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POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

While there's no question that Russia had some sort of covert ops going on, I'm skeptical that Trump himself was in on it.

"It was a great covert ops! Yuge! The best covert ops ever!" He wouldn't have been able to keep his mouth shut.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Whether he was part of it or not is largely irrelevant. He definitely benefited from it...
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Whether he was part of it or not is largely irrelevant. He definitely benefited from it...

If he was involved in it, I would have to imagine the penalties/punishment would be worse for him, no?
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

If he was involved in it, I would have to imagine the penalties/punishment would be worse for him, no?

It depends how he was involved. Just having knowledge of it probably wouldnt do much but if he was an active participant then yeah. Someone in the administration knew though...there is too many coincidences over the course of the campaign (and too many random people having conversations with Russians) for it not to be true imho.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll just throw it out there. Is there a U.S. election law that would stop a country, like Russia or Germany or someone from doing what Soros or the Koch boys do --form a PAC, throw a bunch of money into it and start creating ads that might help or hurt a particular candidate? I seem to recall that they can't just give money directly to a candidate or his campaign, but what about independent PAC's?

When you think about, countries like Russia, France, China, etc..., have a great deal at stake in the U.S. elections. Our financial policies, trade policies, etc..., can affect them as much as anyone here.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll just throw it out there. Is there a U.S. election law that would stop a country, like Russia or Germany or someone from doing what Soros or the Koch boys do --form a PAC, throw a bunch of money into it and start creating ads that might help or hurt a particular candidate? I seem to recall that they can't just give money directly to a candidate or his campaign, but what about independent PAC's?

When you think about, countries like Russia, France, China, etc..., have a great deal at stake in the U.S. elections. Our financial policies, trade policies, etc..., can affect them as much as anyone here.

Against the law. I believe that PAC's can't accept foreign donations and neither can candidates.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Against the law. I believe that PAC's can't accept foreign donations and neither can candidates.

I'm sure there are easy ways around this, though. Say you back Trump. Russia buys the rare, lovely geranium in your front yard for $200 million and you donate $2---, er, $175 million to a PAC that funds anti-Hillary ads. Easy peasy.

I assume the way this stuff gets done in OTL is through multi-national shell companies. Gazprom has a Swiss money laundering front that does business with a Caymans money laundering front that has a US subsidiary that donates to the American Socialist White People's PAC (ASWPP) that runs anti-Hillary ads.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

You guys ever listen to Jordan Peterson? He figures we're heading for totalitarian mayhem and destruction, but not "because" of Trump, who is a temporary symptom of the madness. He comes down hard on lazy entitled millennials and identity politics and ideologues of all stripes for very well-thought-out reasons. The overview introduction is his interview with Joe Rogan "the Joe rogan experience #877"
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

You guys ever listen to Jordan Peterson? He figures we're heading for totalitarian mayhem and destruction, but not "because" of Trump, who is a temporary symptom of the madness. He comes down hard on lazy entitled millennials and identity politics and ideologues of all stripes for very well-thought-out reasons. The overview introduction is his interview with Joe Rogan "the Joe rogan experience #877"

The question is whether citizens are engaged and believe in democracy and are willing to face down whatever the generational challenge to it is. Today the generational fight is against a fascist alliance of billionaires and the far right. If we get past that in 2040 it may be something from the far left (bwahahaha).

There's no Final Boss. Democracy has to keep on winning, and it has to win every time. So we need to raise citizens who understand and are committed to democratic values, and who will do the work needed to keep scum like Trump or the Kochs away from our institutions. Nowhere is it written that America is forever. If we stop caring it will fall -- forces have always pushed for plutocracy since 1776, and they'll keep on pushing forever.

I would like to see us, basically, tell the liberals to shut up early in education, and unapologetically restore civics in elementary and middle school, and basically indoctrinate our kids in core American values (they're not hard to explain, they're right there in the Declaration). I'd wait until high school to get into the bad stuff the US has done, and I'd present those things not as intractable systemic problems but as flaws that we overcame or are in the process of overcoming. Slavery does not negate America, because abolition is also part of America.

We should raise all the kids to be right wingers -- the smart ones will figure it out and become left wingers later. That is how it has always worked, in everything from politics to religion. Our problem is we now raise all the kids to always withhold judgment and never adopt any value for fear that value might be exclusionary. This doesn't help the smart ones -- they would have figured it out eventually on their own. But it confuses the dumb ones and makes them very vulnerable to hard core authoritarianism later on.

Most people need a rock to stand on. So give everybody America as their rock. The adventurers who are able to swim on their own power will eventually do so, but this way we're not dooming the vast majority to insecurity that leads inevitably to a pandering ideologue.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll just throw it out there. Is there a U.S. election law that would stop a country, like Russia or Germany or someone from doing what Soros or the Koch boys do --form a PAC, throw a bunch of money into it and start creating ads that might help or hurt a particular candidate? I seem to recall that they can't just give money directly to a candidate or his campaign, but what about independent PAC's?

When you think about, countries like Russia, France, China, etc..., have a great deal at stake in the U.S. elections. Our financial policies, trade policies, etc..., can affect them as much as anyone here.

It's illegal to take foreign money. Just ask Al Gore, who not only made donor support calls from his White House Office (illegal), but also contacted foreign government officials while sitting in his office to request money (double whammy).
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

It's illegal to take foreign money. Just ask Al Gore, who not only made donor support calls from his White House Office (illegal), but also contacted foreign government officials while sitting in his office to request money (double whammy).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just can't take foreign donations if you are a candidate.

But what if I'm a foreign company, maybe even connected with the foreign government, and I just decide I want to buy a bunch of commercials during the the campaign that advocates supporting NAFTA, for instance, or easing sanctions on North Korea. Can they do that?
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Alabama. Another lost state that is 100% in the GOP column. And look at who they elect to office.

