What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Kepler said:
LOL. Maybe a little. :-)

<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D33UrIEW4AAWLGY.png" height="300" >

<img src="https://unbox-seohacker.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Mandarin-Hot-Toys-d.jpg" height ="300" >
Click to expand...

More of the "Assange or Mandarin in Iron Man 3" vibe.

Leaving a police station Thursday:

<img src="https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5cafa8aecf22db330c50fc14-960-480.jpg"/>
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

French Rage said:
Well, you've changed my mind, as those two extreme examples are the only two states that exist in this country. Thank you for taking the time to have a totally sincere debate on the issue.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Sicatoka is right, though. I strongly suspect that proportional assignment of EV by state would help the GOP as long as EV continue to be calculated as they are today. The 2-senator rotten borough system is obviously a gift to the GOP because smaller states are overwhelmingly rural and hence Dumpy, and the small states are where EV warps democracy by bestowing EV on the state apparatus rather than human beings.

The only way proportional assignment of EV would lead to more democratic representation is if Senators no longer counted as EV.

That would be my compromise. Keep the Senate (well... for now) but base EV solely on number of House districts.

In 2016 there were 7 faithless electors. Reassign them according to the election result (we absolutely have to do this to be a serious democratic nation). Hillary lost 5 EV and Dump lost 2 EV the states rejected these rogue electors, so while the official result in 2016 was 304-227, the "real" result, under the old calculation, was 306-232.

Note there are 51 "states" (50 + DC) meaning 102 State EV, which leaves 436 Human EV. Dump won 30 states:

Code: 
     EV  State  Human
R   306     60   246
D   232     42   190

Get rid of the State EV. Based on human beings, Dump still won the election, by 56 EV, rather than 74.

It will take more work to figure out the EV result if states were proportional, and we'd have to have a formal decision rule (at the very least, do you round up or down?).
 
Last edited:
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

FlagDUDE08 said:
Hey Handyman, you just gave me a good idea of how to deal with the invading caravans. Thanks. :)
Click to expand...

Feel free to go to the border with a gun...point it at some border patrol agents too show them who is boss!
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">An update on the corporate takeover of our government:<br><br>An oil lobbyist runs the DOI<br><br>A coal lobbyist runs the EPA<br><br>A pharma exec runs HHS<br><br>A Boeing exec runs DOD<br><br>A billionaire Amway heiress runs DoED<br><br>A private equity kingpin runs Commerce<br><br>A Goldman Sachs exec runs Treasury</p>— Public Citizen (@Public_Citizen) <a href="https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1116438608007843842?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 11, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Flaggy's hero! Between this and Dubya Flaggy is a friggin genius when it comes to Presidents :D
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Kepler said:
I'm pretty sure he's right, though. I strongly suspect that proportional assignment of EV by state would help the GOP as long as EV continue to be calculated as they are today. The 2-senator rotten borough system is obviously a gift to the GOP because smaller states are overwhelmingly rural and hence Dumpy, and the small states are where EV warps democracy by bestowing EV on the state apparatus rather than human beings.

The only way proportional assignment of EV would help democratic representation is if Senators no longer counted as EV.

That would be my compromise. Keep the Senate, yeah, whatever, but base EV solely on number of House districts.

In 2016 Dump won the EC 304-227. There were 7 faithless electors -- if you wipe them out (as we absolutely should) the "real" result was 306-225. Dump won 30 states, which means he got 60 State EV and 246 Human EV. Hillary won 21 (DC counts as a state in this scenario) for 42 State EV and 183 Human EV:

Code: 
     EV  State  Human
R   306   60   246
D   225   42   183
Click to expand...


No he isnt:

Texas

Donald Trump: 52.23% (19)
Hillary Clinton: 43.24% (15)

Proportional makes it closer to what you and the rest of the abolishers want. There is no jiggering with the results EVs are awarded based on percentage in the state. Way more "democratic" and puts less pressure on the swing states and makes way more states relevant.

I am not sure it would have helped Hillary much in the last election (I dont care enough to do the map though I bet someone has) but overall I think it would usually do better for Dems than it does for the GOP. The Cities would hold the most sway and the cities and suburbs are trending to Blue and while obviously some points will be lost in California and NY they will be made up in Florida and Texas. Hell you could use the House win in the midterms as a road map to how to win.

