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POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

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Handyman said:
Right that is the point. The whole idea wont work and is the wrong solution to a problem that doesnt exist. Fixing Immigration has nothing to do with the border it has to do with a true Path to Citizenship. Fix that first and then you can worry about fixing the border.

Plus, the "Bad Hombres" arent coming from the South, they are coming in via plane and never leaving or coming through Canada. Plenty of illegals living in "Little Odessa" (no that isnt in Texas for those that dont know) who do way worse than the "Bad Hombres" do. No wall or detention center or anything short of a full on closed border for any and all immigration is going to stop that. We know that isnt going to happen.

The truth is, most of the people whining about The Wall (or some derivative of it) arent doing it because they want more secure borders, it is because they dont want Mexicans here period. It isnt about jobs, or National Security or even personal security, it is making sure things are a little less dark. That is why they dont care about White Anchor Babies (a rising trend for Russians) only Latino ones. That is why only the Southern Border matters not the Northern One. That is why "The Caravan" dominates the news but no one talks about other Immigrant criminals. (unless they are Muslim) It isnt an Immigration issue, it is a race one.

And no Sioux, I am not saying it is for you or for you Brent. I think both of you are trying to find a legit solution and that is good cause we need one. The problem is that you are focusing on the wrong thing. No wall, virtual or real, is going to fix Immigration. Find a way to get these immigrants to be productive members of society so they can become citizens and you will solve the issue much cheaper and easier than building a wall, or hiring more agents or making more buildings. The problem is then those citizens will get protections and have jobs, and THAT is what the Wall Crowd doesnt want to see.
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The economy passed a majority of the Wall Crowd by years ago. They decided they would rather whine about it than retrain and move to where the jobs are. That part is on them.
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Brenthoven said:
We need people to actually be willing to work for a dollar, not ones that just expect a paycheck. There is still a stigma on blue collar jobs, and it's sad. Honestly, if one wants to make some real money nowadays, go into HVAC/etc. There's some crazy money to be made there.
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Our friends to the south are generally very hard workers...
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

jerphisch said:
The increased revenue part needs some research. I would guess that a majority of people who come here illegally take jobs at the very bottom of the pay scale, and poor people don't pay much if any in income tax. Those that are here are already paying sales tax and the like. You're still talking about spending a boat load of money to stand up whatever program this would be, and that could do a lot more good elsewhere.
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I admittedly have not done an economic analysis of what the amount of increased revenue would be (if any). However, I did see in an article last night that of the approximately 4.4 million "illegal" immigrants currently paying taxes, they have paid approximately $26 Billion since 2013 (I believe that was the year), yet have received very little actual benefit from their tax contributions.

As stated last night, and this is where Handyman and I apparently agree, one of the main purposes of the proposal was to allow the "illegal" immigrants to become citizens (if they wish) or at least obtain whatever credentials they desire to stay in this country. Another purpose was to have an easy way for new immigrants to come to this country legally. The proposal was meant to "fix" this issue first, and then determine what mechanism (if any) would be necessary to determine how to prevent bad people from coming into the country (and as I have stressed many times, my proposal is not limited to the Southern Border, but some people here consistently overlook that point).

Democrats (of which I am one) tend to criticize Republicans for lacking any real ideas to fix the problems we have in this country. My proposal was an idea to fix a problem (see the above paragraph). I think it is quite simple: (1) Build Immigration Centers at various points that would function similar to Ellis Island (i.e. immigrants could be screened for diseases, criminal backgrounds, terrorist sympathies, etc.). New immigrants would be required to go through the Immigration Centers if they wished to obtain citizenship/work visa/etc. After a certain "clearing period" the immigrants could then enter the country for such purposes; (2) Any "illegal" immigrant currently in the country would be required to either visit an Immigration Center or visit a local Immigration Office within a certain period of time. If they report, they would be eligible for citizenship/work visa/etc. immediately. Their "illegal" status would not be held against them. They would also be required to pay federal/state taxes immediately and could partake in such related benefits immediately; (3) Determine to what extent people are trying to evade Immigration Centers; and (4) Use new tax revenue from former "illegals" and new immigrants to pay for Immigration Centers and implement appropriate mechanism to address (3) (if necessary).
 
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Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Brenthoven said:
Then, again, get them here legally. :)
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Are you that dense? To even imply that people from Mexico or Central America are not working for their tiny living is insane. I'm 100% certain that virtually all of them work an order of magnitude harder than you, and multiple than me. It's nice to have a desk job, as I don't have to break my back harvesting food for me to eat.

The problem with your flippant post is that every single person is afraid of dark skinned people, in spite of the FACT that they work harder than everyone else in the country- the illegal ones handing HUGE economic advantages to the scum that hire then and then turn them in.

It's kind of nice to see dumpy supporters go out of business because they can't get immigrant work.

