POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

[Fighting Sioux 23]

How would drones have helped keep the Saudi terroists out? They have been the worst of the worst.

Otherwise, the rate of criminals is highest with citizens, second with legal immigrants, and lowest with illegal. If we do a Pareto chart for where to put our efforts and how much, one should not be focusing on the lowest effect.

We knew about the Saudis and did nothing.

In my proposal, I would hold off on the mechanism until after the Immigration Centers were in full force, then determine what the need actually is. If there is no need for a mechanism, then no mechanism.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

We still know about them and do nothing. Cheap oil is more important. And that is sad.

And that means there will be a 100% chance that the system will be biased instead of even and correct.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So great that oil prices are falling (thank you President T). Add that, which is like a big Tax Cut, to our other good Economic news. Inflation down (are you listening Fed)!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1066689688600281088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

The truth.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump wants to close our borders to asylum seekers, but apparently, only those of color coming from the south. <a href="https://t.co/p7YSGeU36a">https://t.co/p7YSGeU36a</a></p>— Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1066720329014411264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Correct. It's all about keeping brown people out, and always has been. Hence the lie that there are Muslims in the caravan.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

As I said last night, I would modify my proposal to align the mechanism designed to prevent bad people from coming into the country with the actual threat of such bad people. If there was no such threat, no such mechanism would be needed.

There are a lower percentage of "bad people" in the illegal immigrant community than there are in the community of US citizens. Why not put the resources towards making positive change for US citizens to reduce the number of existing "bad people"? (Which would likely have the same effect on the illegal immigrants here)

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

There are a lower percentage of "bad people" in the illegal immigrant community than there are in the community of US citizens. Why not put the resources towards making positive change for US citizens to reduce the number of existing "bad people"? (Which would likely have the same effect on the illegal immigrants here)

I guess I see it as two separate ideas. The proposal is tied to immigration and therefore the focus is on the "bad people" who may attempt to come into the country (of which, there may be so few bad people that no mechanism is necessary, which is why the mechanism (if any) would be determined after the Immigration Centers are in effect). If states/federal government want to use some of the increased revenue to try to reduce the number of existing "bad people," I would be perfectly okay with that.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

I guess I see it as two separate ideas. The proposal is tied to immigration and therefore the focus is on the "bad people" who may attempt to come into the country (of which, there may be so few bad people that no mechanism is necessary, which is why the mechanism (if any) would be determined after the Immigration Centers are in effect). If states/federal government want to use some of the increased revenue to try to reduce the number of existing "bad people," I would be perfectly okay with that.

The increased revenue part needs some research. I would guess that a majority of people who come here illegally take jobs at the very bottom of the pay scale, and poor people don't pay much if any in income tax. Those that are here are already paying sales tax and the like. You're still talking about spending a boat load of money to stand up whatever program this would be, and that could do a lot more good elsewhere.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

Since the current influx of immigrants (illegal or not) are not reporting, than one cannot say statistically that the majority are not "bad hombres."

Right that is the point. The whole idea wont work and is the wrong solution to a problem that doesnt exist. Fixing Immigration has nothing to do with the border it has to do with a true Path to Citizenship. Fix that first and then you can worry about fixing the border.

Plus, the "Bad Hombres" arent coming from the South, they are coming in via plane and never leaving or coming through Canada. Plenty of illegals living in "Little Odessa" (no that isnt in Texas for those that dont know) who do way worse than the "Bad Hombres" do. No wall or detention center or anything short of a full on closed border for any and all immigration is going to stop that. We know that isnt going to happen.

The truth is, most of the people whining about The Wall (or some derivative of it) arent doing it because they want more secure borders, it is because they dont want Mexicans here period. It isnt about jobs, or National Security or even personal security, it is making sure things are a little less dark. That is why they dont care about White Anchor Babies (a rising trend for Russians) only Latino ones. That is why only the Southern Border matters not the Northern One. That is why "The Caravan" dominates the news but no one talks about other Immigrant criminals. (unless they are Muslim) It isnt an Immigration issue, it is a race one.

And no Sioux, I am not saying it is for you or for you Brent. I think both of you are trying to find a legit solution and that is good cause we need one. The problem is that you are focusing on the wrong thing. No wall, virtual or real, is going to fix Immigration. Find a way to get these immigrants to be productive members of society so they can become citizens and you will solve the issue much cheaper and easier than building a wall, or hiring more agents or making more buildings. The problem is then those citizens will get protections and have jobs, and THAT is what the Wall Crowd doesnt want to see.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

The increased revenue part needs some research. I would guess that a majority of people who come here illegally take jobs at the very bottom of the pay scale, and poor people don't pay much if any in income tax. Those that are here are already paying sales tax and the like. You're still talking about spending a boat load of money to stand up whatever program this would be, and that could do a lot more good elsewhere.

A rising issue is the new "living wage" laws that are being passed across the nation. There are exceptions, sure, but now there are (or will be) quite a bit less of those jobs that no one wants (because of the wages), negating the stance that "only illegals will work those jobs."

