POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

I think there is a decent percentage, 20% or something like that, who is sick of both parties. Trump(and really the Republican Party overall) being bad doesnt make the Dems good. There has to be a strategy longer term than just ‘we’re not Trump.’

Lordy but this is a tiresome attitude. For most people a lot of what the democrats say, want and do is -- in fact -- GOOD. Both sides are bad is such a lazy argument. Do some heavy lifting once in your life.

I am reading a book about Andrew Johnson's impeachment titled The Impeachers, by Brenda Wineapple. Even in the mid-19th century the idiots were playing the "both sides are bad" argument. In the days leading up to Lincoln takng the oath in 1861 Johnson, then a Senator from Tennessee, railed that the "Northern abolitionist was as fanatical as the Southern seccessionist -- wild extremists bent on destroying the very best government on Earth." One side was dead wrong then, just like one side is dead wrong now.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

*withholdsevidence*

"WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE?!"

They just started the arguments of the day with this. I missed Saturday because I was out. H

Won't call new witnesses.

"This is boring, they just keep saying the same things over and over. We've heard nothing new here."

They boring has made it to 50% wanting removal per Fox pole.
GOP is excellent at keeping all in line because no one thinks or presents an alternative narrative. Dems present so many alternatives, people think and disagree on minutiae and Bob's your Uncle.

I am fully aware that Hillary lost for other reasons, but how well did that work out for her?

The problem is the Dems don't have one candidate that screams to anyone on the fence, "I love that guy/gal!!", and another run on "don't be deplorable" is a failed recipe.

The problem is the Dems present alternatives and people can think what they want.

Holy God- they are reminding them of the oath that they took at the beginning and telling them they are supposed to be impartial. Now they are continuing to lecture the Senators on how to be impartial. They have the balls of a brass monkey. I am in awe. I keep thinking I am no longer shockable re the hypocrisy on the GOP account. I was wrong again.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

The problem is the Dems present alternatives and people can think what they want.

Never been better stated than that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Bob's your Uncle

Is that the Aunt who had balls?

The Dems are a swarm that moves gradually in the right direction. The GOP is a spear hurled with great force in the wrong direction.

A lot of people just get off on the energy and aggression of the throw.

Also: building things is always more time consuming and more difficult than blowing things up. To build you need ages of planning, perseverence, and patience. To destroy you need only a moment's violence.

How many blockbuster movies are there about building things? We all know which is more popular with our ape brains.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

And minutes later we are still hearing about how procedure is the problem. Unfortunately the educated know circular logic for what it is and the people who need to blindly support the Rump are lapping it up.
They will never hear any of the legal minds give argument about what a fallacy this id.

What about the evidence Dudes?

 

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ken Starr, who impeached a President over an extra-marital affair, is now wondering how we got to the "age of impeachment" and warns that impeachment is inherently destabilizing.<br>That GOP couldn't find LITERALLY ANYBODY ELSE to make this argument is amazing.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ImpeachmentTrial?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ImpeachmentTrial</a></p>— Elie Mystal (@ElieNYC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1221861255503392768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Drew S.]

Not buying it. There are a host of D candidates advocating specific policies. Bothsideism is, in my experience, just a rationale for people who prefer to keep trump in office, partly because they are on the wrong side of history and are afraid of change.

I was talking more broadly. Anyone with a brain is going to vote against Trump, but what happens after that?

Too many people are too obsessed with things bring exactly equal. Just because one is less bad than the other doesn’t make it good.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ken Starr, who impeached a President over an extra-marital affair, is now wondering how we got to the "age of impeachment" and warns that impeachment is inherently destabilizing.<br>That GOP couldn't find LITERALLY ANYBODY ELSE to make this argument is amazing.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ImpeachmentTrial?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ImpeachmentTrial</a></p>— Elie Mystal (@ElieNYC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1221861255503392768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not amazing at all. No one in their right mind believes it. You have to find someone who has no integrity or conscience. He ticks all the boxes.

LIstening live and being very glad it is not summer and there are no flies about because my mouth is hanging open at the audacity and absolute illogic of the argument. He is seriously arguing that we shouldn't hold someone accountable because then others may be held accountable.

I want to listen without bias because I don't want to be one of those people who is only able to listen to one side and be blind to the other side- but holy God. I might not make it to even listen much longer. After listening to the arguments presented so far ...

