POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Tensions were heightening before, but by culminating in a racist pig being president, falling people names, mocking disabled people, etc- discourse is not nearly as possible since so many on the right are emboldened to copy.

I don't disagree that it's much harder now to hold a civil conversation. But I don't think the fact that it's harder means we shouldn't try. I think we should try more.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been persuaded by an argument made that was coupled with personal attacks and insults. Again, I'm not from New York or Boston and maybe that type of arguing is effective there, or elsewhere.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been persuaded by an argument made that was coupled with personal attacks and insults.

True, but I have no problem dishing it back when it goes that way.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been persuaded by an argument made that was coupled with personal attacks and insults. Again, I'm not from New York or Boston and maybe that type of arguing is effective there, or elsewhere.

Nobody's ever been persuaded by an argument. Arguments are about appealing to the previously non-aligned or, more often, about blowing off steam.

We believe what we believe because of our biographies. Our "reasons" are reverse-engineered rationalizations. It's like religion. How do people become religious? Their parents hammer it into them in childhood. Do we feel like we have "good reasons" for our religion? Of course.

Psychology isn't logic, it's vanity and anxiety.

 

[Drew S.]

True, but I have no problem dishing it back when it goes that way.

The way I view it is that I have no control over others behavior, only my own. I can’t imagine telling some random person I’ve never met I wish they would die or something like that. To a large degree I feel bad for that crowd.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

True, but I have no problem dishing it back when it goes that way.

I get that. Honestly, in the short term it feels kind of good whenever I've succumbed to it myself. But that's why people avoid these topics at places like work, because all it takes is one response.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Also, it goes without saying that the security blanket of Internet anonymity goes a long way towards making these arguments go ad hom.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Nobody's ever been persuaded by an argument. Arguments are about appealing to the previously non-aligned or, far often often, about blowing off steam.

We believe what we believe because of our biographies. Our "reasons" are reverse-engineered rationalizations. It's like religion. How do people become religious? Their parents hammer it into them in childhood. Do we feel like we have "good reasons" for our religion? Of course.

Psychology isn't logic, it's vanity and anxiety.

Confirmation bias is extremely difficult to overcome. But it's not impossible.

And nobody's telling me otherwise.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Nobody's ever been persuaded by an argument.

I disagree with that completely. I can't believe that people, even you, haven't been persuaded by an argument made by someone.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Also, it goes without saying that the security blanket of Internet anonymity goes a long way towards making these arguments go ad hom.

That is 100% correct, and it's changing the way people communicate in person.

There was an article in the Minneapolis paper this last weekend about a study, I think maybe in Italy iirc, that concluded Twitter makes people dumber. Now, I tend to think that goes without saying, but it was interesting that someone was actually studying the subject.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

I disagree with that completely. I can't believe that people, even you, haven't been persuaded by an argument made by someone.

We can be convinced by arguments about things we don't give a sh-t about. But generally speaking when listening to our own thoughts we should take them with a mountain of salt. Regardless of how it seems, we didn't put them there. Either somebody put them there before we were old enough to stop them or our insecurities insist upon them being there to protect our egos.

All we can do is be aware of it and try to "step out of ourselves." And the best way to do that is to be with people who think we're full of sh-t, to break the echo effect.

My logic chains make perfect sense to me and yours seems ridiculous, and vice versa. There are two possibilities why. (1) one of us is right and the other is wrong and the wrong person is also too stupid to see they're wrong. (2) We all construct a world, even down to facts, which reinforces the totality of beliefs and desires that make us up. We then stab this out in all directions and call it reality.

(1) is attractive. (2) is probable.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Twitter history is the best history. <a href="https://t.co/i1QRz1AtpN">pic.twitter.com/i1QRz1AtpN</a></p>— Charlie Sykes (@SykesCharlie) <a href="https://twitter.com/SykesCharlie/status/1145480030656565248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Why wasn't I told about "Bring Your Kids to the DMZ Day"?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"> <a href="https://t.co/Xf9OmalmYN">pic.twitter.com/Xf9OmalmYN</a></p>— Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) <a href="https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1145431713222397953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

I also think it's important not to take people you talk to on the Internet too seriously. There seems to be a common "with us or against us" thread with some regular political posters. I think their mental health would benefit from joking around a little more, and pointing fingers a little less.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Ok all of the #unwantedivanka tweets are gold

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Ok all of the #unwantedivanka tweets are gold

In reference to this?