The amount of strategy change this would take alone could make it worth it.
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Handyman said:
No he isnt:

Texas

Donald Trump: 52.23% (19)
Hillary Clinton: 43.24% (15)
Click to expand...

That's one state. So what? I'm pretty sure the net would be pro-GOP, but it's pretty frickin' easy to demonstrate either way by just doing the math state by state.
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

So then do it. His example was two states which I basically offset by 1.

And remember "Pro Big State" /= "Pro Dem" like you Coastals think ;) :p (notice emojis)

If the Dems win the popular vote wouldnt you think this would get us closer to the desired result?
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Kepler said:
That's one state. So what? I'm pretty sure the net would be pro-GOP, but it's pretty frickin' easy to demonstrate either way by just doing the math state by state.
Click to expand...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/election-outcome-other-systems/

click "Proportional" tab and scroll to 2016
Clinton 268, Johnson 2, McMullin 1, Trump 267

this divides all of the electoral votes proportionally, which is not how Maine (and Nebraska) does it. In Maine, 2 EV go to the statewide winner, and then 1 each to the winner of each congressional district
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

270 to win lets you change the map however you choose and see the net results.

https://www.270towin.com/alternative-electoral-college-allocation-methods/?year=2016

Lets you do it for 2012 as well. Kind of fun actually! Truth be told though in the last election every change helps Hillary (not enough to win) and in 2012 every change helps Romney. (not enough to win) I dont think the method favors either.
 
BassAle said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/election-outcome-other-systems/

click "Proportional" tab and scroll to 2016
Clinton 268, Johnson 2, McMullin 1, Trump 267

this divides all of the electoral votes proportionally, which is not how Maine (and Nebraska) does it. In Maine, 2 EV go to the statewide winner, and then 1 each to the winner of each congressional district
Click to expand...

That goes to the House to decide since nobody received 270. How THAT comes out would another PhD thesis worthy event.

In the latter instance (Maine), wouldn't the GOP ha e eon more handily?
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

BassAle said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/election-outcome-other-systems/

click "Proportional" tab and scroll to 2016
Clinton 268, Johnson 2, McMullin 1, Trump 267

this divides all of the electoral votes proportionally, which is not how Maine (and Nebraska) does it. In Maine, 2 EV go to the statewide winner, and then 1 each to the winner of each congressional district
Click to expand...

OH nice one thanks Bassale!
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

BassAle said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/election-outcome-other-systems/

click "Proportional" tab and scroll to 2016
Clinton 268, Johnson 2, McMullin 1, Trump 267

this divides all of the electoral votes proportionally, which is not how Maine (and Nebraska) does it. In Maine, 2 EV go to the statewide winner, and then 1 each to the winner of each congressional district
Click to expand...

Huh. That is really counter-intuitive to me.

If wonder what happens if you get restrict EV to humans and then do it. All the statelets go from 2-1 to 1-0, so that should be a wash.
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

Kepler said:
That's one state. So what? I'm pretty sure the net would be pro-GOP, but it's pretty frickin' easy to demonstrate either way by just doing the math state by state.
Click to expand...

Notice I didn't do the "I'm right dance."
I asked if "Are you sure you like your idea?"
I figured someone would take my two data points and do the whole state by state.

My goal was to make sure it was more than just a cool sounding idea, that it was actually mapped and calculated out.
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

The Sicatoka said:
Notice I didn't do the "I'm right dance."
I asked if "Are you sure you like your idea?"
I figured someone would take my two data points and do the whole state by state.

My goal was to make sure it was more than just a cool sounding idea, that it was actually mapped and calculated out.
Click to expand...

It was and it didnt prove what you think it proved. Proportional helped Hillary and hurt Trump. (also hurt Obama and helped Romney)

But please do your dance. You and Kepler can ignore the actual numbers and pretend you are right! Works for the President :p
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

So Kepler wants “heads I win, tails you lose” :D

Of course if the Dems would call it, they’d play “heads you win, tails I lose” :p
 
Re: POTUS 45:51 - Who is Your Daddy and What Does He do?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Analysis: All the Trump nominees Senate Republicans have tanked <a href="https://t.co/2Qi0P8GMhn">https://t.co/2Qi0P8GMhn</a></p>— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) <a href="https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1116741416925966338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top