POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

We have a pretty high gas tax already, IMO. When it comes to taxes, MN always guns for booze, tobacco, and gas. Let's look at other possible areas to tax instead. Our mass transit is not an option for many, realistically. If this were NY or BOS or something? Ok, I could understand a higher gas tax.

You do realize what the gas tax pays for, right? And why we need to raise it, right?

You don’t get to have low taxes and ***** about our transit system or when bridges fall down.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

You do realize what the gas tax pays for, right? And why we need to raise it, right?

You don’t get to have low taxes and ***** about our transit system or when bridges fall down.

Yes, I do (to the first part of the post), and I disagree with raising it that high. As for the mass transit, our mistake was we didn't build it as the city grew way back in the beginning.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

We have a pretty high gas tax already, IMO.

US federal gas tax vs other developed nations:

<img src="https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/global-fuel-tax.gif" >

MN burdening jumps 150% when you add in the state tax:

<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Gas_and_Diesel_taxes.pdf/page1-1200px-Gas_and_Diesel_taxes.pdf.jpg" height="400" >

That 150% would make MN still less than Canada in the top chart, and that doesn't count province taxes if any. That's your gas tax. It's average for the US and very low for the world.

Now factor in that MN gets hit by terrible winters and the wear on infrastructure must be worse than most other US states. You're getting off very easy and that's probably why your roads and bridges are sh-t.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

I'm talking state-specific gas tax, Kep. Try again.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

You must have missed the part where Minnesota is below average then.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

We also talk about the part where you yourself said it would hit the poor the hardest.

Or, we could probably agree on the horrible decisions that were made in the LARS project. What was it, $30MM that has now ballooned to $170MM or so? Even being generous for slight errors in budgeting, $120MM would have done quite a bit for our roads and such. And the NIMBYs delaying the SW Rail Line, which is now costing more that it ever should have. That extra money could have been used, also.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

I'm talking state-specific gas tax, Kep. Try again.

Look below. I have factored everything in.

I hate regressive taxes -- I think all point of sale taxes for non-luxury goods should be zero and we should increase income and property taxes accordingly to make up for shortfalls. But you said your gas taxes are high. That is not a factual statement.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

We also talk about the part where you yourself said it would hit the poor the hardest.

Or, we could probably agree on the horrible decisions that were made in the LARS project. What was it, $30MM that has now ballooned to $170MM or so? Even being generous for slight errors in budgeting, $120MM would have done quite a bit for our roads and such. And the NIMBYs delaying the SW Rail Line, which is now costing more that it ever should have. That extra money could have been used, also.

Do you understand the difference between a project going bad and why we do a project?

Just because LARS sucked doesn’t mean it was a bad decision.

 

[aparch]

We also talk about the part where you yourself said it would hit the poor the hardest.

Or, we could probably agree on the horrible decisions that were made in the LARS project. What was it, $30MM that has now ballooned to $170MM or so? Even being generous for slight errors in budgeting, $120MM would have done quite a bit for our roads and such. And the NIMBYs delaying the SW Rail Line, which is now costing more that it ever should have. That extra money could have been used, also.

Then get a fuel efficient vehicle.

Oh, right, Trump is rolling back that mandate.

Electric vehicles are going to make the gas tax worthless. A diesel tax increase on trucks (long haul especially) might buy some time.

A mileage tax is (currently) too expensive to break down at a state level. What if I travel out of state? Are there exemptions for farm equipment?

An increase in registration/licensing fees will be whined about as a tax on the poor.

There is no good solution other than finding an alternate funding source. Or, raise taxes.

Illinois got their sh** together and made it so transportation funding cannot be used as a slush fund for general budget problems.


Taxes need to be raised. Period. Anyone who's played SimCity (the original, or 2000, maybe 3000 at the latest) knows that taxes need to be raised to pay for everything. You can't keep cutting taxes and maintain the services currently built. Nor can you build new.

And dont try to cheat and use the code for extra money, because that just brings about a plague of natural disasters that wipe your city off the map anyway.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Why not?