And of course, there is still the matter of busting the companies that hire the illegals in the first place.

Handy is correct, that the overall narrative is concentrating on the Latinos/Muslims, while there are quite a few other illegal immigrant nationalities that need attention. Illegal is illegal, no matter what country they sneak in from.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

I love how you pull a number out of your *** to back up your thought, but I need to prove to you a statistically significant number before you would reconsider.

Oh for ****s sake. Do you think over half of the illegals would report right now? They used to, until ICE started deporting them under Trump. Now they have zero incentive to and your plan doesnt help them in any way. (and reporting numbers are down because of it)

I was trying to be nice because I appreciate people with ideas...but if you are going to be a dick just because someone doesnt like your idea then next time I wont hold back.

BTW I dont have to prove my number is correct because I am not stating it as a fact. You are proposing we spend millions to fix a problem that no one has proven actually exists. But fine...I will reword it for you. Unless you can guarantee the majority of illegals would report as you need them to that whole part of your plan is worthless. Under Obama you could have pulled that off MAYBE, in a Post Trump world...not a chance.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

This plan is equivalent to the detective who says to the person of interest, "Look, you aren't under arrest sir, but if you could just come down to the station, we've got a few things we'd like to clear up..."

No thanks, you'd better get a warrant.

This.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So great that oil prices are falling (thank you President T). Add that, which is like a big Tax Cut, to our other good Economic news. Inflation down (are you listening Fed)!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1066689688600281088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tell that to the Stock Market which lost 400 points when prices dropped. Artificially deflating the price of Oil isnt good for the economy it is kicking the can down the road. Ask Dubya...

None of us were suffering when Oil was priced higher than this.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

This.

I think we can safely assume that a plan like this would take a couple years to even get a sniff of fruition. In the meantime, HOPEFULLY the regime changes, and whoever is in office in the future will start re-imaging the stance on immigrants. You said that it MIGHT have been possible under Obama, and that would be correct. Let's start moving back to that, and hope things can work out.

And the trouble with the "get a warrant" equivalent, is that then the people are crying foul about aggressive enforcement, in searching out all the illegals.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

A rising issue is the new "living wage" laws that are being passed across the nation. There are exceptions, sure, but now there are (or will be) quite a bit less of those jobs that no one wants (because of the wages), negating the stance that "only illegals will work those jobs."

And of course, there is still the matter of busting the companies that hire the illegals in the first place.

Handy is correct, that the overall narrative is concentrating on the Latinos/Muslims, while there are quite a few other illegal immigrant nationalities that need attention. Illegal is illegal, no matter what country they sneak in from.

People still don't want the crap jobs if they can get a slightly less crap job for the same pay. See current trucker shortage.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

People still don't want the crap jobs if they can get a slightly less crap job for the same pay. See current trucker shortage.

I am very aware of the trucker shortage, given the industry I'm in. Also, people might take that $15/hr McJob if it's less stressful than the $16/hr job they currently have.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

I am very aware of the trucker shortage, given the industry I'm in. Also, people might take that $15/hr McJob if it's less stressful than the $16/hr job they currently have.

We're beyond full employment, and there are still countless positions to fill. We need people.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

We're beyond full employment, and there are still countless positions to fill. We need people.

**** that. Lock the ****ing door.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

We're beyond full employment, and there are still countless positions to fill. We need people.

We need people to actually be willing to work for a dollar, not ones that just expect a paycheck. There is still a stigma on blue collar jobs, and it's sad. Honestly, if one wants to make some real money nowadays, go into HVAC/etc. There's some crazy money to be made there.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.44: "That's Not Law" said Trump

I think we can safely assume that a plan like this would take a couple years to even get a sniff of fruition. In the meantime, HOPEFULLY the regime changes, and whoever is in office in the future will start re-imaging the stance on immigrants. You said that it MIGHT have been possible under Obama, and that would be correct. Let's start moving back to that, and hope things can work out.

And the trouble with the "get a warrant" equivalent, is that then the people are crying foul about aggressive enforcement, in searching out all the illegals.

It is going to take longer than one Administration to walk this stuff back. Whatever trust had been built up over the years is gone.

The truth is we are never getting the illegals out. We will never come close to finding them all or stopping their entry. Like the War on Drugs...throwing more money at it wont fix it either. So the solution is simple. Amnesty and Path to Citizenship. Offer any illegal that reports the ability to wipe the slate clean on the condition that they begin the process to become a citizen. Set an expiration date like a probationary period. If they fail to reach the next step on the path by then they go bye bye. As long as they keep going forward they can stay. Offer incentives to local businesses to hire these aspiring citizens gainful employment so that they arent shut out in that regard. Make it a long enough process but not so long it is impossible.

You will need a different plan for the people coming after the Amnesty date but the truth is right now we need to help the ones already here first then worry about the rest.