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POTUS 45.65: I'm Just Here For The Lincoln Project Ads

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If he can tell people he won some fake Man of the Year award in Michigan and no one calls him on it, he can declare victory around 10pm and then when ballots are actually counted against him, he will cry about fraud.

A friend of mine is a pollster for USA Today and this is his projection of what will happen:

​​​​​​​Possible Election Night pendulum and beyond:
7:30-9:30 Biden opens up a big early lead
9:30-11:30 Trump overtakes Biden in selected states
AM hours and following days:
Complete count of mail-ins give Biden momentum
Then lawsuits and litigation!
"Send lawyers, guns, and money, the sh*t has hit the fan"
 
I’m not an EC expert by any means but we could have shenanigans where states Biden won send their own R electors to vote for dump in the electoral vote, right? I feel like I read that as a fear about Florida in particular

They'd better not. I don' t have time in my calendar for a march on Tallahassee.
 
So, the Texas dispute, if I understand it correctly, is actually a really interesting one. If someone has some corrections to my facts, let me know as that could change my opinion, but I think I understand the dispute.

By the way, the Texas dispute also illuminates what I was talking about earlier, which is that we run into problems when we have Clerks and other government officials who just decide, perhaps with good intent, to make up new rules.

Here is what I understand has happened in Harris County.

Texas election law says that you must cast a ballot at a "voting station" in a "polling place." However, you can request a "curbside ballot" if you suffer from a disability that would limit your ability to access the polling station without assistance, or if doing so exposes the voter to a likelihood of injury.

The Harris County elections clerk, probably due to Covid, decided on his own to erect a series of drive thru "tents" where people can drive up and presumably fill out or drop off their ballot. Many, many people have already done so.

Some Republicans in Texas have challenged the votes cast in these tents as votes not cast in compliance with Texas election law. Basically, the argument centers around whether these tents, with the personal cars in them, are a "polling place" or "voting station" under Texas law, and that further, if they are, then the County is not complying with other rules that govern voting stations, such as a rule that persons be in there alone (except for a minor child or interpreter.)

Is that what you understand the factual dispute and arguments to be?

It sounds like the Texas Supreme Court rejected these arguments and will allow the votes to be counted, although apparently there is a federal court case where the same arguments will be heard this week.

So again, this is a "problem" that is created by a bureaucrat deciding, on his or her own, how things should be done when they really didn't have the authority to do so.

But that said, I would probably rule (if I were in charge) that the votes should count, for these reasons:

1. I would guess that the terms "voting station" and "polling place" are defined broadly enough, or could be interpreted broadly enough, to allow voting in these tents, so long as the county is regulating or keeping watch over these tents in the same way as they might inside a high school gym.

2. Since the law allows a request for a "curbside" ballot if there is a "likelihood of injury" I assume that a judge could conclude that participating in the drive thru process constitutes a "request" and that possible covid infections in large crowds meets the "likelihood of injury" requirement, although I confess I have no idea what Texas law requires for purposes of either a "request" or proving "likelihood of injury." But my guess is its a pretty low standard, and in the past anyone who has asked for a curbside ballot has probably been given one.

3. I don't think the arguments that the personal cars, in the tents, are not properly treated as voting stations goes anywhere because I doubt that when people request a curbside ballot they are denied if someone else happens to be in the car.

But, I admit it'll be interesting to see which way the final court decisions go on this issue.

That is a pretty good summary. It wasnt just the Republican Controlled Texas Supreme Court but the Governor (also Republican) had no issue with the curbside voting as well.

If this was a month ago and the GOP was challenging it might be more palatable to people since the aggrieved would have an opportunity to make up a vote they made in good faith. They can't now so throwing away their vote is a violation of their right to vote. Unless they can prove fraud in the vote itself or there is a security concern there is never a legit reason to throw out a vote that is cast in accordance with the rules.

The other problem I have is I dont believe it was the Founder's intent that only State Legislatures could make the rules. Because of this stuff I have gone back and read and I think that is a rather narrow interpretation of the law. I am not saying they shouldn't be part of the process but they should not be the only voice on this.
 
I’m not an EC expert by any means but we could have shenanigans where states Biden won send their own R electors to vote for dump in the electoral vote, right? I feel like I read that as a fear about Florida in particular

Yes that can happen...it is a gambit they have been looking into I believe in GA and FL. That would lead to a Constitutional Crisis because Pelosi will challenge all of the Electors that do that...and lets just say it gets very friggin messy.

Stuff Like This Has Happened Before
 
Yes that can happen...it is a gambit they have been looking into I believe in GA and FL. That would lead to a Constitutional Crisis because Pelosi will challenge all of the Electors that do that...and lets just say it gets very friggin messy.

Stuff Like This Has Happened Before

Yeah 1876 was completely different. You had a backwards party that stood for old ridiculous values that was trying to threaten minorities from not voting in the South and I forgot where I was going with this.
 
We wait with baited breath.

He posted it 40 minutes before this post...try to keep up.

The only difference in the polling place that I voted at and the drive through ones are I walked in vs. drove in. Texas allows for temporary structures to be used as polling places. This should be a no-brainer.
 