When it comes to the state’s elected leaders, it’s been a rough 10 months for Alabama. In June, Mike Hubbard (R), the state’s former House Speaker, was forced to resign in disgrace after being convicted of multiple felonies. Last month, Robert Bentley (R), the state’s then current governor, was forced to resign as part of a plea agreement in the wake of his sex/corruption scandal.

And then there’s state Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore (R). The Alabama Media Group reported yesterday:

The Alabama Supreme Court today upheld the decision that removed Roy Moore from his position as chief justice. […]

Moore can’t appeal the ruling to the federal courts because there are no federal issues. “This is it,” he said.

Moore’s term on the state bench wasn’t up until 2019, but the suspension is effective immediately, and it has the effect of ending his judicial career. Because of his age, AL.com’s report added, “he cannot run for the office again.”

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...test-alabama-republican-fall?cid=sm_fb_maddow
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just can't take foreign donations if you are a candidate.

But what if I'm a foreign company, maybe even connected with the foreign government, and I just decide I want to buy a bunch of commercials during the the campaign that advocates supporting NAFTA, for instance, or easing sanctions on North Korea. Can they do that?

That is an excellent question. A direct connection to that question, a US-based multi-national company makes donations to a presidential candidate with the idea that he'll help smooth relations with a foreign power in which that company has a large presence, how would that sit in front of a judge or jury, if they're not careful in how they handle these things?


...Completely hypothetical, of course.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Alabama. Another lost state that is 100% in the GOP column. And look at who they elect to office.

To be fair, I'm not sure all the felonies are a Republican thing. Maybe more just an Alabama thing. :p

But yeah, one-party states are like that. It just means the national party is so hated by the population of the state that the state party can't break through. As soon as you put that letter next to the candidate, they're dead. D in AL, R in CA.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

So, the state of Alabama is 1960's Chicago. Nice.

Years ago a history teacher of mine told me that we need to learn history so we don't repeat it. My entire life I've watched politics from the sidelines and I've seen history repeated over and over and over again.

To coin a twitter phrase from our current President of the Untied States. SAD!
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Years ago a history teacher of mine told me that we need to learn history so we don't repeat it. My entire life I've watched politics from the sidelines and I've seen history repeated over and over and over again.

To coin a twitter phrase from our current President of the Untied States. SAD!

I guess we've finally answered Dubya's famous question: is our children learning?
 
The question is whether citizens are engaged and believe in democracy and are willing to face down whatever the generational challenge to it is. Today the generational fight is against a fascist alliance of billionaires and the far right. If we get past that in 2040 it may be something from the far left (bwahahaha).

There's no Final Boss. Democracy has to keep on winning, and it has to win every time. So we need to raise citizens who understand and are committed to democratic values, and who will do the work needed to keep scum like Trump or the Kochs away from our institutions. Nowhere is it written that America is forever. If we stop caring it will fall -- forces have always pushed for plutocracy since 1776, and they'll keep on pushing forever.

I would like to see us, basically, tell the liberals to shut up early in education, and unapologetically restore civics in elementary and middle school, and basically indoctrinate our kids in core American values (they're not hard to explain, they're right there in the Declaration). I'd wait until high school to get into the bad stuff the US has done, and I'd present those things not as intractable systemic problems but as flaws that we overcame or are in the process of overcoming. Slavery does not negate America, because abolition is also part of America.

We should raise all the kids to be right wingers -- the smart ones will figure it out and become left wingers later. That is how it has always worked, in everything from politics to religion. Our problem is we now raise all the kids to always withhold judgment and never adopt any value for fear that value might be exclusionary. This doesn't help the smart ones -- they would have figured it out eventually on their own. But it confuses the dumb ones and makes them very vulnerable to hard core authoritarianism later on.

Most people need a rock to stand on. So give everybody America as their rock. The adventurers who are able to swim on their own power will eventually do so, but this way we're not dooming the vast majority to insecurity that leads inevitably to a pandering ideologue.
Peterson finds a lot of value in how the archetypal stories (like every religion and Harry Potter and Pinocchio) explore the human condition. The apocalypse and redemption are always present at every level - from the individual psyche to the global future. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the interview.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Book burning, 21st century version.

Dow Chemical is pushing a Trump administration open to scrapping regulations to ignore the findings of federal scientists who point to a family of widely used pesticides as harmful to about 1,800 critically threatened or endangered species.

Lawyers representing Dow, whose CEO is a close adviser to Trump, and two other manufacturers of organophosphates sent letters last week to the heads of three of Trump's Cabinet agencies. The companies asked them "to set aside" the results of government studies the companies contend are fundamentally flawed.

Dow Chemical wrote a $1 million check to help underwrite Trump's inaugural festivities, and its chairman and CEO, Andrew Liveris, heads a White House manufacturing working group.

The industry's request comes after EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt announced last month he was reversing an Obama-era effort to bar the use of Dow's chlorpyrifos pesticide on food after recent peer-reviewed studies found that even tiny levels of exposure could hinder the development of children's brains.

Be proud, conservatives. So very, very proud.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

I'm sure there are easy ways around this, though. Say you back Trump. Russia buys the rare, lovely geranium in your front yard for $200 million and you donate $2---, er, $175 million to a PAC that funds anti-Hillary ads. Easy peasy.

I assume the way this stuff gets done in OTL is through multi-national shell companies. Gazprom has a Swiss money laundering front that does business with a Caymans money laundering front that has a US subsidiary that donates to the American Socialist White People's PAC (ASWPP) that runs anti-Hillary ads.

True but that isnt what SJHovey asked. I dont think the Russians could start a SuperPac.
 
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