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POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

The Sicatoka said:
Either Trump knows they have nothing (meaning he's clean and the tap proves the witchhunt meme he's pushing) or this is the most power laden game of chicken in American history.
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You actually, and scarily, might be onto something....
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

I could see a hypothetical scenario (game of chicken) where DOJ has something, but something they shouldn't have: If they expose it they nail Trump but show that they themselves break the law and the integrity of the FBI and DOJ is gone forever. If they don't Trump wins.

So, in that scenario, Trump doesn't fold, he calls, and forces the other side to either show their (dealt from the bottom) cards or fold.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

dxmnkd316 said:
The libertarians are just republicans rebranded. It's like when Comcast started calling themselves Xfinity.

The libertarian friends I know aren't up in arms about anything except that Sessions may be going after their precious weed. They're just stoner washouts from the Reublican party who don't care as long as they get theirs. It's a useless movement.
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There used to be real Libertarians out there. The Koch wing of plutocrats using libertarian language just to destroy government regulation of their industry was always a significant minority within the party -- the brothers actually co-founded the party -- but there was a majority of principled minarchists who sincerely believed that the free market would produce such a surplus that a nation of quadrillionaires would also be a nation without poverty. They were ignorant of history, economics, and human nature, but they were honest. It was a very attractive philosophy for 20-something male elites with no family responsibilities and no contact with real human beings outside their own narrow circle of fellow elites. It felt refreshingly true, and it had the great virtue of every ideology: it swept away the complexities of reality and replaced them with abstract, semantic-logical rational constructions. The greatest minds of the movement, Cato and the Austrians, explicitly stated that checking their assumptions against empirical data was pointless because they were logically airtight and thus had to be true. Not surprisingly, second tier engineers and mathematicians ate it up.

I'm sure untold oceans of these types still exist because we churn out thousands of them on our academic conveyor belts every year. But they certainly no longer seem to be moving into the Libertarian party, or even the libertarian movement. You're right that the party has been purged and is now just a handful of cynical plutes and their many brainwashed pseudo-meritocratic naifs paving the road to their own serfdom.

But it wasn't always so.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

The Sicatoka said:
I could see a hypothetical scenario (game of chicken) where DOJ has something, but something they shouldn't have: If they expose it they nail Trump but show that they themselves break the law and the integrity of the FBI and DOJ is gone forever. If they don't Trump wins.

So, in that scenario, Trump doesn't fold, he calls, and forces the other side to either show their (dealt from the bottom) cards or fold.
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The legalese in such cases AND the fact that one is going after the President of the US...that's the scary part; you have to be SURE, CORRECT, AND LEGAL to have it done.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

IF TRUMP TOWER WAS WIRETAPPED, TRUMP CAN DECLASSIFY THAT RIGHT NOW

According to a report in the BBC, citing unnamed sources, a joint government task force was formed in spring of 2016 to look into an intelligence report from a foreign government that Russian money was somehow coming into the U.S. presidential race. In June the Department of Justice, part of the task force, asked the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court for a warrant to intercept electronic communications by two Russian banks (presumably involving communications with Americans, or else no warrant would be needed).

However, the BBC’s report says, the FISA court turned the application down, something it almost never does. The Justice Department then asked again in July with a more narrowly drawn request, which was again turned down. Justice then made a third request for a warrant on October 15, which was granted.

None of this involves wiretapping Trump Tower. However, it is possible that Trump picked that up from a Breitbart article that in turn relied on a Heat Street piece that claimed the warrant was issued because of evidence of links between a “private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower” and a Russian bank. In fact, the server in question, set up by a marketing company hired by Trump, was physically located in Philadelphia.
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Trump’s Wiretapping Claim Based on Warrants Granted to FBI

Last November, former British MP and openly anti-Trump journalist Louise Mensch reported that the FBI had succeeded in its second request for a FISA warrant, which was later confirmed by the BBC.

Such a warrant would only have been granted if the FBI—not the Obama administration—was able to convince a judge that the Trump campaign had credible links to a foreign power.

The key distinction is that this was an FBI investigation, not an order from the White House itself. Commenting on this morning’s tweets, an Obama spokesman told the New York Times that “no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice.” FBI Director James Comey downplayed the existence of such an investigation at the time, perhaps explaining Trump's having just learned about the efforts.
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

If the Feds Did Wiretap Trump Tower, It’s Not Obama Who Should Worry

That story, “Mark Levin to Congress: Investigate Obama’s ‘Silent Coup’ Vs. Trump,” rehashes comments the titular conservative radio host made Thursday equating the previously reported FISA warrant with a “police state,” and accuses Obama of a politically motivated, covert attempt to undermine Trump and his associates.

It’s unclear just what prompted Levin’s rant, or why Trump glommed onto it. Although no one has confirmed a FISA investigation, or wiretaps in Trump Tower, several news outlets have reported the former’s existence. The most detailed account thus far, from the BBC in January, provided a timeline: The Justice Department sought a FISA warrant in June to intercept communications from two Russian banks suspected of facilitating donations to the Trump campaign. The judge reportedly rejected the warrant, as well as a narrower version sought in July. A new judge granted the order in mid-October, according to the BBC.

