, etc). God help me, but I'd even put up with a FF in freakin' Pittsburgh to make that happen.

 

[Zudnic]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

Normally you'd be $#%& out of luck trying to get tickets if you were a BU, BC, Vermont, whoever fan. This way you've got a lot better chance.

I got tickets to the championship game in DC, at face value, day-of. I stopped buying them in advance because they're so easy to come by after the fact. Just my experience. Besides, quadrupling the size of the arena is complete overkill. 16-20k seats is just right for college hockey - keeps tickets scarce and in-demand, but still reasonably available.

 

[pinch]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

I hope it fails... as much as I would like to see the game, I will not go watch it in a football stadium

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Problems for Ford Field?

Scratch that idea on moving the Red Wing game to the Palace at Auburn Hills - the Pistons are playing there on April 7th.

Detroit and Columbus play each other -- it seems -- about 27 times each season. If worse comes to worse, swapping two dates home-and-home could be considered. Its the shortest trip the Wings make anyway and the only team in their conference in the Eastern time zone, so the travel shouldn't be an issue regardless of the schedules surrounding the other scheduled meetings between the two teams.

It is nothing more than a publicity stunt and spits in the face of real college hockey fans who love it for its atmosphere.

Couldn't agree more.

It isn't a choice for me as to whether I want this particular FF to fail or succeed. My guess is that all depends on how one measures success, anyway. I respect NCAA hockey too much to see it subjected to such a cynical grab at publicity for something other than the beauty of our sport.