So to think that there's going to be a huge increase of legal immigrant labor is just being dense. It's never happened, willingly.
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
I admittedly have not done an economic analysis of what the amount of increased revenue would be (if any). However, I did see in an article last night that of the approximately 4.4 million "illegal" immigrants currently paying taxes, they have paid approximately $26 Billion since 2013 (I believe that was the year), yet have received very little actual benefit from their tax contributions.

As stated last night, and this is where Handyman and I apparently agree, one of the main purposes of the proposal was to allow the "illegal" immigrants to become citizens (if they wish) or at least obtain whatever credentials they desire to stay in this country. Another purpose was to have an easy way for new immigrants to come to this country legally. The proposal was meant to "fix" this issue first, and then determine what mechanism (if any) would be necessary to determine how to prevent bad people from coming into the country (and as I have stressed many times, my proposal is not limited to the Southern Border, but some people here consistently overlook that point).

Democrats (of which I am one) tend to criticize Republicans for lacking any real ideas to fix the problems we have in this country. My proposal was an idea to fix a problem (see the above paragraph). I think it is quite simple: (1) Build Immigration Centers at various points that would function similar to Ellis Island (i.e. immigrants could be screened for diseases, criminal backgrounds, terrorist sympathies, etc.). New immigrants would be required to go through the Immigration Centers if they wished to obtain citizenship/work visa/etc. After a certain "clearing period" the immigrants could then enter the country for such purposes; (2) Any "illegal" immigrant currently in the country would be required to either visit an Immigration Center or visit a local Immigration Office within a certain period of time. If they report, they would be eligible for citizenship/work visa/etc. immediately. Their "illegal" status would not be held against them. They would also be required to pay federal/state taxes immediately and could partake in such related benefits immediately; (3) Determine to what extent people are trying to evade Immigration Centers; and (4) Use new tax revenue from former "illegals" and new immigrants to pay for Immigration Centers and implement appropriate mechanism to address (3) (if necessary).
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For the most part, what you want exists. At every port of entry, people can apply to come in legally. The problem is that the amount of people who are being allowed in has been cut off, and the asylum laws are being twisted to prevent anyone from taking legal advantage of our laws on the books.

And the excuse that all of that has been cut off is fear.

Which is the only feeling that it seems that Republicans have.
 
Fighting Sioux 23 said:
My focus was on creating a better path for immigrants to come into the country. My proposal isn't limited to the Southern Border (Indeed, nowhere in my proposal (or any of my other posts on this topic) did I ever state the proposal was limited to the Southern Border). I'm not sure why you would say I focused just on the Southern Border.
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Yeah, walls were so awesome when the Russians built them in Berlin
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

rufus said:
They're trying to. Red Don says it ain't gonna happen.
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And I disagree with Trump in that aspect. As for alfa's post, I don't have a desk job, and I broke my back getting to where I am, so alfa can climb down off of that high horse.
 
Brenthoven said:
You're looking for a compromise to satisfy all parties involved, and that is appreciated. A buddy who immigrated from Ireland a couple years ago, and whose status was in limbo when Trump was elected, was worried. Had an American wife, mgr at a chain restaurant, etc...one of the "good" ones. Got his full citizenship a year later, thankfully. He jumped through all the hoops, took all the tests, etc. Very happy for him. Anyone who does that? Yep, welcome to America.
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Helps that he was white.
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
I admittedly have not done an economic analysis of what the amount of increased revenue would be (if any). However, I did see in an article last night that of the approximately 4.4 million "illegal" immigrants currently paying taxes, they have paid approximately $26 Billion since 2013 (I believe that was the year), yet have received very little actual benefit from their tax contributions.
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That's true, but would mean that giving them citizenship would cost additional money, not bring in more to pay for a wall.
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

rufus said:
Yeah, I hated when those 9/11 hijackers snuck into the US over the Mexican border.

If only there had been something there to stop them.
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Good lord. Nice strawman argument. I'll say it again, if you want to argue with my proposal, at least look at my proposal.
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

jerphisch said:
That's true, but would mean that giving them citizenship would cost additional money, not bring in more to pay for a wall.
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That's a good point. I don't think either of us really know one way or the other whether the proposal would lead to a net positive/negative revenue impact, but it would be interesting to see how the numbers would actually shake out.
 
Fighting Sioux 23 said:
Good lord. Nice strawman argument. I'll say it again, if you want to argue with my proposal, at least look at my proposal.
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I looked at your proposal. We have existing ports of entry like Ellis Island right now. Trump isn't letting people through them. Obama proposed a path toward citizenship. The Repubs were having none of it.

Got any more brilliant ideas?
 
Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

rufus said:
I looked at your proposal. We have existing ports of entry like Ellis Island right now. Trump isn't letting people through them. Obama proposed a path toward citizenship. The Repubs were having none of it.

Got any more brilliant ideas?
Click to expand...

Do you agree with the proposal or not? And if not, what is your proposal?
 
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