POTUS 46.10: A New Hope

[The Sicatoka]

Interesting proposition....

That is a neat thought experiment thought.... Kind of like Biden bringing on Obama as a VP then resigning...

The "ten year" proposition, but inside out:
A VP can serve out less than two years of a term and still be eligible to serve two full terms of their own.
(If Biden resigned in Feb 2023, Harris could do Biden's last two years and two terms of her own.)

Could Obama do two full then serve out two years?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Yeah, all those black church aunties who showed up for Hillary and even Joe aren't gonna go out of their way do it for Pete. Sad but true.

 

[Kepler]

Bigotries:

Republicans: everybody except white straight cis Christians
Black Democrats: atheists, gays
Blue Dog Democrats: I dunno trans I guess?

 

[RaceBoarder]

How does the Hispanic population play out?

Seems that a good bit tend to be GOP, despite being against their self interests. Is that specifically the Cuban/Caribbean segment where the word "Socialism" is truly toxic because of Castro's influence for 50 years?

Can Dems make inroads with them?

The issue is that a majority of the country seems to be set in their ways for the next 3-4 years, so the bed may already be made...

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I thought a lot of that came from Catholicism/conservatism

 

[RaceBoarder]

I thought a lot of that came from Catholicism/conservatism

That could be a part of it...

I guess I just don't see Hispanics as a deeply religious sector of the population. At least on the level of White Evangelical or Black Gospel folk in the South. With the latter, I think of Church Sundays being a MAJOR part of weekly life. Not so much with Hispanics.

 

[The Sicatoka]

I guess I just don't see Hispanics as a deeply religious sector of the population.

According to the Pew Hispanic survey, 83% of Hispanics claim a religious affiliation, a share slightly higher than that seen among the general public (80%).

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2012/04/04/v-politics-values-and-religion/
Disclaimer: source is ten years old

While the majority of U.S. Hispanics still identify themselves as Roman Catholic, ...

Source: https://oxfordre.com/religion/oso/viewentry/10.1093$002facrefore$002f9780199340378.001.0001$002facrefore-9780199340378-e-79
Disclaimer: six year old data

Anecdote?
Was installing a machine in Omaha a couple years back. The factory workforce was 90% Hispanic. Noon break was set to coincide with noon Mass down the street! As one team lead said: Communion, A/C, and siesta. :-D

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

How does the Hispanic population play out?

Seems that a good bit tend to be GOP, despite being against their self interests.

Honestly I can think of very few voters/voting blocs where voting GQP is IN their self interest. I mean really, who does the republican party actually represent? To me it is a straight, white, self-professed Christian man, but a man who also does not actually live a life that is anywhere near what Jesus would have expected a follower of his to lead. He is hypocritical, close-minded, and believes violence and intimidation are always useful forms of persuasion. That is today's republican.

It is a party that promotes policies that are damaging to women's health and disregards the very notion that women are equal participants in society. It is a party that discriminates against people of color and people who profess either no religion or a religion other than hard right, evangelical Christianity. It promotes policies that not only endanger people who identify as LGBTQ+ but attempts to deny their basic humanity. That covers what, at least 85% of the country?

In truth virtually everyone who votes GQP is voting against not only their own self interest, but against the interests of all people and the very democratic principles on which this country was based. Yet I am pretty sure it will receive far more than 15% of the vote in virtually every election conducted this year. Our problem was never trump. It isn't the people currently serving as republicans in elected office. Our problem is and will remain one thing, US.

 

[Handyman]

Hispanics are quite Catholic which is part of it...but it is also that Hispanics don't exactly like each other. Ask Cubans in Flo(R)ida what they think of Mexicans in Texas sometime. People seem to think since they are all of Latino descent they much at least parallel forgetting that they come from different countries many of whom don't much like each other. Same blindspot people seem to have with different Asian cultures.

 

[French Rage]

Hispanics are quite Catholic which is part of it...but it is also that Hispanics don't exactly like each other. Ask Cubans in Flo(R)ida what they think of Mexicans in Texas sometime. People seem to think since they are all of Latino descent they much at least parallel forgetting that they come from different countries many of whom don't much like each other. Same blindspot people seem to have with different Asian cultures.

Do NOT call a South American a Mexican. They haaaaaate them.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Hispanics are quite Catholic which is part of it...but it is also that Hispanics don't exactly like each other. Ask Cubans in Flo(R)ida what they think of Mexicans in Texas sometime. People seem to think since they are all of Latino descent they much at least parallel forgetting that they come from different countries many of whom don't much like each other. Same blindspot people seem to have with different Asian cultures.

That's a fair point...

Then let's break it down further:

Who are the one's that are voting R? Is it the Cuban/Caribbean segment? Is it the 2nd/3rd Generation of Mexican descendants that have gone full-on "Merica!!! Yea Haw!"

I just can't figure out the logic since many are 1st or 2nd generation US Citizens with direct family back home... The immigration stance is hard to understand how it's not a big deal for them (short of them kind of being NIMBY in that they feel that THEIR sect is OK, but it's all them other lazy/dirty immigrants that cause ALL the problems. Kind of goes with the fact that they don't like each other).

 

[French Rage]

short of them kind of being NIMBY in that they feel that THEIR sect is OK, but it's all them other lazy/dirty [groups] that cause ALL the problems.

Congratulations, you've just identified the entire point of the Republican Party.