None of this necessarily makes Trump’s allegations true. Even if a FISA warrant exists, it does not mean Trump Tower is tapped or that Trump specifically is the target. Further complicating things, the existence of a wiretap would not necessarily confirm the existence of a FISA warrant. Almost half of the building’s 58 floors are dedicated to commercial and office space, and any one of them—not to mention the building’s residents—could be the target of an investigation unrelated to international espionage or election tampering.

“If he has evidence that he was wiretapped without a proper FISA order being sought, that would be a huge scandal, and he should produce whatever evidence he’s got,” says Sanchez. “It’s a pretty serious claim, and it’s striking he would make it without anything solid to back it up.”

Republican Senator Ben Sasse called on the president to clarify his claims, stating that “we are in the midst of a civilization-warping crisis of public trust.” Obama spokesperson Kevin Lewis strongly denied extra-judicial surveillance of any US citizens to Politico in response to the claims..
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If nothing else, Trump’s tweets show he doesn’t understand how the FISA system works. If he did, he may have limited himself to tweeting about Arnold Schwartzenegger quitting The Apprentice this morning.

“While the order would have been requested by some part of the executive branch, Obama can’t order anything. Nor can Trump,” says former NSA lawyer April Doss, who stresses that her comments are based only on public information. “The order has to come from the court, and the court operates independently.”
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Just stop.
 
The President cannot order a wiretap lega... never mind.

And that WANDH fellow is very smart, too smart, in the real ways of politics, government, and the Presidency. Now I must call G. Gordon Liddy.

Signed,
Richard M. Nixon
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

dxmnkd316 said:
Wow. You seem nice.
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When you claim something I post is "the most absurd start to a post I have ever seen on this board" I am not really in a mood to parse my words and say that it was only your post that was moronic and not you. If for a minute you thought I was basing my statement on Trump's record you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about, and that is the basis for what I posted. I'm sorry if my words offended you. The fact remains that presidents have an army of people who will do extra-legal things for them. The idea that a president, especially one of normal intelligence and who has amassed the typical army of plumbers and other such "fact-finders" to get himself elected in the first place has the means to do things like gather intelligence independent of the usual channels, is hardly revolutionary. Nixon was neither the first NOR the last.
 
Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Kepler said:
The concept of the President’s Daily Conspiracy is perfect. I imagine Bannon showing him a cartoon slideshow every morning over eggs and bacon. Just giving the old fool a little booster shot of inanity to start the day.
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When Trump declared, I expected all kinds of goofy shyt because I didn't think his party would take him seriously and because I thought he was in it for the attention, not the job. But I never thought a demented and dangerous charlatan like Bannon would ever be sleeping with the President--even Trump. Just didn't think it was possible.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
The fact remains that presidents have an army of people who will do extra-legal things for them. The idea that a president, especially one of normal intelligence and who has amassed the typical army of plumbers and other such "fact-finders" to get himself elected in the first place has the means to do things like gather intelligence independent of the usual channels, is hardly revolutionary. Nixon was neither the first NOR the last.
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To: Ehrlichman, Haldeman, Mitchell, Dean, Liddy
From: POTUS RMN37
Re: WANDH

How did this fellow get so wise to "the ways" and what are we going to do about it? -- < signed > Dick
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

The Sicatoka said:
The President cannot order a wiretap lega... never mind.

And that WANDH fellow is very smart, too smart, in the real ways of politics, government, and the Presidency. Now I must call G. Gordon Liddy.

Signed,
Richard M. Nixon
Click to expand...

"Well, there you go again".
-Ronald Reagan

You just can't help yourself non-Trump supporter.
 
Slap Shot said:
You just can't help yourself non-Trump supporter.
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How in the bloody < bleep > can pointing out that WANDH is right and that Presidents, all Presidents, "have their ways" be construed as supporting Trump?

If anything, my post proves I'm exactly not what you claim. How? I broke Reagan's First Law: Never speak ill of another R (even Tricky Dick).
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

The Sicatoka said:
How in the bloody < bleep > can pointing out that WANDH is right and that Presidents, all Presidents, "have their ways" be construed as supporting Trump?
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That comment was preceded by this: "The President cannot order a wiretap lega... never mind." which from my chair suggested you believe Obama found a way despite all 3 links I posted that indicate the story is 100% bulls**t.
 
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The Sicatoka said:
How in the bloody < bleep > can pointing out that WANDH is right and that Presidents, all Presidents, "have their ways" be construed as supporting Trump?

If anything, my post proves I'm exactly not what you claim. How? I broke Reagan's First Law: Never speak ill of another R (even Tricky Dick).
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Because for all your talk that it's a 1:250 shot, you keep promoting your conspiracy theory as though it is what actually happened, when it's not supported by any evidence and flies in the face of the old adage, never attribute to malice what can best be explained by stupidity, namely that Trump heard a conspiracy theory on Breitbart and believes it's real.

And somehow, despite all of your independence, once again you support Trump's take on things.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

Sic and NDHockey are some of the strongest evidence I've seen to the ill effects of fracking and poisoning the water. One is promoting bizarre conspiracy theories and the other is operating on the assumption that trump is telling the truth.

Very bizarre.
 
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