That awkward moment when the smart people are desperately trying not to make eye contact with each other when the dumb person is talking.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

That is 100% correct, and it's changing the way people communicate in person.

There was an article in the Minneapolis paper this last weekend about a study, I think maybe in Italy iirc, that concluded Twitter makes people dumber. Now, I tend to think that goes without saying, but it was interesting that someone was actually studying the subject.

I don't know about dumber, but it definitely makes people more polarized, inflexible, tribal, and caveman-like.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

In reference to this?

That awkward moment when the smart people are desperately trying not to make eye contact with each other when the dumb person is talking.

I think so. Best part is half submissions are real.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WHELP THIS TOOK OFF <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Unwantedivanka?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Unwantedivanka</a>: awkward moment at G20 prompts slew of Trump parodies | Ivanka Trump | The Guardian <a href="https://t.co/MZqIbvtyqI">https://t.co/MZqIbvtyqI</a></p>— Erin *crosstalk* Ryan (@morninggloria) <a href="https://twitter.com/morninggloria/status/1145707119171129344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

I don't know about dumber, but it definitely makes people more polarized, inflexible, tribal, and caveman-like.

Shorter study: conflict makes people aggressive. We organize our adult lives to screen annoying/stupid people out but on social media there they are, in front of us. Social media basically transports us back to high school before you had the power to filter your surroundings and you still had to rub shoulders with terrible people. So you respond... like high school, thinking and acting aggressively. Aggression is fundamentally stupid.

This doesn't happen so much in real life because starting with leaving for college we have organized our lives around getting the f-ck away from the terrible people, and then through peer groups, family, etc, we kept on moving away. It's a rude shock to realize all those losers we left behind are still there, and they have keyboards.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

We can be convinced by arguments about things we don't give a sh-t about. But generally speaking when listening to our own thoughts we should take them with a mountain of salt. Regardless of how it seems, we didn't put them there. Either somebody put them there before we were old enough to stop them or our insecurities insist upon them being there to protect our egos.

All we can do is be aware of it and try to "step out of ourselves." And the best way to do that is to be with people who think we're full of sh-t, to break the echo effect.

My logic chains make perfect sense to me and yours seems ridiculous, and vice versa. There are two possibilities why. (1) one of us is right and the other is wrong and the wrong person is also too stupid to see they're wrong. (2) We all construct a world, even down to facts, which reinforces the totality of beliefs and desires that make us up. We then stab this out in all directions and call it reality.

(1) is attractive. (2) is probable.

Since I find myself in a position where I'm asked to be persuaded by your argument that no one can be persuaded by an argument, I think I'll just go back to work before I get a headache.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

Since I find myself in a position where I'm asked to be persuaded by your argument that no one can be persuaded by an argument, I think I'll just go back to work before I get a headache.

That was my plan all along.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:54: My Polls Are Better Than Your Polls

That is such an over-generalization...I mean that is Faux level BS. I know people who werent raised with religion at all who believe strongly (and tons more the reverse way) so that alone is ridiculous. I know people raised full on liberal that went Con and vice versa. That can't be true if what you post is true. Second, if our beliefs are our beliefs because of biography...why do they change over time and rather consistently? Your basic story doesnt change all that much yet plenty of your ideals could change out of the blue.

What you posted is an over-simplification...the type of tripe written in books that sit next to pop psychology books at the book store. It can be disproven so easily the author usually makes the rounds once on talk shows then is never heard from again.

If course it's an oversimplification. Human life is about tendencies not determinism. Boyle's Law doesn't tell you about specific atoms. I took it for granted you understood that. Just one of my biases.

Plenty of people change religion from their parents. If you liked your parents you continue their religion. If you didn't like your parents or you're a contrarian you switch. If you didn't like your parents AND you're a contrarian you probably stay the same just to be a sh-t.

I'm kidding, of course. Contrarians are smart and therefore are atheists.

The problem with you is you take literal things figuratively and figurative things literally. Like that last sentence for instance.