 

[Kepler]

How does the Hispanic population play out?

Seems that a good bit tend to be GOP, despite being against their self interests. Is that specifically the Cuban/Caribbean segment where the word "Socialism" is truly toxic because of Castro's influence for 50 years?

Can Dems make inroads with them?

The issue is that a majority of the country seems to be set in their ways for the next 3-4 years, so the bed may already be made...

The Cubans who came to Miami hate Castro because, well, they left Cuba, it's self-selection like American Marxists who moved to the USSR. The rich Cubans under Batista who had their property taken by the dirty peasants hate communism and socialism the way rich dudes always do.

So, you have those reactionary elements, and some of them are powerful enough to influence our whole perception of Cubans (e.g., Ted Cruz' insane father).

Then there are first gen immigrants who tend to be entrepreneurial and attracted to laissez faire. They think they'll escape racism if they become wealthy. They also often have spectacular bigotry themselves against blacks because that was the racial pecking order in the old country. Some of them vote R.

Some super anti-abortion Catholic Latinos also vote R just as super anti-abortion Catholic Whites. So you get a smattering of R there.

Put that all together and you get an overall 35% of so of Latino R, but it isn't really driven by any particular bigotry except that which sweats off Krazy Kristianity.

 

[Handyman]

That's a fair point...

Then let's break it down further:

Who are the one's that are voting R? Is it the Cuban/Caribbean segment? Is it the 2nd/3rd Generation of Mexican descendants that have gone full-on "Merica!!! Yea Haw!"

I just can't figure out the logic since many are 1st or 2nd generation US Citizens with direct family back home... The immigration stance is hard to understand how it's not a big deal for them (short of them kind of being NIMBY in that they feel that THEIR sect is OK, but it's all them other lazy/dirty immigrants that cause ALL the problems. Kind of goes with the fact that they don't like each other).

Look at any culture that is new here be it The Irish when they first arrived, the Italians, the European Jews...hell even various Muslim groups now. (though that is different as there are different immigration guidelines unlike the Ellis Island days)

The first generation tend to be of the "hey we made it WE LOVE AMERICA!" and are filled with all of the Capra-esque love for everything about this country. Sure some of the old grudges come with but hope and the possibility of prosperity bring a sense of profound contentment. Much like others though, the longer they live here the more they change. The ones who become successful resent anyone who they see as not working hard enough. They start to see that as more and more immigrants come (even from their homeland) that those people (just like they did) are filled with hope but as with everything sooner or later opportunity tends to dry up or become harder to realize and the successful start to resent the unsuccessful. "I got mine, fuck you go get yours and struggle like I did" is not just a White thing...greed wins in every culture. (The first guy sees himself as an "America" now and the new immigrant is a freeloader looking to take from him" ) It gets 10x worse when it is cross-cultural. (Those dirty Mexicans coming here illegally trying to take jobs away! We came here to get away from a Authoritarian regime risking life and limb! They crossed a fucking river!)

What's fun is what happens in the next generation. It tends to have 2 characteristics (that often end up working in cahoots even though they shouldn't!) secularization and criminalization. As a teacher at a school that is 70% minority many of whom are first gen born in America I see it a lot. The kids (college students) are almost unrecognizable in language and style from just your average person from America. (outside of color or whatever) They have been completely homogenized and melted into the pot. They also tend to rebel and become enamored with criminal activity more. (like normal youth) Its the same pattern we saw with Irish mobs in the 1800s, Italian and Jewish mobs in the early 1900s and pretty much every group that is out there. As a sociology major in college (stupid U of M not having a true "Pre-Law" Major back then) it is interesting to see in real time. (ask the residents of Minneapolis, where second Gen Somalis are running crazy)

TL;DR: a lot of it is "I got mine not get off your lazy azz and get yours". (add ethnic slurs for cross-cultural hatred)

 

[burd]

How does Washington Heights usually vote?

 

[Kepler]

As a sociology major in college (stupid U of M not having a true "Pre-Law" Major back then) it is interesting to see in real time. (ask the residents of Minneapolis, where second Gen Somalis are running crazy)

My MA is in Sociology, and my all-time favorite sociologists are C. Wright Mills and Robert K. Merton. They wrote voluminously and brilliantly on this based on hardcore empirical research.

 

[Kepler]

How does Washington Heights usually vote?

By abstention.

 

[burd]

As a sociology major in college (stupid U of M not having a true "Pre-Law" Major back then) it is interesting to see in real time. (ask the residents of Minneapolis, where second Gen Somalis are running crazy)

What was unique about "prelaw" curriculum? Heavy on analytical writing mixed with some substantive material?

I was an English major not intending to go to law school but did so after a 13-year hammer-swinging hiatus. English studies seemed a good prep. I sure wasn't an ace at Eng. lit.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

What was unique about "prelaw" curriculum? Heavy on analytical writing mixed with some substantive material?

I was an English major not intending to go to law school but did so after a 13-year hammer-swinging hiatus. English studies seemed a good prep. I sure wasn't an ace at Eng. lit.

I had classes with handy and he and I were def both on that pre-law path! We had a few great professors that were lawyers that taught by far the most interesting classes I had in college

 

[Handyman]

I had classes with handy and he and I were def both on that pre-law path! We had a few great professors that were lawyers that taught by far the most interesting classes I had in college

Yep. White Collar Crime was awesome as was International Law and any course Samaha taught :^)