What exactly is "this" in your question? Rules? Only liberal voters are impacted by rules?

The comment in question:

You want to know what I wonder? I wonder why all these liberals with these huge brains we keep hearing about have such a surprisingly difficult time with a very, very simple task...

You don't need to try and waterboard me with a wall of useless text this time - consider the question rhetorical at this point.
 
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So, the Texas dispute, if I understand it correctly, is actually a really interesting one. If someone has some corrections to my facts, let me know as that could change my opinion, but I think I understand the dispute.

By the way, the Texas dispute also illuminates what I was talking about earlier, which is that we run into problems when we have Clerks and other government officials who just decide, perhaps with good intent, to make up new rules.

Here is what I understand has happened in Harris County.

Texas election law says that you must cast a ballot at a "voting station" in a "polling place." However, you can request a "curbside ballot" if you suffer from a disability that would limit your ability to access the polling station without assistance, or if doing so exposes the voter to a likelihood of injury.

The Harris County elections clerk, probably due to Covid, decided on his own to erect a series of drive thru "tents" where people can drive up and presumably fill out or drop off their ballot. Many, many people have already done so.

Some Republicans in Texas have challenged the votes cast in these tents as votes not cast in compliance with Texas election law. Basically, the argument centers around whether these tents, with the personal cars in them, are a "polling place" or "voting station" under Texas law, and that further, if they are, then the County is not complying with other rules that govern voting stations, such as a rule that persons be in there alone (except for a minor child or interpreter.)

Is that what you understand the factual dispute and arguments to be?

It sounds like the Texas Supreme Court rejected these arguments and will allow the votes to be counted, although apparently there is a federal court case where the same arguments will be heard this week.

So again, this is a "problem" that is created by a bureaucrat deciding, on his or her own, how things should be done when they really didn't have the authority to do so.

But that said, I would probably rule (if I were in charge) that the votes should count, for these reasons:

1. I would guess that the terms "voting station" and "polling place" are defined broadly enough, or could be interpreted broadly enough, to allow voting in these tents, so long as the county is regulating or keeping watch over these tents in the same way as they might inside a high school gym.

2. Since the law allows a request for a "curbside" ballot if there is a "likelihood of injury" I assume that a judge could conclude that participating in the drive thru process constitutes a "request" and that possible covid infections in large crowds meets the "likelihood of injury" requirement, although I confess I have no idea what Texas law requires for purposes of either a "request" or proving "likelihood of injury." But my guess is its a pretty low standard, and in the past anyone who has asked for a curbside ballot has probably been given one.

3. I don't think the arguments that the personal cars, in the tents, are not properly treated as voting stations goes anywhere because I doubt that when people request a curbside ballot they are denied if someone else happens to be in the car.

But, I admit it'll be interesting to see which way the final court decisions go on this issue.

This is a genuinely thoughtful and thorough post. Thank you.
 
I’m not an EC expert by any means but we could have shenanigans where states Biden won send their own R electors to vote for dump in the electoral vote, right? I feel like I read that as a fear about Florida in particular

Dueling elector slates. Say Biden wins FL (trying to pick the most corrupt possible state for the example) and the FL Republicans say f-ck it and forward their own slate. They will concoct REASONS, which will have no merit but if they can get a favorable Court ruling then it doesn't matter. SCOTUS is infallible because it is last.

Maybe Roberts splits the difference and throws out both slates, the Ultimate Both Siderism. They still deny Biden the EV that way.

Assume nothing but malevolence coming from Dump in particular, the Republicans broadly, and "conservatives" in general.
 
Bated.

Unless you were making a (pretty good actually) joke.

I'm going to be honest, when I saw that in his post, and given rufus' history of insults he's directed in my direction, I really, really wanted to respond. And I had some good responses. But I declined, because, well, what's the point.
 
Dueling elector slates. Say Biden wins FL (trying to pick the most corrupt possible state for the example) and the FL Republicans say f-ck it and forward their own slate. They will concoct REASONS, which will have no merit but if they can get a favorable Court ruling then it doesn't matter. SCOTUS is infallible because it is last.

Maybe Roberts splits the difference and throws out both slates, the Ultimate Both Siderism. They still deny Biden the EV that way.

Assume nothing but malevolence coming from Dump in particular, the Republicans broadly, and "conservatives" in general.

I am not sure the SC has the authority to decide when it comes to the Electors but who knows. Everything seems so contradictory when I research it.
 
He posted it 40 minutes before this post...try to keep up.

The only difference in the polling place that I voted at and the drive through ones are I walked in vs. drove in. Texas allows for temporary structures to be used as polling places. This should be a no-brainer.

Look, I don't spend every waking minute on this board like some people.
 
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I am not sure the SC has the authority to decide when it comes to the Electors but who knows. Everything seems so contradictory when I research it.

Who is to stop them?

If SCOTUS says they can do something, they can do it. They don't need a reason. Everything we learned about law posits that the people in charge are acting sincerely. Now we have a highest Court that is a bag man. It will do what it wants to do.
 
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