-You took an oath to be impartial- the GOP is tweeting and making statements that say they are not but this is aimed at the evil Dems of the House for being partisan
-previous impeachments were not as partisan as this
- how dare people impeach this man!!
- it is dangerous to impeach people
- Dems will be soooo sorry if this is successful because it might happen again
- impeachment is not political but it is political
- impeachment is protection against those who commit outrage and this isn't it
-impeachment has to be a crime (wonder why the Big D isn't arguing this )

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Just because one is less bad than the other doesn’t make it good.

But it does make it the right choice.

Nobody on the planet is saying "it's 28 degrees, run outside without your coat" is good.

But that's irrelevant because the choice here is "it's 28 degrees, run outside without your coat, THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE."

There is no good. Only better or worse. And the Dems are better times a trillion.

 

[Drew S.]

But it does make it the right choice.

Nobody on the planet is saying "it's 28 degrees, run outside without your coat" is good.

But that's irrelevant because the choice here is "it's 28 degrees, run outside without your coat, THE BUILDING IS ON FIRE."

There is no good. Only better or worse.

Again, you’re talking this election and there is zero disagreement as far as that goes. What comes after that though?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Again, you’re talking this election and there is zero disagreement as far as that goes. What comes after that though?

You know my answer.

<img src="https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--EFWc-bdz--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_191919,e_outline:48/co_191919,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1500736785/production/designs/1757431_0.jpg" height=300>

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Lordy but this is a tiresome attitude. For most people a lot of what the democrats say, want and do is -- in fact -- GOOD. Both sides are bad is such a lazy argument. Do some heavy lifting once in your life.

He's not wrong, on this at least. Even right now you have the leader of the #resistance signing Trump's military budget and begrudgingly supporting impeachment after various purple district house members put a ton of pressure on her. This despite the fact that this is easily the most impeachable president of all time and it would be political malpractice not to do so. This doesn't even get into how people viewed the end of the Obama administration and another status quo dem candidate given that the dems lost the house, senate, presidency, and however many hundreds of state legislature seats.

Obviously one side is the lesser of evils but that can't be the model forever.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Again, you’re talking this election and there is zero disagreement as far as that goes. What comes after that though?

well if the RUmp wins we end up with a non-functioning Government with no accountability, no checks and balances and exec privilege that is so far out of wack that you might as well mint a crown and call it a day- further destruction of government, further deregulation that allows companies to do what they want with no protection for the citizens, the completion of the destruction of our international reputation and probably eventual economic collapse because no one can live on credit forever.

if the Rump loses- Without the evil genius of the Rump there is no one who is the charismatic evil to hold it together the same way- so that should halt the systematic dismantling of all the gov't bodies that allow the country to function. You will have a return to the usual partisanship but the possibility there might be some respect and integrity for the Constitution,

The best thing that could happen for the country would be for him to have a timely medical event that renders him incapable.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Good Afternoon Lodge!

Happy dancing! booked my trip to see my friend on St Croix. W0000000T!!!1!11!!!!

 

[MissThundercat]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Good Afternoon Lodge!

Happy dancing! booked my trip to see my friend on St Croix. W0000000T!!!1!11!!!!

What?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Obviously one side is the lesser of evils but that can't be the model forever.

Of course it can.

It always has been. Every once in a while we get out a little bit in front, like FDR or Martin Luther King, but 99% of progress is a slow, debasing, painful, tedious, unappreciated, unglamorous grind.

The only way to get what you want instantly is despotism, and that isn't worth it no matter the ideal being served. The Right can always be heedless and violent and irresponsible because they don't care what gets broken. We can't. Good is always slow, partial, and frustrating, because it is good. The only thing that is fast, decisive, and satisfying is evil. Anyone who tells you different is hawking fantasy.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

If you have enough people in power to enact better legislation quickly you should do so. Gaining that power will probably take some time I agree but you need someone both at the top and on the ground (grass roots support) who can push things that direction and will it into existence eventually. The problem is in the past the dem party didn't even try, they'd "get things done" by working with Republicans and gutting the social safety net or even trying to cut SS back in 2010 (which is why it's hilarious when people act like Bernie is spreading lies about Biden's SS legacy).

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

What?

whoops- I switched pages but it never went- then it hung on the page forever so I clicked off.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

The best thing that could happen for the country would be for him to have a timely medical event that renders him incapable.

Umm...I think that's already happened.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again

Umm...I think that's already happened.

It was called "birth."