Cause he drives a Camaro.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Cause he drives a Camaro.

I drove a Wrangler before, that got MUCH worse mileage, so that point is moot. I also live within 10 miles of my employer, and have done so for the past 15 years or so, hence WHY less gas-efficient vehicles were in my wheelhouse. If I live 20-30 miles away? I guarantee I'd have a different vehicle. Try again.

And the LARS project is a good improvement, but SOMEONE screwed it up bad enough, and didn't listen how to correct it in the first place, which made it worse, and now here we are.

And I'm not against a raise in taxes, I'm against raising it that much (or finding other sources/etc to raise taxes on).

As far as vehicle registration, is there a way to further classify vehicles (maybe there is now, I don't know)? SUV...well a family needs it, probably. Do they really need the luxury Escalade? Could I have gone with a 2 door hatchback instead of a sports car? Raise the registration according to how "above the basic need" it is, according to a defined classification. I would open to discussing that.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Maybe if he gets prison-shower-raped enough times he'll stop: https://www.businessinsider.com/jacob-wohl-election-manipulation-betting-report-2019-5

 

[Slap Shot]

Yes, I do (to the first part of the post), and I disagree with raising it that high.

You can't get one without the other. MN is one of the most livable states in the country when, but it isn't that livable because of Minnesota Nice or because Lutherans throw great potlucks.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

I'm not for the gas tax, but it's better than MI's proposed hike: 45 cents.

That's the only proposal Whitmer had to put forward after the GOP basically said they wouldn't even entertain any other ways to increase road funding.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I drove a Wrangler before, that got MUCH worse mileage, so that point is moot. I also live within 10 miles of my employer, and have done so for the past 15 years or so, hence WHY less gas-efficient vehicles were in my wheelhouse. If I live 20-30 miles away? I guarantee I'd have a different vehicle. Try again.

And the LARS project is a good improvement, but SOMEONE screwed it up bad enough, and didn't listen how to correct it in the first place, which made it worse, and now here we are.

And I'm not against a raise in taxes, I'm against raising it that much (or finding other sources/etc to raise taxes on).

As far as vehicle registration, is there a way to further classify vehicles (maybe there is now, I don't know)? SUV...well a family needs it, probably. Do they really need the luxury Escalade? Could I have gone with a 2 door hatchback instead of a sports car? Raise the registration according to how "above the basic need" it is, according to a defined classification. I would open to discussing that.

Don’t we already do that? Not like WA state, but to a degree. My buddy with a new Audi is getting absolutely reamed on his tabs each year

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Don’t we already do that? Not like WA state, but to a degree. My buddy with a new Audi is getting absolutely reamed on his tabs each year

I know newer vehicles get reamed, I think it's the 5 year cliff dropoff. I'm wondering if we can FURTHER classify that, if it's not already done. If you're buying an Escalade instead of a Kia, you can probably pay more in tax, ya know?

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

I know newer vehicles get reamed, I think it's the 5 year cliff dropoff. I'm wondering if we can FURTHER classify that, if it's not already done. If you're buying an Escalade instead of a Kia, you can probably pay more in tax, ya know?

Yeah, I think in this case his Audi is now 3 years old so I think it’d based off value of car, so the Audi vs Kia would take care of itself there

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Yeah, I think in this case his Audi is now 3 years old so I think it’d based off value of car, so the Audi vs Kia would take care of itself there

Ok, thanks. I figured it was (newness) + (general style/classification), not actual value.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I'm not for the gas tax, but it's better than MI's proposed hike: 45 cents.

Our roads are sh*t and someone has to pay to fix them. Might as well be a use tax. It's certainly better than toll roads.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45:52: Not Founded On Anything

Our roads are sh*t and someone has to pay to fix them. Might as well be a use tax. It's certainly better than toll roads.

That is a fair argument, and while toll roads ARE a MAJOR PITA...it does tax the folks who actually use the roads they are travelling on....